Cult of the Dragon

[to_xp]Gekko;7339916 said:

Avahz Darkwood, the Orbi modmod has civ specific pagan temples that replace the generic one, you should take a look. I love those

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To be honest with ya thats where I kinda got the idea (I know I know blatant rip off), but I want to expand them abit with some python effects. Plus I will be leaving the Pegan temples alone, they will still be in the game. These will represent more of the minor religions in the game (Much like the temple of the Hand does). I dunno I still may not do it... If I do it will be more for me, but I will upload it if others are interested.

If the guilds return, I hope they're powerful and have an impact on the game. As of yet, I haven't even noticed a difference in my games.

@Avahz: please oh pretty please, go for it!

I'd love to have those in FFH ( or FF for that matter... ) , and python means some unique and interesting effects coming out of them I guess

technocracy > insert-any-other-religious-view-here

Yes I am a technocrat.

Techno - Machines, Electronics
cracy - Government

I don't think religion plays a part there xD

So back to CotD... I liked how it was setup before it became a guild. I just always thought it needed some sort of disciple unit or priest unit that would let it spread faster. I never really saw it spread to become any sort of real threat. It wouldnt have any spells since really they are not backed by any god.

Monkeyfinger said:

I never noticed its existence. If it's going to come back it should be in some form that matters.

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Agreed. It was, at most, a minor nucance. At least, it was a pedia entry.

I think that the CotD should return definitly. But as we have seen the religions or guilds had only a minor or even no impact at all.
So I thought to use the pagan temple of the Kurios and the Sheaim as a start.
The (insert flavorful name here) replaces the pagan temple of those civs. Its unique ability is the chance (25-50%) to bestow the cultist (or so) promtion on a newly built unit.
the conditions are: this unit must be alive (so demons, undead, etc are excluded), no world unit
This promotion does the following: The unit won't join the Infernals or Mercurians after its death. Instead they are reborn as Dragon guards, who belong to the Kurios or the Sheaim.
Dragon guard: not alive, no combat type(no promotions), start with immune to fear, courage and all promotions they had before and the same strength as the fromer unit.(can be improved) (different unit art for both civs)

Reason: the Kurios and the Sheaim are one of the weakest civs in the game when it comes to warfare. Cardith hasN't enough cities to defend himself properly and the Sheaim lose every war in every game I played so far. This would help them to stay alive long enough to build their dragons.

Some events can be added which have negative effects for cities without the Dragon shrine, and which bring benefits for dragon shrines.

I hope you like this idea.

Oh, the building sound of the Dragon shrines should be the dragon theme.

Reason: the Kurios and the Sheaim are one of the weakest civs in the game when it comes to warfare. Cardith hasN't enough cities to defend himself properly and the Sheaim lose every war in every game I played so far. This would help them to stay alive long enough to build their dragons.

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Kurios AI is weak, but Sheaim can attack with horde of demons (they spawn really fast in sheaim AI cities), and defend their cities with Tar Demons. When they are in ally with Hyborem, they can really kick your ass...

mahazel said:

Kurios AI is weak, but Sheaim can attack with horde of demons (they spawn really fast in sheaim AI cities), and defend their cities with Tar Demons. When they are in ally with Hyborem, they can really kick your ass...

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I am aware that they can have a nice demon army, but in every game I played they would be the first ones to be wiped out by their neighbour. And this happened mostlly between turn 150-200 on normal game speed. Maybe I was unlucky to experience this, but that's what I've seen.

Generally I've found that the Sheaim are one of the last civilizations to start founding new cities. So it's fairly easy to catch them off guard in the very early stages of the game, but mid-game and once the AC has gone up a bit, they can be pretty hard to deal with...

One reason I'd like to see the CotD come back is a lot of us have been hashing out the Revolution's Mod for FfH and one of the functions I've been pushing for is less having my own cities revolt, but more of having large barbarian cities morphed into minor Civs. I would think that since Archeron tends to be in a big city, the CotD religion would sort of be the default for them.

