SGOTM 21 - Xteam

Keep up the good work. Stealing MoM will be way better than building it!

It's about time to declare war on Elizabeth.

Does anyone want to pick it up from here?

Or, should I be continuing, after we've decided by which of Elizabeth's Cities we'll drop each of our 21 troops?

Elizabeth has 6 mainland Cities. I'm going to suggest that we target York (south middle with The Apostolic Palace in it) and Canterbury (south-east Coast), then try to capture and hold those Cities until more Military Units arrive.

Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of backup units since we're so low on population points everywhere, but we can scramble to make it happen, such as building and whipping a couple of Longbowmen and maybe even a Knight out of Utrecht, soon whipping a Catapult out of Sleepy Sheep, whipping a Catapult out of Surfin' Turf, whipping our War Elephant out of Hippos, etc.


Elizabeth has these forces:
Horse Archer roaming to the north-west of York
Crossbowman roaming to the north-west of York

An Axeman or a Crossbowman that could leave Nottingham and head for York
A Maceman that could leave London and head for York


A Maceman that could leave Hastings and head for either York or Caturbury


A Maceman to the north of Canterbury
A Horse Archer to the north of Canterbury

A Maceman guarding Elizabeth's Copper to the north-east of Canturbury (that may move if we successfully Sabotage Elizabeth's Copper)
A Longbowman to the north-east of Canterbury

A Horse Archer to the east of Canterbury
A Spearman to the east of Canterbury


What all of these roaming units mean is that we may be best waiting for some of those units to garrison our targeted Cities, so that our siege attacks can damage more defenders, leaving less roaming units to attack us.


Also, York has yucky City Walls, meaning that we'll need 50 / 4 = 13 Bombardments to take down the City Defences.

3 Cats, one with City Raider I + Accuracy (Cat 9) could pretty much strip the City Defences after 3 turns of Bombarding.

But, Cat 9 takes an extra turn to land near York, so it'll probably be 4 turns of Bombarding.


Canterbury's City Defences could be stripped in the span of 3 Bombardments: 20 / 8 = 2.5


One approach could be to hit Caterbury with a larger force, Bombarding for 1 to 2 turns, capturing the City and holding it, then sending our surviving Cats to York.

It would be nice to make use of the Forests, perhaps with Subutai landing on the P For that is 2E of York, to try to bait some of Elizabeth's roaming units to attack us while we have the advantage, with other units landing 1SE of York, out of harms way of Roads that can reach from Hastings to that square.


There's no doubt that our Military forces are quite lean and they're trying to accomplish a lot while we stick to our spending of Gold on Research.


We can also ask Shaka and Mansa to attack the south-west City of Nottingham every turn, to see if they can possibly send something of use (hopefully, Mansa won't just Pillage all of Elizabeth's Seafood Resources)... it looks like Shaka must have already landed troops there and Bombarded at some point.

This http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13788601&postcount=967
is what I've been missing out on, not reading these threads.

All my advisors ever say is

When we bribe E to go into HE and she therefore goes into anarchy for a turn, does the culture defense of her cities go to 0%? If so, then we should consider an amphibious assault the same turn.

Cactus Pete said:

When we bribe E to go into HE and she therefore goes into anarchy for a turn, does the culture defense of her cities go to 0%?

Click to expand...

If only it were that easy! Good idea, but the game doesn't work that way.

What is possible is to spend 604 Espionage Points* in York to cause a City Revolt with a Spy... but, the Spy first has to be stationary in the City for one turn, we must first collect that many Espionage Points against Elizabeth, and there's a chance of failing. Failing can sometimes cause the target AI to hate you by a permanent -1 Diplo point.

On the plus side, if you fail at the Espionage Mission, you get to keep your EPs, but you lose your Spy and probably don't have time to get a new one into place.

Seeing as how we have 0 Espionage-multiplying Buildings, we essentially have to spend Commerce at a 1:1 ratio, so it's not a very cost-effective option given our current empire's status.

* That's the number shown on the Ctrl + e Espionage screen, but its price gets altered by the Spy being stationary for longer. I am not sure if other discounts or cost-increases, such as having one's State Religion in the City when you own the Holy City, having a Trade Route with the City, etc, are factored-in or not, so it could be that after declaring war, we'd lose the 20% Trade Route bonus and that price could go up.


The only other "interesting" thing that I'm considering is trying to spread Judaism in one of Elizabeth's Cities, to see if she'll start spamming that Religion instead of building Military Units like she has been doing with Islam.

It will still be nice to try to get another Religion to Mansa eventually, and we could still fail to spread Judaism at Elizabeth, but it could be worth a shot since our Missionary probably won't be sent to Mansa for a long time anyway.


Since no one seems to want to pick up the game, I'll try to throw together a more-detailed soon and then play from it shortly thereafter, to keep the pace of the game going.

We have less than 2 weeks to go!

