Military Department - Term 1

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one thing I must add, we won't be able to whip in Pherris for a while (It's only size one at the moment). I'm not in the game anymore, so I can't tell you how many more turns till we could whip the Barracks in place. But, the plan of most was to let the Barracks build then whip in the following Library, allowing it to grow and become a more effective Soldier factory.
 
Phoenatica 1125 BC -- War with the Babylonians - Military Dept. Report

OpSit: AT WAR, With Babylon.
BARBARIAN Horde near Fox Nest ! (Circassians, says my Mil Advisor)

Army: 14 Warriors (13 reg, one vet). 1 reg Spearman, 3 workers.
Of those, 1 is pure scout, 1 is scouting but nearby, 1 stuck in America.
Military strength: 'Weak' compared to Babs, avg or weak to all others.
18 units, out of 28 allowed (Weak compared to India? Bah)
Given our food situation and LOUSY starting area, this isn't bad!
Units in production: 0 military. 1 settler.

Progress:
TWO cities with iron access founded :hammer:
Barracks in progress, due in 5, 11 and 13/25
** Pherris was founded in the WRONG spot and will delay war for about 6
extra turns. ** (If this was Eyrei's decision, it's his call, but this
was *NOT* the spot discussed in forums! A strong request here was made
for one square SW of where it now stands. The lack of the flood plains
has slowed the city growth to a crawl, the overlap with PDX is bad,
and our long term food situation is worse, picking up more unneeded
mountains)

Yet to do... (only ten turns since last time, so decent progress made)
No iron connected. (Very soon, to Pherris)
No barracks (due in 5, 11 and 13)
Not much defense.
No attacker stronger than a warrior.
Lack horseback riding, down about 5 techs overall. (None 'crucial')
Build more warriors (Why is Eyr on temple?? Expansion gets it nothing.
Shailo's temple was a good call, allowing it to grow)

Cities sites to consider:
4) Coastal hill south of horses, SE of Fox Next. It's got coast, horses,
two spice, two fish, and two gold (!!) KEY KEY
3) Not a bad spot: The plain grassland near Khatova (2 SE then 2 South)
which has fresh water, a wheat, iron, and gold, all within city limits.
Distance to capital is 9. The hill one NE is good too, missing the wheat)
Decreased priority due to founding of #5, Civinator.
New) Coastal horse city NW of capital
Washington, NY and Philly! :hammer:

Alliances:
We almost SURELY want to form an alliance with either Rome or Greece vs
Babylons. This will let us pursue our goals against America, will get them
in friend mode so if the other of the two attacks, we bring them in to that
war as well. Why them? Close neighbors, so having them on OUR side helps alot
to prevent a two front war later. Also with their UU's, they are *not* on the
ancient era conquest list. Also, war for them slows down their expansion up
toward Fox Nest :P

This alliance may NOT be cheap 8-\ I leave the choice of WHICH civ up to
Foreign affairs, and the prices may not be the same. They are equivalently
good in my mind. I trust Alex less, but Caesar is mildly annoyed at present
(the embassy itself might clear that up)

Military Objective:
This is now MUCH clearer in my mind! And very specific:
America- cities of Washington, New York and Philadelphia, then extort peace
for all their techs. If they don't give in, take San Fran or Boston,
but don't press on for their extermination (yet).

Why?
- These cities are *PRIME* sites, just wonderful land. If we started in that
land, we might have conquered a civ by now :P
- AI's tend to be ready to knuckle under once you take 3 cities
- The loss of those three would absolutely cripple Abe. We can take our times
finishing him off, and turn to more pressing threats.
- We are *WEAK* militarily, and need to get back to infrastructure and army
build up to stage a second 'cripple' campaign before the middle ages get
going.
- Those three cities are rather near our border. We can declare honestly,
march up, and crush those cities. That stack of 8 immortals will eat up
whatever they have, hands down.
- The best unit we know Abe has is warrior
- We take their iron AND horse supply with these cities.
- That clown has a settler right near PDX, I sense a settlement very soon

Call for feedback! We have two tactical choices - go for 'surprise' and
blitz attack and walk up to DC, NY, Philly, all in the same turn, with
3 stacks of 3. This would give us the element of surprise and there would
be no time at all for Abe to mount a defense. Plan 'B' is to send the Immortals
in as a "stack of doom", 8+ units (6 at a min, 9 is even better)
Because the borders of Philly and NY are *so* thin right now, it's just one
step from neutral land and war declaration to being on a forest (Philly) and
mountaintop (NY) for capture on the very next turn. DC is a little more territory
to cross before engaging.

CITIZENS! Post feedback and thoughts in the "War Church" Thread please!
There are going to be a ton of comments, I expect, and need to keep this
thread fairly clean. Thanks in advance!

