OK, I will move JH down 2 slots in the order (should be enough to get past Wednesday, and we can always shift further if needed).
Mastiff, where would you like to go back into the roster? I could put you as the on-deck player if you want, or if that is not enough time to catch up or does not fit your schedule I can place you another slot or two down. Let me know.
So for now I am the player up, and this is my got it post. Kale is on deck, unless Mastiff wants the on-deck spot.
We need to discuss and decide a number of issues for the next turnset, the most important of these are:
1) Settling cities - try for brown dot, yes or no? Do we want 1 more settler now, 2 more, zero more? Where to build any additional settlers? Order of sites to be settled?
Note: I see Kale has crossposted while I write this, so that is one vote in.
I like his idea of taking Food Heaven, Two Rivers, and Bear Town building a settler for Grapeville.
2) Tech path after Astro finishes
From my previous post, we have several options:
a) Research Currency, then Gunpowder/Rifling
b) Reseach Gunpowder/Rifling while hoping an AI will finally trade Currency
c) Research Philo/Lib (and maybe Nationalism?), then either (a) or (b)
d) Build cash for several turns as obs/labs get built in key cities, then either (a), (b), or (c)
(a) is the certain path, where we control all aspects. (b) is fastest to paras, but with uncertainty about when Currency will be obtained and whether our cash will run out too early due to increasing city costs. (c) gets us through Lib so we can trade enabling techs, and are positioned to grab Cristo if low odds give us a GE. (d) will delay reaching paras a bit, but gets us more total beakers, enough cash to finish Rifling even with new city costs, and (maybe) time for an AI to become willing to trade Currency.
I personally favor (d) for a small number of turns. Maybe 3, which should complete the obs in JH, or else 6 to complete obs + lab in JH and maybe obs in one or two other cities, then hopefully (b).
A quick look at the AIs and possible trade opportunities:
HBR - Not an important tech for us. Shaka, HC, and Joao know it. Joao will trade if Hammi gets it; HC will trade if either of WK or Stalin gets it.
Aesthetics - useful as a prereq to Lit and the Epics. Known by HC, WK, and Hammi, but presumably none will trade until Shwedagon is built. WK we are not trading with, Hammi should trade once the wonder is built, and HC would require one more AI to know it.
Currency - highly desired by us, known to HC and Hammi. Hammi needs one of Joao and WK to know it before he will trade, HC requires two more AIs to know it. It would help if Hammi and HC knew one another. Odds are poor that we will be able to get this in trade in time.
Philo - highly desirable to us for Lib, known only to Joao. He would require Hammi to know it, and probably for Angkor Wat to have been built. Not likely to be tradable soon.
Engineering - desirable to us for opening future techs (Chemistry), known only to HC. He will require two AIs he knows to know it before trading, and for Notre Dame to be built. Not likely to be tradable anytime soon, but not yet an urgent need.
So overall, our best hope for Currency is if Joao or WK are researching it right now. How likely that is...who knows? Odds are not great that we get it quickly by trade, and with Astro opening off-continent TRs we should probably tech it ourselves if it is not available immediately.
3) Great People production - see discussion below for details of options.
OK, here is v1.0 of the turnset plan. A lot depends on the questions above, so this may change. But for discussion....
Diplomacy
Continue to exclude WK from all deals, unless he becomes no longer the worst enemy of HC.
Trade for techs if we can get them, especially Currency, Philo, or Aesthetics. HBR...who cares?
If Hammi asks us to adopt Confu, how do we respond?
If Taoism spreads and Joao asks us to adopt it, how do we respond?
If any religion spreads from overseas (should we build missionaries to Confuse our non-Confu cities to prevent this?) and we are asked to adopt, how do we respond? Judaism is no one's SR (founded by WK), so no one will ask. Hindusim is WK's SR...presumably reject. But Buddhism...would annoy Hammi and Joao (soon to die), and cement friendship with HC, Stalin, and Shaka. Hmmmm.
Resource Deals
We could trade corn for Joao's wheat just to get one more resource counting towards diplo bonuses. But with Astro in 3 turns, I will hold off and see what deals are available overseas. Cancel the giveaway deals with Joao and Hammi at that time, and make the best trades we can overseas. We do not really need more health or happiness, but if we get some resources in trade we can then hand them to other AIs for more diplo with everyone.
Possible thought -- wait on deals until have Currency, then pull in as much cash as possible while still gaining diplo bonuses. More gold = more research = sooner launch date. But it requires Currency.
Maybe we should just tech the damn thing right after Astro, if it is not available? Stupid backwards AIs!
Civics
OR is costing us 6 or even 7 gpt, compared to paganism.
Do we switch to Confu, and at least get the building bonus for our obs/labs/airports? Would wreck our diplo for trading, though.
Or swap back to Paganism - ouch on anarchy? Stand pat and continue bleeding cash?
Why did we switch to OR, exactly?
Espionage
We can now see HC's research, so dial him back to weight 1 but keep an eye on it - increase if necessary to keep research visible.
We are in danger of no longer being able to see demos for Hammi and Joao. Do we care? If yes, put weight 1 on each, and a final weight 1 on WK to eventually see his demos and research. If not, put all remaining wieght wherever -- who might we want to target?
Great People
LM - Will pull two pop off the forest preserves and run as scientists for 5 turns, getting our next GP. Then assign those two pop back to the preserves and run "sustainable" specialists with very slow growth. The following GP would be another 12 turns after that (19 GPP overflow, 32 GPP/turn "sustainable").
