Conquerors Event

Is it just me or is this event getting more and more powerful.

I was playing as the Dutch and I got all three conqueror events getting 2 cannons 2 knight a musketman and 2 pikemen all three times.

I wasn't even trying to reach the techs required particularly quickly.

The Aztecs/Maya/Inca stood absolutely no chance.

My army in the new world was literally 10 times bigger/more powerful than my oldworld one.

I hadnt even managed to build Knights/Musketmen or Cannon myself.

I think it did require some skill and luck for Cortes to take Mexico, it was more like he took the capital just and then the rest of the country vassaled to him. And if he hadnt taken Mexico the Spanish could not have attacked the Incas.

Maybe you could make it so the New World Civ capitulate easily (which they do already to be fair).

Or maybe you should be given like 1 knight/canon and the rest of the units should be quecha, holkan and jaguars. Both Cortes and Pizzarro made much use of Native troops and allies. Also the amount of troops used in the New World wars of conquest was small in comparison to the Old world.

The thing is after getting the 3 conquerors event I went from being one of the least military powerful nations to one of the most and this seems unbalanced.

Another possibility is the number of troops your gifted is linked to your total military power. Therefore if you go early without building up a large army you only get a small amount of troops.

Which seems reasonable to me as the Inca/Aztec/Maya will also be less powerful at this point.

I have a different problem, The Conquerors event happens only when I'm the conqueror or the conquered. I have tons of games with Aztec becoming a superpower with all of South-East USA.

scu98rkr said:

Another possibility is the number of troops your gifted is linked to your total military power. Therefore if you go early without building up a large army you only get a small amount of troops.

Which seems reasonable to me as the Inca/Aztec/Maya will also be less powerful at this point.

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I think there is a link. In my last game, my Portugese carrick arrived 2 turns
after the Aztecs spawned. All I got was a catapult, a crossbowman and two
pikeman. So I waited until I got a galleon then attacked the Mayans from the
sea as the Aztecs were too strong by then.

I think there is a link.

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The units you get in the event are dependent on you technology advancement and a bit on the number of cities the Ameridians have.

jessiecat said:

I think there is a link. In my last game, my Portugese carrick arrived 2 turns
after the Aztecs spawned. All I got was a catapult, a crossbowman and two
pikeman. So I waited until I got a galleon then attacked the Mayans from the
sea as the Aztecs were too strong by then.

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Are you playing the latest patch? You should get Knights if you have Guilds, which is now required for Optics. Gunpowder will upgrade your Catapults to Cannon (and maybe Pikemen to Musketmen?), and if you're Spain at least the Knights to Conquistadors.

I didn't realise it was dependent on the # of cities they have, though.

All I know is, it's really freaking awesome to get the Conquerors event when you're Japan. Screenshots of the end result will be posted once I'm done.

chococid said:

All I know is, it's really freaking awesome to get the Conquerors event when you're Japan. Screenshots of the end result will be posted once I'm done.

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Too bad the conquerors don't give you the most up to date units. I'm playing Greece and I have military science and chemistry in 1270 when I contacted all the New World civs. I only have knights, cannon, pikemen and musketmen. As opposed to grenadiers.

AnotherPacifist said:

Too bad the conquerors don't give you the most up to date units. I'm playing Greece and I have military science and chemistry in 1270 when I contacted all the New World civs. I only have pikemen and musketmen.

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I got knights, cannons, and pikemen.

I know its linked to the technology you have but being technologically advanced doesnt mean you have a large army.

Personally I think its stupid to be gifted a much much larger force than you have at home.

I understand he AI needs some units to do anything useful on the other hand.

I had some trouble with the Conquistador event, mainly when does it occur?

I was playing Spain and beelined Optics. If I make contact with the Aztecs before I have Astronomy, no conquistadors seem so spawn. Also if I already have the contact with them and then I get astronomy, no event seems to occur. If I beeline astronomy and make contact then, I get crossbowmen, pikes (useless vs Dog Soldiers) and catapults.

I decided to wait until Guilds to get some knights. I kept some caravels just outside the contact range and waited. Two turns before Guilds, Inca made contact with me (I don't know how) and I got no conquistadors. I reloaded and still managed to take everything but the capital with just a crossbowmen 2 cats and 2 pikes. I did get Knights when I made contact with the Aztecs 2 turns later.

So my question is: When does a conquistador event take place?

It seems that anyone could get conquistadors, when I was playing Maya I was attacked by Asoka. So I guess they were looking for a new route to India and they found me and attacked me, since I was Indian. Well, there were too many Indians involved.