Specific recommendations
_ **TURN THE CITY GOVERNOR OFF** It's on (again) in Pherris, Civinator, Eyr!
- Switch Shailo's citizen from fish to grassfield-mine
- Get a warrior near PDX back inside the city NOW :P (already planned no doubt)
- Buy (not trade) territory map with Abe. Do NOT give world map, or gpt.
Territory map would get sold around to the world, so see if a small cash
gold sum will buy it
- Found '4' ASAP (with the Khatovar settler)
- Get #units up to #allowed, as vets and workers, asap.
- Establish embassy with Greece and/or Rome to allow next action
- Ally with Greece OR Rome vs Babs.
*** IF cost is too high, such that we don't have at LEAST 240 hard cash
leftover, we can't do this. We MUST have 240 to 320 gold for immortal
upgrades or we can kiss goodbye this window of war.
- After Pherris barracks up and 8 immortals trained, move them into
position outside Philly and NY, in neutral territory, and declare war.
This will be *14-17* turns from now :( (So slow in fact,
we may end up seeing Babylon arrive at our door first :P )
- Note we MAY be overrun by barbs in the capital. Consider switching Eyr to spear
- DO NOT CHANGE CITY FOUNDING SITES to be something totally undiscussed in
the forums!!! Pherris' location will cause a very undesired delay in the
beginning of the war vs America, and a delay in when Immortals come available.

General Charis
 
Originally posted by Charis
.

Progress:
TWO cities with iron access founded :hammer:
Barracks in progress, due in 5, 11 and 13/25
** Pherris was founded in the WRONG spot and will delay war for about 6
extra turns. ** (If this was Eyrei's decision, it's his call, but this
was *NOT* the spot discussed in forums! A strong request here was made
for one square SW of where it now stands. The lack of the flood plains
has slowed the city growth to a crawl, the overlap with PDX is bad,
and our long term food situation is worse, picking up more unneeded
mountains)



I apologize. However, though it was my decision, I had to be convinced. Everyone else at the chat agreed it was a good decision, so I went along.

Here is the section of the chat:

"<Falcon02> the settler se of Shail.. goes one square se, and then settle
[17:18] <eyrei> the settler we already have will move one tile se and then ubild
[17:18] <_me_> hello
[17:18] <eyrei> yep
[17:19] <_me_> It is Ohwell
[17:19] <Falcon02> the NEW settler goes to the "valley" near the dye in the east
[17:19] <eyrei> hi
[17:19] <eyrei> glad you made it
[17:19] <eyrei> about to start
[17:19] *** greyfox has joined #civfanatics
[17:19] <_me_> np
[17:19] <greyfox> damn...
[17:19] <_me_> didn't know we were playing
[17:19] <_me_> jheh
[17:19] <eyrei> what, fox?
[17:20] *** _me_ is now known as Ohwell
[17:20] <greyfox> I was disconnected
[17:20] <eyrei> this could get ugly if that keeps happening
[17:20] <greyfox> My OP login is still in
[17:20] <eyrei> hmmm
[17:20] <eyrei> lets start
[17:20] *** chiefpaco has left #civfanatics
[17:20] <greyfox> I'm in and ready to click next turn
[17:21] <eyrei> go
[17:22] <greyfox> What should the city be called? And it should be built where it's located right?
[17:22] <Ohwell> Ohwellia
[17:22] <Ohwell> ;)
[17:22] <Falcon02> no don't place it yet
[17:22] <Falcon02> needs to go one square SE
[17:22] <eyrei> no, move it one tile se
[17:22] <Immortal__> its sikes choice I think
[17:22] <greyfox> Then it won't be on the river
[17:22] <Ohwell> um move it on the river
[17:22] <eyrei> charis wants to call it Bueller or soemthing
[17:22] <Justus_II> Pherris Bueller
[17:22] <greyfox> The city should be on the river
[17:23] <eyrei> yeah
[17:23] <Ohwell> Once I become militay advisor I will win the love of the poeple :)
[17:23] <eyrei> it won't make pop 7 in that spot anyway
[17:23] <Falcon02> it will get the flood plain
[17:23] <Ohwell> ANd they will name a city after me
[17:23] <Falcon02> that was part of the reason we ended it then
[17:23] <eyrei> one flood plain will not make it need the river
[17:23] <Falcon02> to discuss it
[17:23] <eyrei> yep
[17:24] <Justus_II> But the river also gives it a commerce bonuse
[17:24] <Falcon02> and we came to the decision that we should move it SE
[17:24] <eyrei> only +1 gold
[17:24] <Falcon02> I have to go for a bit, Not sure how long it will take
[17:24] <eyrei> not worth losing another floodplain
[17:24] <eyrei> alright
[17:24] <greyfox> if moved it will be hard to place more cities in the area
[17:24] <eyrei> we gain two more floodplains if we move it.
[17:24] *** Falcon02 has quit IRC (QUIT: User exited)
[17:25] <Immortal__> more disease as well though
[17:25] <greyfox> Immortal: only if on the floodplain
[17:25] *** theGreyFox has quit IRC (Ping Timeout)
[17:25] <Immortal__> true, oops
[17:25] <eyrei> we only need two more cities in the area
[17:25] <eyrei> it will be fine
[17:25] <greyfox> maybe to the East? River and two Floodplains
[17:26] <eyrei> maybe....
[17:26] *** greyfox is now known as theGreyFox
[17:26] *** Guest62450 has joined #civfanatics
[17:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o theGreyFox
[17:26] *** Guest62450 is now known as Falcon02
[17:26] <eyrei> then another city on the hill towards foxs nest
[17:27] <theGreyFox> yeah... when to get the Incense though?
[17:27] <eyrei> we alreday have incense in shail
[17:27] * Falcon02 is back only to keep tabs on what happens
[17:27] <Falcon02> while away
[17:27] <sike> it wil, come
[17:27] <eyrei> another city on the hill with the road near the incnese
[17:28] <eyrei> i say one square east
[17:28] <theGreyFox> Yeah, but that will take time... Not the best place...
[17:28] <sike> good. get the flood plains
[17:28] <theGreyFox> Yeah I think East is the best option
[17:28] <eyrei> what will take time?
[17:28] <eyrei> east it is then
[17:28] <Justus_II> if we go east, will it still be adjacent to the iron?
[17:28] <theGreyFox> To get the Incense within our borders
[17:28] <eyrei> we will need a colony or a temple
[17:28] <Justus_II> I thought Charis wanted to build it to connect to the iron without a temple
[17:28] <eyrei> we already have incense, it can wait
[17:29] <theGreyFox> Yeah we will have the Iron inside the borders without the need of a temple
[17:29] <Justus_II> because we need to build a barracks right away
[17:29] <Justus_II> Oh, will it connect?"