PPP

T133, 450 AD

Gift our Warrior to Elizabeth in her Desert Island City

Gift our Jewish Missionary to Elizabeth

Declare war on Elizabeth

QE Galleon
If the square is empty, Subutai and WE 2 will land on the P For that is 2E of York, otherwise, they will land on the P For that is 3E of York, to hopefully get Elizabeth's wandering Maces and Horse Archers to attack our smallest stack when we have the defensive advantage

Cat 5 will unload on the P 1SE of York

Galleon 7 unloads 3 WE on the P 1SE of York

Galleon 4 unloads Spear, Cat, and Horatio on the GH For 1NE of Canterbury

Galleons 3 and 8 unload 3 Cats, 2 HAs, and 1 WE on the GH For 1NE of Canterbury

Galleon 5 moves to SE + E + E of Canterbury

William Galleon unloads 3 WE to the NE of Canterbury, joins up with Galleon 5, takes over Galleon 5's cargo, joins up with a Galleon that unloaded troops near Canterbury, then transfers those troops to said other Galleon


Gems: Whip its Catapult

Surfin' Turf: Build a WE

City 4: 2-pop-whip the Settler

Hippos: 2-pop-whip the War Elephant

Utrecht: Build a Longbowman

T134, 475 AD

Gems: Build Cat

Surfin' Turf: 2-pop-whip the WE

Utrecht: 2-pop-whip the Longbowman

Sleepy Sheep: Should be able to 1-pop-whip the Catapult

The Hague: Build Culture

Bombarding at Canterbury and York

QE Galleon and William Galleon should be picking up:
2 Settlers
1 Confucian Missionary
2 Workers

T135, 500 AD

Attack Canterbury, possibly leaving 1 defender inside of the City and possibly capturing the City

Once the City gets captured, have Galleons ready to transfer troops to the York area

Bombarding at York

The speedy Galleons should be picking up a Military Units (probably a War Elephant) then heading toward Mao's Stone + Marble

The Hague: Build Culture

Looking good!

Best of luck and happy hunting.

For luck:

Link to video.

Don't see any mention of bribing E into HR.

We already bribed her into Hereditary Rule during the last turnset.


OMG. We screwed up. The Great General plan failed. Hard. Majorly hard. I am so sorry. We should have joined the Great General to the QE Galley. Instead, when we upgraded the Galley to a Galleon without an attached Great General, its XP went down to 10.

So, now we have 2 10-XP boats. That's it. Plus, the William one already has a Great General attached to it, so it can only get a max of 10 XP at a time. The QE Galleon, if it survives some fighting, can at least get 20 XP from one additional Great General.

Things were going so well, too. One little stupid mistake.

I guess that we're just going to have to change the plan and have our QE Galleon fight as many of Elizabeth's boats as possible, getting it +20 XP from fighting. If our Galleon dies, we'll have to start again with a Frigate against another AI's boats.

Now I regret not taking the Flanking II Promotion on our QE Galley. Oh well, we'll just have to make the best of the situation.


EDIT: We might as well try to do some fighting now, but fighting would get easier later with an Airship to first would the enemy boats. For now, the fights are about a 98% chance, so we might as well try fighting for now.

Dhoomstriker said:

Things were going so well, too. One little stupid mistake.

Click to expand...

That's Civ for you. Not too worry, always a way to make it up, just not a quick way.

Dhoomstriker said:

I guess that we're just going to have to change the plan and have our QE Galleon fight as many of Elizabeth's boats as possible, getting it +20 XP from fighting. If our Galleon dies, we'll have to start again with a Frigate against another AI's boats.

EDIT: We might as well try to do some fighting now, but fighting would get easier later with an Airship to first would the enemy boats. For now, the fights are about a 98% chance, so we might as well try fighting for now.

Click to expand...

Don't get too far from ports for healing.

leif erikson said:

Don't get too far from ports for healing.

Click to expand...

Yes, we will eventually use Elizabeth's ports against her. It would be nice to have a healer (Woodsman III or Medic I) in such a port, or even have our Chariot 1 with Medic I on it able to "jump onto" the QE Galleon after a fight and jump back off before the next right, on the Desert Island to the south of York.

Playing shortly.

Turnset Report

T133, 450 AD

Military Commander: Despite my better judgment, we gift a Warrior to Elizabeth

Religious Leader: We also gift our Jewish Missionary to Elizabeth in hopes that she will continue to spam Missionaries instead of Military Units

Military Commander: And, war has been declared! Time for some fun!

Ambassador Milquetoast: Dear Shaka, please attack Nottingham

Foreign Advisor: We also ask Mansa to attack London

Military Commander: Our Galleons have unloaded their cargo as per the plan

Religious Leader: With the change of having our QE Galleon fighting, we send our Confucian Missionary and Settler eastward, where the William Galleon and another Galleon can be the ones to carry our 2 boatloads toward Mao

Domestic Advisor: Several Military Units get whipped or start to get built


T134, 475 AD

Military Commander: Elizabeth sends a bunch of her Military Units into Canterbury (south-east City) and her Workers into Hastings (northern City). A Longbowman from Hastings (northern City) is headed south-west to York (AP City)

Head of Intelligence: We've managed to hold control of The Hague for one more turn and we captured one of Shaka's Spies near Utrecht

X King: Mark down another -1 Diplo against Shaka

Religious Leader: Christianity has spread to yet another one of Louis' Cities

Ambassador Milquetoast: Shaka, your assistance is required at Nottingham

Foreign Advisor: Mansa, would you kindly help out at London?