What if each Civ could have their own Dragon Hero so like the Khazad would have Kilphmores dragon etc and their could be like a compact counter when it hits 100% the gods themselves could be unleashed
nvm i just want the each civ gets a Dragon idea

Well, the civs that do get dragons get no other hero's, so that's not entirely fair. And I've seen the Sheaim kick my ass early by rushing Pyre Zombies, killing three civs in quick succession.

Well another thing I'm wondering about is maybe having the CotD religion (maybe make it a religion) would be to allow you to have dragonriders as a air-cav type unit.

On a few forums, many have complained at the lack of air and sea units and/or creatures. I think having some dragon riders filling out the gunship role would be cool.

I mean if the lizard races in FF can have dinosaurs, why can't the rest of us have dragons, wyverns and hydras?

I don't much see how the whole 'FF had it' validates your arguement.

I wanna know what the design team thinks of the Cult as it is right now.

The Lizardmen civs having dinosaur mounts is one reason why I really don't like them being in the game. I like a lot of the changes in FF (especially the extremely useful schema changes) but not a whole lot of the new civ (basically only the Austrin).


Dragons are rare weapons created for the godswar. They are basically the gods' nukes (one reason why I think letting them actually count as nukes, having ranged attacks and making the world shake, is appropriate). While some gods made multiple dragons (and some made none), they were always rare and are even more rare now. There is no way that you'd have enough to allow for people to ride. Plus, what is the point of the dragons having riders? I think they would be more effective if they didn't have to worry about their riders. They tend to be smarter than humans anyway.

Dragons really should be able to fly over any terrain though. They need their strength boosted too. I find the notion that The War Machine could be stronger than a dragon absurd.


That said, I guess that it might be acceptable for some dragon cultists to have found some creations of dark mages from the age of magic and come to the mistaken conclusion that these were minor/baby dragons.


I do think that CotD needs some disciples though.






What do you mean "what the design team thinks of the Cult as it is right now"? It isn't in the game at all now.

I think Kuriotates and Sheaim should get Altar of Dragons as a UB that replaces pagan temple. The only change for the Altar will be that it gives +1 happiness from gold and gems instead of +1 happiness from incense.

With Philosophy, Great Prophets for the Kuriotates and Sheaim will be able to construct the Wyrmhold. Once built, CotD automatically spreads in all cities with an Altar of Dragons (with CotD as a corporation).

Cities with CotD and an Altar can build Wards, the missionary unit of CotD. Wards are national units, only two allowed. The reasoning behind this is that CotD has fewer followers, so finding dedicated missionaries is difficult.

Now, one of the old problems with CotD is that it didn't have enough of an effect to be noticed. I think that what's needed is a list of CotD events that trigger immediately as it is spread to a city. Bored in class yesterday, I came up with a few:

1) Members of the Cult of the Dragon are preaching to the children of X.
(do nothing) >> Warn parents about the heretics, and make sure to usher them off the streets .{40% chance of Altar Event}
(order) >> Have them arrested and removed from the city. {100% of Uprising Event}
(sheaim) >> Make sure the children hear the fire and brimstone version. {+1 happiness for 10 turns}
(kurio) >> Let the children hear the stories of Eurabatres. {+50 culture}

2) Members of the Cult of the Dragon are demanding tribute to their Lord.
(do nothing) >> We have nothing to give them. {+1 unhappiness for 10 turns, 10% chance of Uprising Event}
(pay 30 gold) >> Give them a small tribute. {nothing happens}
(sheaim) >> Forget the tribute. We’ll make a sacrifice to Abashi and take the belongings of the victims for ourselves. {-1 population, +50-75 gold}
(kurio) >> I’m sure Eurabatres holds our kingdom very close to his heart. His tribute should come from the Cult to us. {+25-50 gold}

3) Members of the Cult of the Dragon want a shrine built for their Lord. (ALTAR EVENT)
(do nothing) >> We can’t waste our resources on this nonsense. {+1 unhappiness for 10 turns, 10% chance of Uprising Event}
(pay 50 gold) >> Give them what they need. {city gains an Altar of Dragons}
(sheaim) >> Fine, but slave labor will cost you... {city gains an Altar of Dragons, -1 population, +25-50 gold}
(kurio) >> Of course, we’d be happy to help you with your shrine. {city gains an Altar of Dragons, +1 happiness for 10 turns}

