How do they know?

If you see it in a regular basis, it is better to post a save, for the code plungers to give a look, right?

Not that I didn't had some suspicions in some games that the AI was making a too much convenient fort where aluminium would appear ....

Doesn't everyone build forts on every tile outside of the BFCs of every city you have?

What's more interesting is if you could exploit it somehow by getting automated workers to build those forts for you cuss they've got to know as well, they just wont tell you about it.

r_rolo1 said:

If you see it in a regular basis, it is better to post a save, for the code plungers to give a look, right?

Not that I didn't had some suspicions in some games that the AI was making a too much convenient fort where aluminium would appear ....

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Yeah, I should get a save together next time I see this developing. It's just that I thought this was commonplace, and that the AI see's and knows all.....

Nah, it is commonplace. I see it almost every game.

I only saw something similar to suspicious one or two times.... the other times were situations where I didn't had the tech or a simply a lucky border fort. And as far as I read the code, there is no leaking of intel

Like I said to kiwi tyrant: if you see it every day, bring it to here. It is not commonplace

It really is, though. I can't tell you how many times I'm a mammoth tech leader (IE they're not even close to industrialism to reveal aluminum or sciMeth to see oil) and they have forts all over those resources. It's not just a couple times or a few resources, it's like all of them. And I've seen AI cities settled in horrible tundra with nothing to offer except the magic oil that appeared under that city when I teched to SciMeth ahead of everyone else.

Post it, them If what you say is true, this is material for patching

popejubal said:

That's obvious. Warriors will always die to Machine Guns. It's only Spearmen that can defeat modern era units.

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I think you didn't see the in my post, or hear the sarcasm in my voice. Of course it's obvious.

r_rolo1 said:

Post it, them If what you say is true, this is material for patching

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You do realize the logistics of what you're asking. You're asking me to post 2 pics per game per resource that is "seen" by the AI including AI cities on horrible terrain for oil bonus.

That would take weeks just to get the games through that point. Also, the AI doesn't always have resources outside of the city's BFC, so they will lay down other improvements until they can utilize the hidden resource which they already see. In other words, the AI isn't going to put a fort in the city's BFC if it knows oil will be there since that isn't very efficient. It would probably lay down a cottage until the oil become usable.

I mean... why should we have to post dozens of screen shots. Plenty of people have seen the AI lay down cities for apparently no reason only to see oil underneath upon getting SciMeth (before the AI)

Post 2 saves. One before and one after the suspicious activity. It doesn't need more than one case to disprove my assertion

I only saw something similar to suspicious one or two times....

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There you go. My 1 game to prove it

I'm at work, no access to new games.

Similar to suspicious != proof . It is at best a anedoctal evidence as I didn't reviewed the save.

And take your time... I'm not in a hurry .

Well, I mean its sort of a ridiculous statement anyway. What exactly is similar to suspicious? It is or it isn't. If you got the feeling, then it's suspicious.

Since it's important to you, I'll keep an eye out in my future games. I mean, there really is no doubt in my mind as it happens a lot. Not by any means does it happen every game, but it happens often enough.

Again, the AI has to have enough land to merit putting a fort down on a non-BFC tile. That doesn't really happen in a lot of games. But almost every time that it does happen, there's some kind of resource under there.

Well, let me describe the similar to suspicious situation:

Monty had a huge empire . In the southern tip it had a island 3 tiles away that was ocupied by Zara. The tip of the continent had Aluminium and Monty, being the moron as he normally is , was light-years away of Industrialism. When Zara hit the 1st border pop, the tile was in the border. Monty made a fort there, during a war with Zara.

Now, I'm not sure that he made the fort for defensive reasons ( but defend from what? water disembarks? ) or because of the hidden resource. And the code read I made so far does not point that the AI has any way of knowing where the resources are ( and in fact it is said by Firaxis that the AI does not have that kind of bonuses, and in a instance where they were proved wrong, back in the earlier days of the game, they corrected it ASAP ). So I have a case with two possible readings, a code read that does not confirm suspicions as far my abilities reading code go and a oficial statement of the code makers saying that it doesn't happen. IMHO that is not even enough to raise a eyebrow.....

Now if you see it frequently and and you're positive that it happens, please post a example. Everyone, including Firaxis, will be pleased to know that a bug was uncovered and it will allow the correction of it.

Your situation sounds straight up suspicious. It's what I experience when I see it happen.

Again, I will keep an eye out for when it happens again. I'll save whenever I see a fort in the middle of nowhere and again when the resource pops.

But no degree of code analysis changes what one experiences. Maybe they're just lucky.

r_rolo1 said:

Post 2 saves. One before and one after the suspicious activity. It doesn't need more than one case to disprove my assertion

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Thank you Karl Popper.

Im suspicious of the ai aswell, I think they are justm like some players in here reloading, they just play till theyve revealed all recources then reload and play the game for real, the same is likely true for attacking, ais often win battles at incredible odds, this could be because the ai is programmed to reload.

[/sarcasm]

All sillyness aside, I do believe the ai knows certain things the player wouldnt be able to know, the power graph by itself would be a thing the player wouldnt be able to see since it requires some espionage, yet the ai always seems to know when to attack.

Ghost in the machine, man. Forget the code.... they're out to get us.

The code sez: the AI is not precognitive when it comes to spotting resources. CvPlot::getBonusType(TeamTypes eTeam) explicitely checks GET_TEAM(eTeam).isHasTech(...) otherwise return NO_BONUS! Another quick look at the code sections that let Workers build Forts seems to indicate, that the AI will build them only for two reasons other than connecting KNOWN bonuses--for canals and air bases after Airships (CvUnitAI::AI_fortTerritory). Here they take the plot's DefenseModifier into account which leads to more AirBaseForts on Hills than on flat land and those Hills may accidentally have Aluminum. But since Forest gives even more defense I was not surprised to spot this:

precognitive fail?

I ran a quick test on a Duel map and Peter did NOT put a Fort on the Oil until he researched ScM and has not yet put a Fort on the Aluminum, since he doesn't have Industrialism and isn't precognitive.



r_rolo1: Maybe Monty was pretty clever to allow passage for ships at times of peace with closed borders, but than again Monty = clever???