GoodSarmatian
Jokerfied Western Male
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
- Messages
- 9,408
Yeah. Some have. Still, with the nerfs it doesn't look like the number of wonders deserving of that title has significantly increased.
Well, you just posted the three wonders that probably needed a nerf. Gene Vault was built too quickly imo, and its bonus was perhaps slightly overpowered. Ectogenesis pod was definitely overpowered. Xenomalleum was alright, but definitely on the stronger side.
Remember that Beyond Earth is a more expansion-focused game than Civ 5 (one of the reasons why I love BE and disliked Civ 5), so the global bonuses that these wonders provide really scaled up with the size of your empire.
Most of the other changes are quite welcome.
There isn't a Purity game I've played, up to Soyuz, where I didn't get Gene Vault. Ectogenesis is the "most of the time" Wonder (after Gene Vault). Even if not going full Purity, Gene Vault is still extremely handy due to the tech bumping you up with Purity 1 for incredibly durable Explorers early-game.Thanks!
I'd argue the old Gene Vault was the only Wonder that was "really" on a wonder-level powerlevel (as in: so good that you want it most of the time if you can squeeze it in your build order). Ectogenesis Pod acutally wasn't even that great for non-purity players, so I usually skipped that one.
Interesting. Only played the demo and wasn't too impressed.
One thing I did pick up on was ease of expansion, which as you say is a welcome change after Civ5.
What got you hooked ?
Ectogenesis is the "most of the time" Wonder (after Gene Vault).
Chances are you don't get Ecto on Apollo if you don't rush it.
Looking forward to that!I've made a review that I will upload on my channel for my detailed per wonder thoughts.
And it may be even harder to get now, as you can only have 1 trade route from your capital at that time (if the third city hasn't got it's depot yet). But I think it actually was quite well designed - a nice bonus for rushing it (with the off-chance of losing it to an AI) - now it seems like it's just not even worth the investment of getting that tech early anymore, which means it will be a wonder that a random AI will build.Chances are you don't get Ecto on Apollo if you don't rush it.
To be clear: I don't hate the patch, in fact I like everything about it except for the wonders - I think the trade route changes are one of the best things that they've done until now and I also think they did choose very reasonable thresholds for the additional trade routes.WOW. It did not take long for the haters to hate the new patch. I guess you can't please everyone.
But if you disagree with my position about the wonders (or our, as most people seem to agree on the general notion of wonders still being weak/even weaker), feel free to bring counter-arguments. The "First Impressions"-Part of the title is there for a reason.
People wanted wonders that are more awe inspiring and yes, they really did improve some wonders... But what in the name of hell makes them still think at this point that it's a good idea to take 3 of the wonders that have been broadly appreciated (which almost equals the total number of acceptable pre-patch wonders) and make them worse than most of the terrible pre-patch ones. I don't get it. They would have been infinitely worse even without the cost increase. I just don't get it.
I consider Gene Vault fair now. Tacking on additional benefits might help it, but doesn't suit the design.Some are insignificantly worse, but Xenomalleum, Gene Vault and Ectogenesis Pod stick out. They have been butchered.
Well, the Gene Vault and Ectogenesis Pod were very powerful so they probably needed to be nerfed a bit. Unfortunately, it seems that they got nerfed too much.
Wonder balance is a tricky business because it is not always easy to find that sweet spot between overpowered and underpowered.
For me wonders have always been about high risk - high reward. So it's okay to make them strong since you wind up with too many wasted turns if you fail to get the wonder (which can actually cause you to lose the game). Overpowering them is not really that much of an issue (in reasonable extent of course). The better a wonder is, the more likely many players will compete for it. So the one that ignores it can actually be the one with the biggest advantage. (Apart from the player that actually gets it). All in all this provides interesting strategic choices. Useless crap wonders do not. So indroducing turning more wonders into poop is not a clever thing to do from my point of view - no matter the balance considerations. The balance should be in the risk / reward ratio.
But maybe that's where the pproblem starts. Because of the dumb AI, you can any wonder you want. Just one more instance that shows how the problems of this game are connected to each other.