4) Members of the Cult of the Dragon are outraged over your oppression of them. They’ve taken up arms against you! (UPRISING EVENT) (this event never happens to the Kuriotates or Sheaim)
(do nothing) >> The situation is out of control! Tell the local guard to round up the dragon-worshippers and do whatever they can to calm everyone down! {2 turns of disorder}
(hold a unit in the city) >> Tell our troops to move in. I want to see those heathens’ heads on pikes! {-1 population, +1 unhappiness for 5 turns, removes CotD}

One of these random events triggers as CotD expands into a city (except the Uprising Event). This will make CotD noticeable but not game-breaking. After that, a set of other random events can happen whenever. I came up with a few more:

5) Members of the Cult of the Dragon are planning a grand carnival that could overshadow a major religious holiday.
(do nothing) >> Unless they’re doing something wrong, there’s nothing we can do. {-50 culture}
(do nothing) >> Sabotage their festival. {75% chance of Uprising Event}
(balseraphs) >> Wonderful! {+100 culture}
(sheaim) >> That ambition could be put to better use… {receive 2 slaves}
(kurio) >> There’s no reason our holiday has to be overshadowed. Let our priests join the festival, and stand side-by-side with our dragon-worshipping kin. {+1 happiness for 10 turns, +200 culture}

6) Enraged members of the Cult of the Dragon have driven all the priests from X!
(do nothing) >> Arrest the individuals responsible. This kind of behavior won’t be tolerated. {lose all religions in the city}
(do nothing) >> Purge the Cult from the city. We don’t need them terrorizing our clergy. {100% of Uprising Event}
(sheaim) >> Their ferocity is impressive, but so is their stupidity. Have them beaten publically and send our priests back in. {+1 happiness for 10 turns}.
(kurio) >> If they want to speak their minds, let them, but behavior like this is unacceptable. Tell the Wards of their heresy and strengthen the local guard so this does not happen again. {-10 crime rate}

7) Two sects of the Cult of the Dragon have been feuding in X. The local guard worries that violence is brewing between them.
(do nothing) >> Let’s wait and see what happens. At the first sign of trouble, begin arresting them. {spawn a barbarian Ward outside city}
(do nothing) >> Arrest them now, before things get out of hand. {100% chance of Uprising Event}
(sheaim) >> These must belong to the little boy king. Pathetic, they’re no threat to us. Let them preach or fight if they have to. {+50 culture, +1 relation with Kuriotate}
(sheaim) >> Why are Eurabatres’ worshipers preaching drivel here? Kill every last one, and harvest their bodies. I’ll put them to good use. {receive 2 skeletons, -1 relation with Kuriotate}
(kurio) >> The Sheaim must have sent them. Very well, break up the fighting and let them preach. We may have our differences, but we’re all brothers in faith. {+100 culture, +1 relation with Sheaim}
(kurio) >> We will not tolerate Abashi’s worshippers in our cities. Tell the local guard to remove them by force. {+1 happiness for 20 turns, -1 relation with Sheaim}

These are just a few I have done, but I'm planning more:

8) Members of the Cult of the Dragon have committed a rash of vandalization to local temples.
9) Enraged members of the Cult of the Dragon have been burning religious texts in the city square.
10) Members of the Cult of the Dragon have seized X's pagan temple. They demand supplies to refurbish it for their faith.
11) A new disease is spreading in X. Black scales are growing on peoples' skin.
12) Members of the Cult of the Dragon are performing rituals with dragon's fire.
13) People afraid of the Cult of the Dragon are migrating from X.
14) Adepts from the Cult of the Dragon are testing unstable magic on the people of X.
15) Children are being born with golden tails in X.
16) People are coughing smoke in X.
17) A member of the Cult of the Dragon is preaching about the end of the world in X.
18) A member of the Cult of the Dragon is preaching about a beautiful city with mythical creatures in X.
19) Overnight, tiny embers have sprouted on plants throughout X. Though quite beautiful, fires are being reported all over the city.
20) People in X have become fascinated with Cult of the Dragon. Temples and carnivals are empty as people flock to preaching Wards.
22) X is infested with tiny black and yellow lizards. Local guards believe eggs are being smuggled in by members of the Cult of the Dragon.
21) Baby dragons are wandering through the streets of X.