Science Advisor: Mansa has 1 turn remaining on Banking, while we're 2 turns away from Printing Press, which we'll presumably trade to Mansa for Banking

Military Commander: Galleon 6 arrives from the east to pick up our Crossbowman + 2 Settlers. Meanwhile our Galleon 8 arrives from Elizabeth's area to pick up the 2 Workers and the Confucian Missionary

William Galleon: Galleon 5 and I can sail ahead to form a 2-Galleon Galleon chain, speeding up the delivery of our boat-laden units meant for Mao's area

Captain Adama: We win our first fight against one of Elizabeth's Triremes. 9 more fights to go!

Galleon 7: I have picked up Chariot 1 to help with healing Captain Adama next turn and am awaiting a Longbowman from Utrecht, which, with some Galleon-chaining help, can unload inside of Canterbury next turn, should we choose to capture the City next turn

Domestic Advisor: More Whipping of Military Units occurs. Also, Gems City takes back the second Gems Mine so that City 4 can focus on regrowing quickly. We also hire a Priest in Piscatorium with the 8th citizen as we await the completion of the Moai Statues

Foreign Advisor: Louis shows 100 Gold. We really can't afford to pass up on these opportunities to help keep our Science rate going strongly, so we sell him Compass

Religious Leader: Elizabeth took the hint and spread Judaism in London. She has a Hindu Missionary and an Islamic Missionary in that City, so let's hope that she continues the trend by building Jewish Missionaries from there, too

Ambassador Milquetoast: Not surprisingly, Shaka Chopped another Forest in the big fat cross of his City to the south of Utrecht (Ondini)


T135, 500 AD

Foreign Advisor: Mao adopts Bureaucracy. He is busy researching Engineering, so we can wait to trade him Education until after he's shown us a decent amount of Gold available for trade (right now, he only shows 20 Gold available for trade)

Science Advisor: No new techs learned by the AIs except for Banking by Mansa, who has yet to select his next tech. Printing Press will come in next turn for us

Ambassador Milquetoast: Shaka, please send your troops to the Forests of Nottingham!

Foreign Advisor: Mansa, we could use your help at London

Military Commander: Canterbury has quite the defensive force, with 3 Longbowmen, 1 Mace, 1 Spearman, and 1 Horse Archer

X King: Launch the attack!

Military Commander: We lose 2 Catapults and Canterbury is ours! Unfortunately, we only kept the Lighthouse inside of the City, which is rather disappointing, but at least it was the best Building to keep to help the City from shrinking too small

Foreign Advisor: Elizabeth has received a Great Engineer in London. It's not clear what she will do with it, but whatever she does will probably be a good thing for us

Captain Adama: Welcome aboard, Chariot 1! With your Medic I Promotion, we can get ourselves healed 1 turn sooner. Thank you!

Galleon 3: I will move into position to pick up the next Longbowman from Utrecht

William Galleon: With Galleon-chaining at its best, I make my way toward Mao's lands, probably being able to settle on the Marble in 3 turn's time

Galleon 4: From Utrecht to Canterbury in one turn, using Galleon-chaining, we have successfully fortified Canterbury with a Longbowman

Warrior 2: I have arrived in The Hague to help with reducing the chances of a City Revolt!


T136, 520 AD

Military Commander: Mansa has a pair of Caravels, one wounded, who are moving seemingly randomly as a stack near his westernmost City of Niani. Presumably, he fought a Barb Galley and won

Foreign Advisor: Sure enough, Elizabeth built The Spiral Minaret in London. Now, it will only be useful when we are running a State Religion and if we have an Religious Buildings that match up with our State Religion, but it's a decent prize... let's hope that she continues building MoM after that, though

Military Commander: Galleons 6 and 8 load up with troops from Canterbury, set to drop them off by York next turn, for an attempted City capture on T138 or T139. Meanwhile, Galleon 3 picks up a Longbowman and a War Elephant to be unloaded by York next turn, too

Science Advisor: The ongoing war must have made Mansa choose Engineering, so we handily take Banking from him and begin Economics, which can be researched within the span of 4 turns

Foreign Advisor: Not surprisingly, we took a Diplo hit for trading with Mansa from one of the AIs--Mao. We already planned for such a thing to occur, but if we end up with Elizabeth and Mansa as voting buddies, we may or may not even need his votes

Domestic Advisor: The New Amsterdam Cottage idea never really worked, thanks to City 4's large cultural output, so we've switched the G Cottage to a more useful G Riv Farm for New Amsterdam to use

Ambassador Milquetoast: We have 49% ownership of The Hague and the City still lists a 6.72% chance of going into City Revolt... we should earn enough Culture in the City this turn to push us out of danger

X King: It seems that we have run out of plans... it's a good time to take a break and plan for the next round

Link to the REAL saved game

Dhoomstriker said:

Foreign Advisor: Elizabeth has received a Great Engineer in London. It's not clear what she will do with it, but whatever she does will probably be a good thing for us.