As you can see, I actually argued for your chosen placement, but eventually was swayed. In the long run, this is probably a better placement for the empire as a whole, but I do now see the reasons it is debatable for the short term.
 
Always a pleasure to read your postings Charis. You are upfront and direct in your approach to a strong nation. I would like to ask if this thread is now for the department heads mainly to discuss department level business, or has that been decided yet? I would like to respond on an official level and i'm not sure this is the place (maybe).

@Eyrei, thank you for posting that brief slice of life logged during the last chat session. It proves my point. Way too much chaos. We had three diferrent conversations going at once, Ohwell's wandering in looking for a friend, we placed a city using a disorganized, hodge-podge manner, and it all took place in 11 seconds. Not to mention that gf said he was ready to start the game by pressing next turn - we saved with the settler/warrior still having a move. Although i hate all the massive cut and paste i see in these threads, that was a good one.
 
I hesitate to post here because I think it is important to keep these threads clean but...

... regarding the chat room. What's the rush to make a descision in 11 seconds? I'm new to chat rooms but it seems in their nature to have more than one conversation going on at once with everyone 'talking' at the same time. Perhaps the powers that be should slow down when playing the game. Restricting themselves to the constitutional 10 turns every other day should help.

I would hate to see a move towards restricting access to the chat room. That would not be a way to involve more citizens!
 
why doesnt the cabinet+deputys use a moderated chat? the op can do this any time with an irc client. with this only the department-speakers (minister or deputy) are allowed to speak.

the one with the game going is the moderator (normale the pres or vpres), so everyone shuts up till he asks something. and he has to ask each department one after another, THEN, when all spoke their points, its time for discussion. after a conclusion in the cabinet, the moderator makes the turn, speaks out the results and so on.

there should be open discussions with the civs before and/or after the turn, but not IN the turn.

also there should be ONE dedicated speaker for each department in the turn, maybe one other standby if the first falls away (like it happened to GF). maybe we should open a 2nd chat-channel, for public talk and discussion during the turn?
there should also be not only one OP, but minimum 2 (pres+VP)

[and dont forget someone, better 2, should log!]
 
Originally posted by eyrei


We sold iron working to the romans because they were going to get it from someone else on the next turn, because everyone else had it. ... I realize now that I probably should not have traded iron working according to the trade department.

Mr. Vice Prez, the trade department (me) was present during that last trade of Iron Working and did endorse it for the reasons you stated, that being the Roman's were going to get it anyway as every other known civ had the tech.