Whew, that was a lot to type. Anyway, these are some of my ideas. Any feedback on this is welcome.

Rystic said:

I think Kuriotates and Sheaim should get Altar of Dragons as a UB that replaces pagan temple. The only change for the Altar will be that it gives +1 happiness from gold and gems instead of +1 happiness from incense.

Click to expand...

I like that idea. If I get the time, I might mod that. Is it if I do that and give special thanks to you for your idea?

Rystic said:

With Philosophy, Great Prophets for the Kuriotates and Sheaim will be able to construct the Wyrmhold. Once built, CotD automatically spreads in all cities with an Altar of Dragons (with CotD as a corporation).

Cities with CotD and an Altar can build Wards, the missionary unit of CotD. Wards are national units, only two allowed. The reasoning behind this is that CotD has fewer followers, so finding dedicated missionaries is difficult.

Click to expand...

Again, all good ideas. So, CotD would act sorta as a religion, in that it spreads w/o a missionary unit to start things off and spreads thru the altars, but stay a corporation in effect.
Wat strength were you thinkin for Ward, by the way? Tho, I would argue for 3 Wards. That balances things out. Unless you have a reason as to why there should only be 2?

Now, one of the old problems with CotD is that it didn't have enough of an effect to be noticed. I think that what's needed is a list of CotD events that trigger immediately as it is spread to a city. Bored in class yesterday, I came up with a few:

Rystic said:

1) Members of the Cult of the Dragon are preaching to the children of X.
(do nothing) >> Warn parents about the heretics, and make sure to usher them off the streets .{40% chance of Altar Event}
(order) >> Have them arrested and removed from the city. {100% of Uprising Event}
(sheaim) >> Make sure the children hear the fire and brimstone version. {+1 happiness for 10 turns}
(kurio) >> Let the children hear the stories of Eurabatres. {+50 culture}

2) Members of the Cult of the Dragon are demanding tribute to their Lord.
(do nothing) >> We have nothing to give them. {+1 unhappiness for 10 turns, 10% chance of Uprising Event}
(pay 30 gold) >> Give them a small tribute. {nothing happens}
(sheaim) >> Forget the tribute. We’ll make a sacrifice to Abashi and take the belongings of the victims for ourselves. {-1 population, +50-75 gold}
(kurio) >> I’m sure Eurabatres holds our kingdom very close to his heart. His tribute should come from the Cult to us. {+25-50 gold}

3) Members of the Cult of the Dragon want a shrine built for their Lord. (ALTAR EVENT)
(do nothing) >> We can’t waste our resources on this nonsense. {+1 unhappiness for 10 turns, 10% chance of Uprising Event}
(pay 50 gold) >> Give them what they need. {city gains an Altar of Dragons}
(sheaim) >> Fine, but slave labor will cost you... {city gains an Altar of Dragons, -1 population, +25-50 gold}
(kurio) >> Of course, we’d be happy to help you with your shrine. {city gains an Altar of Dragons, +1 happiness for 10 turns}

4) Members of the Cult of the Dragon are outraged over your oppression of them. They’ve taken up arms against you! (UPRISING EVENT) (this event never happens to the Kuriotates or Sheaim)
(do nothing) >> The situation is out of control! Tell the local guard to round up the dragon-worshippers and do whatever they can to calm everyone down! {2 turns of disorder}
(hold a unit in the city) >> Tell our troops to move in. I want to see those heathens’ heads on pikes! {-1 population, +1 unhappiness for 5 turns, removes CotD}