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"when we upgraded the Galley to a Galleon without an attached Great General, its XP went down to 10." So, you attached the latest GG to the other galley and then when you upgraded the QE it lost experience? If you had attached the GG to the QE galley, wouldn't it have still lost experience if upgraded? As leif said: "That's Civ." Next play.

Marble City
It probably still makes sense to settle on top of the Marble, so that we can get to work on The Heroic Epic.


Stone City
Since we're going to learn Economics, we aren't going to be able to complete Isabella #2, so perhaps we can forget about putting Forest Chops into Work Boats at Marble City. Thus, maybe it's best for our Workers to initially connect the Stone Resource at Stone City, then head toward Marble City Chop some Forests.

We won't be able to build Confucian Missionaries until we're back in Organized Religion, anyway, unless we want to Chop out a Confucian Monastery. It's probably better just to wait until we're back in Organized Religion and if our Workers are at the Forests before then, they can begin pre-Chopping.


Techs
It will hurt us if Mansa goes into Mercantilism, as we'll lose Mansa's Forest Trade Routes, so if Mansa hasn't switched Civics by the time that we learn Economics, we can consider selling him Economics right away, to hope that he switches to his Favourite Civic of Free Market, which will speed up his tech pace.


Elizabeth's Workers
I think that it's time for an amphibious capture of one of Elizabeth's Workers, 1E of Nottingham. She is Chopping a Forest next to there, so we should lay down the law and prevent her from getting rid of that Forest.


The Apostolic Palace
In 2 turns, we'll see the next resolution, and before our 3rd turn starts, that resolution could get enacted if not voted against or somehow cancelled.

Since Shaka and we are trading with Isabella, the resolution could be to stop trading with Isabella. We should vote "no," and just hope that Shaka will vote to keep his trading open.

Similarly, Elizabeth could propose a resolution to stop the war against Shaka or against Elizabeth. We'd vote "no," in either case. Stopping the war against Shaka would be fine for us. Stopping the war against Elizabeth hopefully won't happen what with all other Members currently being in a war with Elizabeth, but the AIs sometimes do crazy things, so we'll just have to accept the situation if Peace does get enforced.


The Kremlin and The National Epic
Okay, so we want to build The Taj Mahal in Utrecht.

Do we also want to build The Kremlin there?

I'm going to say "no, we cannot dare," as we need either a Great Artist or a Great Engineer from that City and cannot risk getting a Great Spy from The Kremlin.

Thus, we should build The Taj Mahal and The National Epic in Utrecht.

So, where should we put The Kremlin?

Hastings could be one option, since it has several Forests to its name, but it's going to be a while before we'll capture that City, the City would take a while to come out of City Revolt, and it might not come with a Forge.

How about in Hippos?

We'll need Confucianism in Hippos, but it could auto-spread at any time or we could build a Confucian Missionary out of Piscatorium. In fact, perhaps our Caravel 1 should head over to Piscatorium in order to better shuttle Missionaries that get built from there to other areas of the world.

Anyway, back to Hippos:
4 * 24-Hammer Forest Chops
2 * 30-Hammer Forest Chops if we don't mind Chopping the Deer and the Fur just as we're about to complete The Kremlin

4 * 24 + 2 * 30 = 96 + 60 = 156 base Hammers
156 * 2.5 = 390 final Hammers

However, The Kremlin costs 800 final Hammers. Ugh.

Let's say that Hippos will make 12 base Hammers per turn. 12 * 2.5 = 30

800 - 390 = 410

410 / 30 = 14 turns, which takes a while, but is also a somewhat reasonable amount of time to spend to get our Kremlin Wonder.


A war with Shaka would be very bloody and messy, especially since we chose a tech path that doesn't lead toward Cuirassiers for a while, so I don't think that it's reasonable to consider his Cities, even though his Tundra City of Nongoma has 10 big-fat-cross Chops for 300 base Hammers, while 300 * 2.5 = 750 final Hammers

Hmmmmm... we'd anger several AIs by going to war with Shaka, although a limited war with Shaka to steal that City and maybe a couple of other Cities would be a good strategic play if it weren't for the Diplo hits that we would take.

Currently, Louis, Toku, and Mao all like Shaka.

It does seem possible to bribe Louis to attack Shaka before we declared war on Shaka.

Japan cannot be bribed and Mao doesn't see anything that he can gain by attacking Shaka.

But, do we even care if those AIs get a bit angry at us for declaring war on their friend?