You need to meet the Mesoamericans after about 1280-1300 (I'm not sure of the exact date). I think if you meet them before then, then lose contact and return after 1300 you will get the event (assuming you're first contact after the cut-off date) - I'm sure that's happened to me a few times. If you make contact without visibility to their land (e.g. one of their work boats sees you) after the cut-off date you'll lose the chance at the event - I think. That's my understanding anyway

In the latest patch you need Guilds before Optics, which almost necessarily means you will be later than 1300, unless you are doing well with an early civ. This also guarantees you a couple of Knights - previously, lack of Guilds meant you got just the Pikemen, Crossbowman and Catapult(s), making it rather tough to conquer the New World civs.

I'm not sure exactly what the date is either, but 1280-1300 like mushyman says is pretty close from my experience. I think it might be a fraction earlier, anywhere from 1260 onwards, but certainly before this time nothing will trigger.

It is not related to your techs, although the type of units you get is. After the date (around late 1200s), if you are the first to make contact with an American civ but cannot see their cultural area at this time (such as meeting a work boat somewhere out along the coastline) then the conqueror event is lost and nobody will get it. This situation can be what sometimes leads to Aztecs still going strong around the time when America spawns.

Conquerors are certainly not restricted to European civs. I've seen Japanese and Chinese and Turkish conquerors on more than one occasion each.

So it is a date that determines the event not tech. That is good to know. Thanks!

It's not the date, if you are the first one to meet them you get the units, about the type of units it's really simple: If you have gunpowder you get cannons instead of catapults and musketman instead of crossbowman, if you are Spain you get Conquistadors, you allways get pikeman and knights.

Lokolus said:

It's not the date, if you are the first one to meet them you get the units, about the type of units it's really simple: If you have gunpowder you get cannons instead of catapults and musketman instead of crossbowman, if you are Spain you get Conquistadors, you allways get pikeman and knights.

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Well, it is the date as well. Here's the full lowdown AFAIK:

There is one Conqueror event possibility per New World civ that is alive (so potentially three, but more usually two). It occurs only after a certain date around 1260-1300, for the first Old World civ that makes contact and can see at least one plot of the NW civ's land area.

If the NW civ contacts an OW civ at a point where the event could trigger, but *without* revealing any land area (e.g a work boat seeing a caravel), the event is lost for all OW civs. This is an important tactic if you are playing as one of the NW civs.

I think if the NW civs are contacted before the trigger date, but contact is then lost, the event can still occur after the trigger date. Something like this has definitely happened to me in the past.

Type of unit is determined by tech level, # of units apparently by # of NW civ's cities (which explains why I always get more conquerors to take out the Incas - they usually have three cities to the Aztec's two).

I think that's everything.... Have I missed anything?

Lokolus said:

It's not the date, if you are the first one to meet them you get the units,

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Sorry, but this isn't correct Lokolus. If you meet the Aztecs the turn that they spawn, as I once did when I was waiting for them, nothing happens. You have to come back after the date, which I'm not certain but believe it is after 1260 or so, and still be the first after this date.

I still don't think it's the date, maybe it's a certain tech or number of cities, I once had the conqueror event on the Maya in the 1100s.

blizzrd said:

Sorry, but this isn't correct Lokolus. If you meet the Aztecs the turn that they spawn, as I once did when I was waiting for them, nothing happens. You have to come back after the date, which I'm not certain but believe it is after 1260 or so, and still be the first after this date.

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I suppose the event is possible exactly after both Aztecs and Inca spawn.

I just had a look at the code (RiseAndFall.py, onFirstContact(...)):

Conditions
The event can be triggered 5 turns after the Aztec spawn and not later than 1800AD.
So if you reach the new world before the Aztec spawn you don't get the conqueror event.
You can always loose contact and try it again later.

However the contact must happen in a very specific area for each new world civ.
If you contact the civ outside their first-contact area the conqueror event is not triggered.

Units
The type of units depends on your technology level (if you have determinated techs).
The quantity may vary depending on the number of cities owned by the new world civ you are contacting.


Types & quantities:

Soldiers:
If you have Rifling then you get riflemen (redcoat for England)
else if you have Gunpowder then you get musketman (musketeers for France and Janissary for the Turks)
else Crossbowman (chokonu for China)
Quantity: 1 + 1 (if both civs old and new world are owned by AI)

Pikemen:
you get some pikemen, regardless of tech or nationality
Quantity: 2

Artillery:
Cannons if you have Gunpowder
Catapults otherwise
Quantity: 1 + 1 (if the new world civ is Inca with more than 4 towns or new word civ has more than 6 towns and the new world civ is not human) + 1 (if both civs old and new world are owned by AI)


Mounted:
If you are Spain and you have Gunpowder then you get conquistadores
Else if you have Guild you get Knights (camel archers for Arabia, keshik for Mongolia)
NB: no mounted units if you don't have guilds, so better you have the tech before making contact.
Spain gets conquistadores just with guilds... a small advantage for Spain.
Quantity: 0 if you don't have guilds
2 + 1 (if the new world civ is Inca with more than 4 towns or new word civ has more than 6 towns and the new world civ is not human)