One of these random events triggers as CotD expands into a city (except the Uprising Event). This will make CotD noticeable but not game-breaking. After that, a set of other random events can happen whenever. I came up with a few more:

5) Members of the Cult of the Dragon are planning a grand carnival that could overshadow a major religious holiday.
(do nothing) >> Unless they’re doing something wrong, there’s nothing we can do. {-50 culture}
(do nothing) >> Sabotage their festival. {75% chance of Uprising Event}
(balseraphs) >> Wonderful! {+100 culture}
(sheaim) >> That ambition could be put to better use… {receive 2 slaves}
(kurio) >> There’s no reason our holiday has to be overshadowed. Let our priests join the festival, and stand side-by-side with our dragon-worshipping kin. {+1 happiness for 10 turns, +200 culture}

6) Enraged members of the Cult of the Dragon have driven all the priests from X!
(do nothing) >> Arrest the individuals responsible. This kind of behavior won’t be tolerated. {lose all religions in the city}
(do nothing) >> Purge the Cult from the city. We don’t need them terrorizing our clergy. {100% of Uprising Event}
(sheaim) >> Their ferocity is impressive, but so is their stupidity. Have them beaten publically and send our priests back in. {+1 happiness for 10 turns}.
(kurio) >> If they want to speak their minds, let them, but behavior like this is unacceptable. Tell the Wards of their heresy and strengthen the local guard so this does not happen again. {-10 crime rate}

7) Two sects of the Cult of the Dragon have been feuding in X. The local guard worries that violence is brewing between them.
(do nothing) >> Let’s wait and see what happens. At the first sign of trouble, begin arresting them. {spawn a barbarian Ward outside city}
(do nothing) >> Arrest them now, before things get out of hand. {100% chance of Uprising Event}
(sheaim) >> These must belong to the little boy king. Pathetic, they’re no threat to us. Let them preach or fight if they have to. {+50 culture, +1 relation with Kuriotate}
(sheaim) >> Why are Eurabatres’ worshipers preaching drivel here? Kill every last one, and harvest their bodies. I’ll put them to good use. {receive 2 skeletons, -1 relation with Kuriotate}
(kurio) >> The Sheaim must have sent them. Very well, break up the fighting and let them preach. We may have our differences, but we’re all brothers in faith. {+100 culture, +1 relation with Sheaim}
(kurio) >> We will not tolerate Abashi’s worshippers in our cities. Tell the local guard to remove them by force. {+1 happiness for 20 turns, -1 relation with Sheaim}

These are just a few I have done, but I'm planning more:

8) Members of the Cult of the Dragon have committed a rash of vandalization to local temples.
9) Enraged members of the Cult of the Dragon have been burning religious texts in the city square.
10) Members of the Cult of the Dragon have seized X's pagan temple. They demand supplies to refurbish it for their faith.
11) A new disease is spreading in X. Black scales are growing on peoples' skin.
12) Members of the Cult of the Dragon are performing rituals with dragon's fire.
13) People afraid of the Cult of the Dragon are migrating from X.
14) Adepts from the Cult of the Dragon are testing unstable magic on the people of X.
15) Children are being born with golden tails in X.
16) People are coughing smoke in X.
17) A member of the Cult of the Dragon is preaching about the end of the world in X.
18) A member of the Cult of the Dragon is preaching about a beautiful city with mythical creatures in X.
19) Overnight, tiny embers have sprouted on plants throughout X. Though quite beautiful, fires are being reported all over the city.
20) People in X have become fascinated with Cult of the Dragon. Temples and carnivals are empty as people flock to preaching Wards.
22) X is infested with tiny black and yellow lizards. Local guards believe eggs are being smuggled in by members of the Cult of the Dragon.
21) Baby dragons are wandering through the streets of X.

Whew, that was a lot to type. Anyway, these are some of my ideas. Any feedback on this is welcome.

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Wow! Seriously, can I take your ideas and make em into a modmod? You, of course, will get the credit for the idea. (And I'll jus be the coder.) I'll pm you bout this.

awesome ideas Rystic!