Maybe we do care, as it's still up in the air to whether we'll get Mansa's vote, since we'd probably need to build Mansa some Desert Cities and Liberate them to him, but it's not clear when we'll be able to build those Settlers.

Perhaps Piscatorium and Athens could each build a gift Settler for Mansa, and Piscatorium could build a gift Settler for Isabella.

If we don't get such a City settled for Isabella soon, say, 3E of Santiago, her Culture could envelop that square, meaning that we could only get +1 instead of +3 from Mansa for Liberating Cities to him.


We really don't have the resources or the technology to fight both of Shaka and Elizabeth at once, and we don't want Shaka to raze Utrecht just as we're getting close to building The Taj Mahal or getting our Great Person out of that City (one example of what could go wrong in a war with Shaka).

So, I think that we'll just have to accept slow-building The Kremlin in Hippos as the plan.

Also, we'll want a Settler for Isabella (to eventually give her a Hindu City), as well as a Galleon to transport that Settler, followed closely behind by 2 more Settlers for Mansa, probably all coming out of the Piscatorium + Athens area. The Galleon could be one of our existing Galleons, although such a Galleon would take a while to get there, so perhaps the best choice is for us to build a new Galleon... perhaps X-ops builds a Galleon, overflowing Hammers into the Observatory, while Piscatorium builds a Settler, overflow Hammers into Moai, so that we get the best chance of getting a gift City for Isabella on time.


Monasteries
I think that it will still be wise to build a Confucian Monastery in Piscatorium and a Hindu Monastery in The Hague.

We can probably skip building a Jewish one in Piscatorium and can skip building a Christian one in The Hague.

It's still worth building the Buddhist Monastery in New Amsterdam in case we ever need to cater to Isabella temporarily.


Hinduism
It will be nice to spread Hinduism domestically, but we don't want to overdo it and end up with more than 75% of the votes at the end of the game.


Let's assume that near the end of the game, we'll steal all of Shaka's Cities.

Mansa has 15 + 15 + 15 + 3 = 48 votes

Assuming that all AIs minus Shaka will be alive at the end of the game, that's another 6 * 1 = 6 votes

That fact means that given the current City sizes of Mansa's Cities, we could have as many as 54 * 3 = 162 population points where we have Hinduism in our Cities.

That's actually not a lot of Cities... Elizabeth's Cities, counting Canterbury, make up 75 population points.

Add in The Hague and Utrecht and that puts us at 75 + 5 + 4 = 84 population points

So, we probably shouldn't start spamming Hinduism in our Cities. A Hindu Temple in X-ops might be nice, and one in Piscatorium could be good, too, but those might actually be the last two of our core Cities in which we should spread Hinduism, assuming that we are able to score Mansa's vote.

If we can't score Mansa's vote, then we can always spam Hinduism at a later time.

Cactus Pete said:

If you had attached the GG to the QE galley, wouldn't it have still lost experience if upgraded?

Click to expand...

Units with a Great General attached to them do not lose XP. We would have been fine in that case, although we would have only had 1 speedy Galleon, but Elizabeth #1 would have been much more secure than it is now.

That said, we just need to win another 9 98% odds battles without losing any of those battles and we'll be fine.

PPP

Each turn
Ask Mansa to attack London
Ask Shaka to attack Nottingham

Workers overall
Get Pre-Chopping done, build Farms and Windmills for Cities with low Food, pre-build Watermills on Riverside squares

Over time
QE Galleon and Galleon 7 kill of Elizabeth's boats in an attempt to get either one of them up to 30 XP


T136, 520 AD

Our Spies try to Sabotage Elizabeth's Iron and Copper


Galleon 4 unloads a WE and a HA by Nottingham to capture a Worker and scare the other one away from Chopping

Worker 6 Chops into New Amsterdam's Lighthouse

Worker 13 Chops the GH For at The Hague to go into its Hindu Monastery

City 4: Whip the Catapult

Piscatorium: Slow-build Moai and then build Settlers with the increased Hammer output


T137, 540 AD

New Amsterdam: Whip the Lighthouse

The Hague: After completing our Hindu Monastery, build Hindu Missionaries... for X-ops, Piscatorium, then for AI Cities such as our Isabella City, Marble City for Mao, Stone City for Louis, and then additional ones to be used later for Toku and Catherine

Workers at Hippos can pre-Chop Forests, but do not complete any Chops

Send Caravel 1 to the Piscatorium area to deal with shuttling Missionaries back and forth (Buddhist, Confucian, and Hindu)

Send the 2 Warriors from The Hague to X-ops


T138, 560 AD

Vote "No" to whatever AP Resolution gets proposed

Settle a City on top of the Marble

Send the Confucian Missionary to our Marble City and the Workers to our Stone City

Galleon 7 is our backup boat, since it has already fought and earned itself 2 XP (28 XP more to go).

A test game shows that:
Galleon 7 can promote Combat I -> Flanking I -> Flanking II -> Drill I -> Drill II, etc

Galleon 7 should not promote to Combat II, as then we'd only win 1 XP when fighting against a Galley or a Trireme

Combat I gives us 99% odds of winning fights, even better odds than the QE Galleon gets.


