LK59 - Simply Deity

IMHO we may as well continue the war with Russia for another 7 turns and decide then whether or not to bail out into a diplo.

Well if we want Diplo we still want to start a war with Russia more then 7 turns. The world against Russia is our best shot with the UN. If Russia beats us to the internet, then space is very hard to pull off.


With the benefit of hindsight would say that we are paying for leaving the Russians to develop unmolested.
I couldn't agree more. Something in C3C has made the AI more dangerous if they get large.
 
Get some mech-inf armies going! They can pillage Moscow with impunity (and quickly, since they get 3 moves and pillaging doesn't cost movement). The AI won't attack a mech army with anything less than a tank army. We can also use our artillery to bombard out improvements if we can get them somewhere near Moscow. That's how to slow the Internet build, if we can do it in time.

I'd forgotten that Korea hated us, and that we were at war with Sumeria. We need Sumeria's vote; the diplomatic win will hinge on that. (We also need the Mayans but they should be easy.)

We won't lose by space (anyone who remembers RBE2 should know that.) Space is a long way away even for Russia. A loss by culture is certainly possible, though. And war weariness is going to put a big drag on our own space research soon. We might even consider a Communism revolt....?
 
Originally posted by LKendter



With the benefit of hindsight would say that we are paying for leaving the Russians to develop unmolested.
I couldn't agree more. Something in C3C has made the AI more dangerous if they get large.

Excuse the threadjack, but IMO, that "something" is the new corruption settings, especially in 1.15beta. In PTW, there wasn't *that* much difference between a civ with 20 cities and one with 30 cities, because the extra 10 cities would usually be very corrupt. With the new max corruption settings in 1.15, those extra cities contribute much more. This is why I think a number of games are seeing a steamroller effect, where one civ gets into the lead and accelerates away, due to sheer size and power (the Mongols in RBC9 are one good example).
 
As Nad says, and the other change is the removal of the 0.75x cost multiplier when buying a tech. Tech now sells for the full price that it cost to research, meaning that whoever gets into a tech lead first pulls in more and more money from all their rivals.

I think I'm agreed in not liking the new uber-AI dynamic...
 
We might even consider a Communism revolt....?
If we revolt - Monarchy. I really hate pop-rushing Goverments.


A loss by culture is certainly possible, though.
This is exactly why I started the war. It sounds like we got a few culture generating cities, but I suspect Russia still wins within 30 turns. :eek: We must raze a few of the monster cities now and I don't know how we can pull it off.


I think I'm agreed in not liking the new uber-AI dynamic...
I am somewhat inclined to agree. I think game play may need to change some to watch the leader civ sooner. If nothing else, we could have nailed the Russian cities on our island a long time ago.
 
What now? UN or Space? We destroyed their Space Ship
What is their total culture? More important, how much is it growing a turn? Check turn 4 vs. turn 3 for total Russian culture.

At this point that decides the game. The other question is have we even started a space program? Of course, I think a leader could rush Apollo. :)
 
Yay on Moscow! :hammer: Did you capture it to keep the wonders (were there any besides Leonardo's?) or raze it?

Last I saw, we didn't have either Space Flight or Aluminum, so we're a bit of a ways away from Apollo just yet. We've got plenty of production; the limiting factor for space is tech and that will take another 60 turns at least...

If Russia's got space flight (they had a spaceship for us to destroy?!), then I think we should be slipping some cash to a spy right about now... :cool:
 
Well we have Aluminum courtesy of former Russia. :D

As for Space Flight I suspect not...
 
We have aluminum and Space Flight.

Russian Culture:
1555 AD - 61426
1560 AD - 61692 (+266)
1565 AD - 61958 (+266)
1570 AD - 62220 (+266)
1575 AD - 62478 (+258) - no more Moscow
1580 AD - 62709 (+231) - no more Novgorod :mischief:
1585 AD - 63129 (+420) They were in mobilization (and got out of it after peace with Korea)!!

Moscow had the Oracle, The Great Library and Leo.

The rest of the info will follow in the turnlog, but I am still in 1585 AD... The other two SG's have to wait for tomorrow I guess...
 
Next turn is the UN... Should I hold the vote or do you all want to win Space? Which we will surely achieve :D

EDIT: I mean: we showed that we can seriously hurt the biggest power on the earth. We could go on to get a sure Space Race win, but why not end it now when there's nothing 'chicken' about it?
 
IHT: I start with bombarding the radar tower NW of Yaroslavl' (with ships).

-Kill a TOW blocking the route to a wounded infantry on the radar tower, vet tank is redlined
-Vet cavalry can reach the wounded infantry on the radar tower and is redlined. But the radar tower is gone.

Then I decide to move troops into Russian lands and follow T-Hawk's advice: pillage them!! Maya won't talk yet.