Your bigger point is correct, reps during live chat are ideal, however that will be hard for many of us given the global nature of this game.

Bill
Trade Leader
 
Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
We'll need to coordinate with the Foreign Leader and Trade Leader then. Exchange territorial maps? It'll definitely help a lot in the military preparations.


I am opposed to trading our territorial map while our military is weak. I fear it invites invasion.

I would favor buying maps from other civ's for none-leathal techs.

Bill
Trade Leader
 
Roger that Bill_in_PDX!

I've specifically requested we *NOT* sell our map, territory or world, to anyone, but to BUY the American territory map. Once we have at an absolute minimum a spear in every city, we can freely trade/sell our maps.

Thanks :D
General Charis
 
So what's now?
 
What now is we stop spamming this thread! (The President is more likely to miss important points when the thread is cluttered)

Ooops... that didn't quite come across right. If you check at the top of the current page you'll see the specific recommendations from the Military Dept to the President.

I'll repaste here:

Specific recommendations from the Military Dept for today's turn:
- **TURN THE CITY GOVERNOR OFF** It's on (again) in Pherris, Civanator, Eyr!
- Switch Shailo's citizen from fish to grassfield-mine
- Get a warrior near PDX back inside the city NOW :P (already planned no doubt)
- Buy (not trade) territory map with Abe. Do NOT give world map, or gpt.
Territory map would get sold around to the world, so see if a small cash
gold sum will buy it
- Found '4' ASAP (with the Khatovar settler)
- Get #units up to #allowed, as vets and workers, asap.
- Establish embassy with Greece and/or Rome to allow next action
- Ally with Greece OR Rome vs Babs.
*** IF cost is too high, such that we don't have at LEAST 240 hard cash
leftover, we can't do this. We MUST have 240 to 320 gold for immortal
upgrades or we can kiss goodbye this window of war.
- After Pherris barracks up and 8 immortals trained, move them into
position outside Philly and NY, in neutral territory, and declare war.
This will be *14-17* turns from now (So slow in fact,
we may end up seeing Babylon arrive at our door first :P )
- Note we MAY be overrun by barbs in the capital. Consider switching Eyr to spear

- (New) We have no problem with switching Shailo to settler if that is what the other departments want

Also, to answer 'what now' -- I think the game turn is tonight, so join the chat if you're free. 22-23 GMT, more or less.

General Charis
 
Originally posted by Charis

- (New) We have no problem with switching Shailo to settler if that is what the other departments want


General Charis

One of us is confused, I think. We have been discussing switching Eyr to settler and Shailo to a spearman.
 
Pai Check!

Oh why did I have the Governors on? I usually don't use them... hmm... (I hope you don't mean the Queue's I have made in the cities.)

The Grassland Mine won't do any good. (The Extra shield went to Waste if I remembered correctly...)

The Warriors will be returned to PDX, they are just out on a Blocking Mission.

Maps will be bought, if the price is right. And I will not sell ours (don't think we'll get much for them anyway).

I want more spears myself, I'll see what I can do.


/The President
 
Originally posted by Bill_in_PDX


Your bigger point is correct, reps during live chat are ideal, however that will be hard for many of us given the global nature of this game.

Yes good point. The decisions should be made by forums only. However as we don't want to slow the game down (making it very frustrating), I believe that the Pres' should look at the overview of the thread when it is only about 1 day old and then make his decision. Somebody should make a poll for this.;)
 
Does the military departyment agree with the 'presidents' decision about declaring war with babylon.
 
Originally posted by russia1292000
Does the military departyment agree with the 'presidents' decision about declaring war with babylon.

Babylon declared war on us.
 
babolon declared war on us because we refuced to allow peace by giving them a world map.
 
Originally posted by russia1292000
babolon declared war on us because we refuced to allow peace by giving them a world map.

We had no reason to give in that threat. We certainly did not want our territory map published.
 
THe president could bend his power any way he wants in the future. We may have many "DEFENSIVE" wars
 
One of us is confused, I think. We have been discussing switching Eyr to settler and Shailo to a spearman.

That would be ME! :crazyeye:

Got the city name wrong, just saying the settler idea is more productive than another barracks at this time. Tnx.

Grey - do check the grassland mine. There is a city, I think the one mentioned, where an extra shield is available for free, or... there was a city with a shield tile chosen which was just corrupt and it could be switched to another tile for more gold. Can't load the game at work and can't be more specific, sorry. (I think it's the case there is an extra shield to be had)

"Blocking mission?" Ah, I love those :P
One thing I've noticed though, if you have a city flat out "empty", it's very much encouraging to other civs 'on the fence' of declaring war with you to plan an attack or demand tribute. It would be interesting if the tribute demand came right after emptying out of that city.

Charis
 
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