It shouldn't actually be too hard to get enough fights in order to earn one of those boats up to 30 XP, since Elizabeth seems to love building boats and hates building Catapults (gotta love her!). The trick is just going to be winning enough of those battles.

So, when is someone else going to have time to put in some turns? I can play forward for a bit longer, to help us to get into a good position in the Elizabeth war, but then perhaps it would be nice to have someone else picking up the game from there.


Ideally, we'll get to settle 3 Cities on Isabella's and Mansa's continent, one for Isabella that we'll keep until near the end of the game that we'll spread Hinduism to, and 2 Desert Cities for Mansa that we can Liberate to him right away for +3 Diplo.

Also, ideally, the war against Elizabeth will go well and we'll capture all of her Cities except for Queen's Palace, then position our troops to recapture her Cities amphibiously after Cease Firing with her and Liberating all of her core Cities back to her for Diplo points, then at some point later repeat the process.

If all of that works out, we probably won't need Mao as a voting buddy. We can still continue to enable Mao and keep open the option of Liberating a bunch of Cities to him either to get him as a voting buddy or just to get him up to Friendly status in order to have another trading partner. Declaring war on Shaka could minorly get in the way of getting on the good side of Mao, but with enough Liberated Cities, we should be able to earn his good regard, if we choose to chase after it.


Isabella shouldn't even need to be attacked.


It may not end up being worth our while to attack Catherine, although the City Capture Gold might help to carry us through our teching goals, so we can leave that option open.


We'll eventually need a gift City for Toku, which we'll spread Hinduism to.


We'll have to remember NOT to beg anything from Louis or Mao, otherwise on the following turn, since we begged GPT, they will cancel the previous GPT begging operation. That is, unless we have a good reason for begging and don't mind losing the GPT.


It's only a matter of a few turns before we capture The Apostolic Palace.


We still have to ensure that we prepare well for our Golden Ages... I think that we'll have to Chop The National Epic inside of Utrecht without the use of Organized Religion but with the use of Marble.

That will mean Granary -> Library -> National Epic in the short run.

Doing so will also help with us getting a Cultural Border expansion in Utretch, giving us another radius level of Culture-covered Forest Chops for The Taj Mahal.


Presumably, we'll attack York -> Nottingham -> London -> Hastings -> Coventry

Doing so will hopefully (as long as Elizabeth doesn't cancel building MoM thanks to that Great Engineer giving her a different Wonder) net us MoM, so that when we learn Communism, we can immediately start an extra-long Golden Age, helping us to finish off research on Nationalism for Chopping The Taj Mahal, also earning us a free Golden Age turn, and giving us plenty of time to generate a Great Prophet (or Great Engineer) and Great Artist (or Great Engineer), then also probably trying for a Great Engineer out of X-ops, possibly getting a useful Great Merchant or semi-useful Great Scientist instead.


After completing The Kremlin, which will be built faster with help from the Golden Age's extra Hammers in Hippos, we can Whip out a ton of Galleons in preparation for having two complete Galleon chains to Catherine's area.


As we build our Musketmen (which must happen before we can build Tanks, as Tanks require Rifling, which also obsoletes Musketmen), we can probably attack Shaka with Airships, Musketmen, and our remaining forces, assuming that we chose not to attack Catherine. Otherwise, we can delay the Shaka war until a bit later, sending everything at Catherine after our Elizabeth war.

We might lack the real-life time for an efficient war against Catherine, though, and building her a Galleon chain is a reasonable option, too.

Turnset Report

T136, 520 AD

Head of Intelligence: Agents 3 and 4 are successful in their missions and Elizabeth is now without a source of metals. We switch EPs back to Mansa

Foreign Advisor: Toku will take either a Gems Resource or a Deer Resource but has nothing to offer, so we gift him one of our multiple Gems that no one else seems to want

Military Commander: We have amphibiously stolen one of Elizabeth's Workers near Nottingham

Domestic Advisor: We have Chopped into The Hague's Hindu Monastery

X King: Do we really want to whip in our Oxford and Moai Cities?

Science Advisor: I would prefer if we didn't

Domestic Advisor: That's fine, but we'll need to bring a Galleon by and Piscatorium should then slow-build Settlers for Mansa's and Isabella's continent

X King: I can live with this compromise

Science Advisor: Good. Whipping away our Cottages in our best Science City is too painful of a thought to consider


T137, 540 AD

Foriegn Advisor: Louis has founded his 12 City of Amiens

Science Advisor: Really? 12 Cities? That guy isn't even Imperalistic!

Military Advisor: It's actually likely that two of our competitors ARE going for Domination Victories, given their large Score and Power values. Fortunately, a lean army can also accomplish wonders

Foreign Advisor: Elizabeth has completed MoM in London, also the City Size has shrunk drastically, from Size 10? to Size 6

Domestic Advisor: I'm sure that it won't take her long to regrow that lost population, though, with 4 Food Resources there

Domestic Advisor: We Whip another Catapult from Sleepy Sheep and queue up a Hindu Missionary in The Hague

Ambassador Milquetoast: Shaka, would you send your troops toward Nottingham, please?