IT: No counterattacks except for bombers. We discover Miniaturization and next up is Nuclear Power. Emerita switched to the Internet. The Russians again start the Internet :hmm:

Turn 1 (1560 AD) I sign Peace with Sumeria for Space Flight, 713 gold, 10 gpt, an alliance vs Russia and I throw in Miniaturization. I get an Alliance vs Russia with the Maya for wines.

Our armies pillage a few tiles around Moscow and we move further south. The Radio tower next to Oslo is destroyed.

IT: Four bombers attack our SOD and 5 units approach well-defended. Russia AGAIN starts the Internet :o Lisbon riots, but other cities are OK.

Turn 2 (1565 AD) The radar tower north of Moscow is destroyed with two artillery and a tank. The rest of the stack moves south and prepares for the pillaging of Moscow.

Artillery and ships bombard two MI's in Oslo to one hitpoint. Two elite tanks take Oslo.

IT: Russia takes out two tanks, but those were sacrificed to approach Moscow. Russia and Sumeria start the ..... Internet :lol:

Turn 3 (1570 AD) The SOD pillages all squares directly connecting Moscow to the rest of the empire. Sadly it has an airport.

IT: Again pathetic attacks with airplanes have little to no effect.

Turn 4 (1575 AD) Our artillery stack manages to redline 4 MI's and take 2 hitpoints of others. I lose four tanks and a cavalry army, but we raze Moscow and destroy the Russian Spaceship. It is razed because of culture flip risk AND to please our allies.

IT: Our SOD again is attacked by four bombers and is now in fact hurting a bit. 9 units are sent on a mountain near our SOD, but they don't dare to attack. Sumeria again starts the Internet. Russia does not :p

Turn 5 (1580 AD) The SOD goes for Novgorod and then will strategically retreat to heal.

-All units in Novogrod are redlined, the city is reduced to size 9.
-Vet tank kills redlined MI (3x)
-Vet tank kills redlined TOW and we take Novgorod

IT: Russia and Korea sign peace. Russia manages to kill three of our heroic tanks.
We build the Internet.

Turn 6 (1585 AD) Orique founded between former Moscow and Novgorod, which I now abandon. Barracks rushed in Orique.
Artillery wounds the forces that approached us and tanks/MI's do the rest.

IT: The Russians land two MI's and 2 settlers next to our airbase. Orique finishes barracks and rushes temple.

Turn 7 (1590 AD) Russian culture is 63345 (+216-again mobilized??)

-4 MI's and a marine in Yaroslavl' redlined and the city is reduced to size 11. Without radio towers artillery is VERY strong :D
-3 elite tanks kills 3 MI's, no promotion
-1 vet tank kills a MI

-1 vet tank kills a MI and I raze Yaroslavl'

The two MI's are first bombarded and then killed by two vet tanks. Orique was built with a Russian settler :o

IT: I decide to hold a vote and...



The Victory Screen:



The Historgraph:


pre-win save

I went for the UN... We were getting the upperhand and would have won either by Space, Domination or UN. This was the shortest route to the inevitable :D
 
I went for the UN... We were getting the upperhand and would have won either by Space, Domination or UN. This was the shortest route to the inevitable

:hmm: Well I can never agrue with a win. However with getting the upper hand I would have preferred one of the other choices.

Now to get a few games with a good win. Nothing will ever change my opinion that UN is a "cheap" victory.
 
Good and tight game folks.

Grimjack
 
Originally posted by LKendter
Now to get a few games with a good win. Nothing will ever change my opinion that UN is a "cheap" victory.

I know, I would have skipped the vote when we would still have a true fight before us. But the fact that Moscow and two other metros of the Russians fell in 7turns suggests that the Russians where gassed. I swiftly checked the first page to see what restrcitions the game had (it appeared to be none) and then went for the vote. Another reason was that I had two other SG's to play and I didn't want to wait too long for a reply from the others. Sorry :blush:

EDIT: Just as extra info: the Russians lacked Aluminum and Oil. Both are very essential to stay alive! They only could build TOW's and those are no match vs tanks/artillery/mI's.
 
:goodjob: on the UN victory from me. It wasn't just a matter of "upper hand" - the game's outcome was decided. We weren't going to lose by space, diplomacy, or military. The only danger was Russia's culture, and we proved we could handle that. Anything more would've been going through the motions for no real purpose. If anyone wants to play out more of the war, grab the save and go right ahead, but I have no plans to. :D

Good game, all. Any win from a semi-cramped Deity start with only one on-continent neighbor is good. And especially with a civ whose traits were basically useless from the middle ages onwards. :goodjob:
 
I don't value a Space win any more highly than UN personally.
On deity I think a 20K win is the ultimate, and I am yet to read of anyone doing it. 100Ks are next (which have been done, but not by me) followed by military then the others.

You have to say that Aggie played the last turns beautifully, and the UN win was a great result, hard fought and well won.

Good game guys.
 
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