Foreign Advisor: Mansa, don't forget to attack London!

Captain Adama: I'm up to 14 XP now

Head of Intelligence: With The Hague securely in our hands, Agent 2 heads toward Elizabeth's lands

Military Commander: X-ops is running low on Happiness, so we transfer Gems City's Warrior to X-ops

X King: How are things at York looking?

Military Commander: We have dropped off another 7 Military Units there this turn... we just need a way to get our Catapults to the front lines faster and the warring will go much more quickly


T138, 560 AD

Religious Leader: A resolution is proposed to stop the war against Elizabeth. We vote "No" and hope that our warmates have followed suit

Ambassador Milquetoast: Shaka has received a Great Prophet in his capital of Ulundi

Military Commander: Elizabeth appears to have earned a Great General... which is weird, as none of our units were involved in a fight

Foreign Advisor: Louis has received a Great Prophet in Lyons, his Temple of Artemis and Partenon City

Religious Leader: I suppose that those AIs are likely to settle their Great Prophets, lacking Holy Cities and foundable Religions

X King: I wonder if we should regret not letting Shaka Culture-flip The Hague, as he could have built a Holy Shrine there... nah, no regrets

Military Commander: Uh oh. In trying to select the QE Galleon, I noticed that Shaka, despite our best efforts, has landed units beside the Warrior-defended Queen's Palace

X King: Well, we did say that we wanted Shaka and Mansa to avoid getting Mutual Military Struggle points with each other

Ambassaor Milquetoast: May I advise playing off Shaka with a cheap tech such as Paper to Cease Fire with Elizabeth?

Foreign Advisor: Done. Shaka even threw in some Gold

Science Advisor: 2 turns to go on Economics, then onward to Scientific Method and Communism!

Financial Advisor: We'll need to raise funds if we really want to do so quickly, or at least delay the settling of Cities such as Marble and Stone

Domestic Advisor: I don't NEED Marble just yet, but it would be nice to have Marble for the National Epic soon

Financial Advisor: Technically, you only need it 1 turn before the Golden Age, so, 1 turn before learning Communism, then using a bunch of Chops

Domestic Advisor: If our finances are really that tight, I can make sure a plan work

Religious Leader: Without a vote to stop trading with Isabella, we don't really need to spread Buddhism around, so New Amsterdam can build a Galleon instead of a Buddhist Monastery

X King: Good thinking!

Military Commander: The Barb City near Mao has 4 Archers defending it



Domestic Advisor: Utrecht really needs to grow, so now that we have a Granary, we begin to focus on growth

Foreign Advisor: Toku coughs up 3 GPT and we take it with a surplus Deer Resource


T139, 580 AD

Religious Leader: The AP Resolution results are in: Mansa defied, Shaka voted No, and Elizabeth voted Yes. Her votes were insufficient to stop the war against her

Foreign Advisor: Mao has founded 2 Cities! Our opportunities to found a lot of Cities for him may dry up over time



X King: So, what is the advantage of waiting to settle a City such as Marble City?

Foreign Advisor: Consider that prior to State Property, we're going to have very large Distance Maintenance Costs, which are also multiplied by an Inflation factor

Science Advisor: You must keep the coffers full enough for me to keep my research pace high! After we are in State Property, settle as many Cities as you would like!

X King: Well, we should watch for an AI encroaching on our chosen settling locations and obviously settle first

Domestic Advisor: Now that we have a P Farm for New Amsterdam, we work it so that we'll be able to whip a Galleon from there reasonably soon for Piscatorium's Settlers

Religious Leader: Buddhism has spread in Hippos. Also, we have completed our first Hindu Missionary, who can probably join our first Piscatorium Settler to be gifted to Isabella

X King: Aren't we afraid of her spreading Hinduism?

Religious Leader: Not really. Although her single City could grow, we probably want to settle it sooner rather than later, and then it will be costly to keep it, so we'll probably want to gift it to her soon, too

X King: But, what about her spreading Hindusim?

Religious Leader: Oh, yes, I almost forgot about that point. She's running Theocracy, which is her Favourite Civic. So, she'd first have to choose to build a Monastery, which is unlikely to be her first build item. Chances are that Isabella will never spread Hinduism

Military Commander: Later, a Privateer can also park itself outside of her City, keeping it at Size 1

Captain Adama: We have reached 16 XP


T140, 600 AD

Science Advisor: We are the first to Economics and thus we have a Great Merchant for half of our next Golden Age!

Religious Leader: Tokugawa has adopted Organized Religion... which is weird, as he has no State Religion. And yet, we see that he has a Taoist City, which explains the reason

Domestic Advisor: We have delayed Marble City long enough. It must be settled now, as Mao already has a Settler Party about to beat us to settling there!

Financial Advisor: Ouch! Settling there costs us 19 Gold per Turn. But, it had to be done!



Military Commander: We Galleon-chain some much-needed Catapults to the front lines

Religious Leader: Canterbury will starve no matter what we do, so we work several citizen Specialists while building Culture in order to expand the City's Cultural Borders within the span of 1 turn

X King: We'll have to remember to have the citizens work Coast squares again next turn, to avoid further starvation

Domestic Advisor: Surfin' Turf resumes building The Heroic Epic

X King: Would Louis take Marble City and then allow us to trade for one of his 2 Marbles?

Foreign Advisor: Unfortunately, Marble City is too far away from Louis' area to do so. Plus, we'll want to Chop some Forests there into Confucian Missionaries into Mao, remember?

X King: What about Stone City?

Foreign Advisor: It's probably better for us to keep the Incense Resources at Stone City, as we really could use extra Happiness, not to mention the Pig and the possibility of connecting-up Clams

Military Commander: We have captured York, along with a Granary, a Forge, and a Courthouse, all for the low cost of 2 Catapults!

X King: Well, and the precious commodity called time

Military Commander: Yes, we spent that, too

X King: Onward to Nottingham!

Military Commander: Indeed, we've already loaded some troops and Nottingham will soon be in trouble!

Science Advisor: Mansa has a nice pile of 160 Gold which we scoop up in exchange for Economics, unlocking Free Market for him

Foreign Advisor: While it will be to our advantage for Mansa to run Free Market instead of Mercantilism, let's hope that he doesn't ask that we switch to Free Market ourselves, as we will be forced to turn him down


T141, 620 AD

Foreign Advisor: The game asks us to Liberate Marble City to Mao, which is a request that I must turn down

Military Commander: Something tells me that Mao is about to lose his Horse Archer



Foreign Advisor: Mansa has become Louis' Worst Enemy and Mansa still the Worst Enemy of Mao



Science Advisor: Mansa has learned Engineering, but he's not sharing, as he must be building Notre Dame

Military Commander: Most of Elizabeth's boats have been avoiding our boats, but now one Galley seems to be coming our way. Perhaps it is a loaded Galley?

Domestic Advisor: Our Cities really could use an extra source of Happiness

Military Commander: We'll get Spice when we capture Nottingham 2 turns from now

X King: Well, our tech progress has been decent and we're working toward our diplomatic goals. Elizabeth #1 is going to take some care, as we only have a certain number of Elizabeth boats alive, so we should try to only use our QE Galleon and our Combat I Galleon (who should not get a Combat II Promotion otherwise we'll only earn 1 XP per boat kill instead of 2 XPs per boat kill) for fighting against Elizabeth's boats, as her boats are a resource that can run out. We're probably at a point where we can Chop Utrecht's Library this turn and then can start Chopping into the National Epic (it requires a Library before it can be built). The first Hindu Missionary is going to head toward New Amsterdam, to meet up with the Galleon that we'll whip there for use in transporting Piscatorium's Settler to the PH For to the east of Isabella's Cities for our Hindu Gift City to Isabella. Stone City should be delayed for as long as possible by keeping the Settler 1 square west of where we should settle, so as to see any incoming AI Settlers, while leaving us enough movement points to settle on the location with the sign. In the meantime, our Workers can Road the Stone, the square 1S of the sign, and then Incense while we wait for Communism to come in before settling the Stone City location, unless an AI Settler Party forces our hands in settling. It will be very expensive to settle the City before that time, though, so we shouldn't settle the City until we're about to get beaten to founding it. Piscatorium can then continue building Settlers for Liberating 2 Desert Cities to Mansa (there's just barely room to settle 2 Cities for Mansa, as all Cities must be 3 squares away from all other Cities on the same continent). X-ops is probably going to have to whip its Confucian Temple next turn, due to Unhappiness issues. There are troops near Nottingham who are ready to land next to Nottingham next turn while we Bombard one more time, then we can attack the City leading the attack with probably 4 or more Catapults before sending in our other troops. From there, we can either plan to go across land to the City to the north-east of York or to London. The City to the north-east of York could be done by having troops from Nottingham board a Galleon and then unload directly inside of York. We must be certain to leave enough City defenders inside of York... a Combat II WE, a Knight, and a Longbowman, plus a Warrior to act as an additional defender in the small chance of Elizabeth attacking and managing to kill our other units. I'd be tempted to let the Galley near Canterbury go further southward, to see what it does. It seems unlikely to be an assault force, as Shaka was sending multiple stacks of boats when dropping off Military Units and thus it is likely a Settler Party on board, as we did see Elizabeth with a Settler earlier. It would be great if she settled another City for us somewhere. We should not capture the Queen's Palace City. The challenging part is going to be obtaining enough Gold to research our way through Scientific Method + Communism. Once we have those techs, we can launch a Golden Age and we'll be in great shape... the challenge is getting to that point without destroying our economy by settling additional Cities that we cannot afford to keep in the short term.

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