Alternately, stay on "sustainable" configuration the entire time. Next GP is then in 7 turns, and the following another 13 turns. So we delay the first by 2 turns, and the second by 3 turns. Each is worth (assuming GP and settled in JH) 1.5 hammers and 21 beakers per turn (minor issue with first couple turns of first GS not having the lab up, maybe a beaker total). So that is 7.5 hammers and 105 beakers total, for losing 20 food, 10 hammers, and 20 base commerce (30 beakers) in LM. But the extra scientists in LM would give 5 * 9 bpt = 45 beakers back. Overall cost to get the GP earlier:
20 food, 2.5 hammers for 120 beakers
Not a bad deal. If we manipulate IT to produce an additional GP between the two from LM, the math gets more complex. As Kale demonstrated earlier, IT has strong tiles to work so the benefit of getting another GP earlier is a lot more questionable. I do not match his calculations exactly:
Take the three 1 food tiles for -3 food, -8 hammers, -13 commerce (19.5 beakers), giving 3 more scientists (+13.5 beakers) for a loss per turn of 3 food, 8 hammers, 6 beakers. This lasts 6 turns:
-18 food, -48 hammers, -36 beakers
One turn with 4 scientists at -2 food, -5 hammers, -3 beakers:
-20 food, -53 hammers, -39 beakers
Then 3 turns with 3 scientists at -1 food, -2 hammers, 0 beakers:
-23 food, -59 hammers, -39 beakers
This gets us a GP at 5 turns (from LM), a GP at 10 turns (from IT), and another GP from LM at 19 turns. Compared to GPs from LM alone at 5 turns and 17 turns, we gain the second GP 7 turns early (although 3 turns travel time before it can settle in JH, so we only get 4 turns value), but a third GP at T19. If only LM produces GP, it would be about 400 GPP short of a third GP (about 13 turns in "sustainable" configuration). Call it 17 turns of an additional GP, which if all are GS means:
25.5 hammers and 357 beakers
Compared to the loss in IT of 23 food, 59 hammers, and 39 beakers, again this looks like a very good deal.
I would go with the max specialists approach in both LM and IT. But I may have dropped or carried incorrectly somewhere - check my math!
Cities and Builds
JH - Builds airport (4 turns, but with 31 overflow), then obs (2 turns, 27 overflow), lab (3 turns, 1 overflow) - 9 turns total, getting an extra TR and the +50% beakers up. Will grow at 9 turns as well, probably running a scientist at that point.
LM - Currently building a courthouse. With max scientists, will still be 19 hammers (3 turns) short when Astro completes. The courthouse will save a bit under 2 gpt (+2 EP, of course), while an obs will give 6.25 bpt (plus any increase in TR commerce). So leave the courthouse unfinished and begin an observatory.
Sleeps - Unless we want some missionaries to get some value from OR, I guess this is an airport for future military purposes. 9 turns with growing next turn and adding the windmill tile, so it will take the whole turnset.
CiB - Currently building a courthouse. Do this for one more turn (until CiB is done putting hammers in the Colossus), then switch to Colossus. An observatory here will only provide 4.5 beakers per turn (averaging with extra coast tile). Do we want to keep putting hammers into Colossus for as long as possible? Or start the observatory as soon as Astro comes in? I think we want the cash.
Will grow to use all seafood tiles in 3 turns, and then again about 6 turns later. We will want another windmill up by that time (see worker actions below).
SdL - Puts 1 more turn into Colossus, leaving it 2 hammers from done. Then switch to lighthouse, which will finish in 2 turns with some overflow. Start observatory, followed by lab (into next turnset).
IT - Runs max scientists as described above (or do we want one engineer?), leaving minimal hammers until they get put back on tiles as the food bar runs out. Currently building a courthouse, as usual an obs will provide more benefit. So switch after Astro comes in.
Alternate idea: once SdL and CiB are done putting hammers in, put some hammers into the Colossus if it is not yet built.
Bear Town - Switch immediately to settler (6 turns). Once done, finish granary (4 turns), then build workboat for IT's whales (we will have Astro, so it can get there). Work the watermill once it is ready (4 turns from now).
New settlers:
SdL guy (can still move this turn) goes to Two Rivers site and settles next turn. Other settlers goes to Food Heaven, settles turn 7. Bear Town settler goes to Grapeville, settles turn 8.
If SdL guy goes to Food Heaven and other settler to TR, they settle T5 and T6. So for one turn delay at Food Heaven we can settler TR 6 turns early. Our costs are definitely going to jump with three new cities so close together, but we need to get these sites growing and developing.
Two Rivers - work flood plain, build lighthouse (for 3 food from lake tiles). Work iron once improved (see worker actions below).
Food Heaven - start lighthouse.
Grapeville - start granary.
Worker Actions
The farming project is not all that urgent, and we need workers down south to road and build improvements at the new cities. So that will be my focus.
- Emmett Brown (SW of BT) finishes farm, then builds a winery to give BT another strong tile (equal to a grass forest preserve on a river). We will want the extra wine for trade.
- Fearless (east of BT) finishes watermill, then moves (with escorts as necessary) to preserve another forest for BT.
- DeLorean roads his current tile (T1,2) then joins the road project towards TR with Einstein and Jules Verne.
- Einstein moves NE and roads the wine (T1), then moves SW and assists DeLorean and Jules Verne in roading towards TR and improving the iron.
- Jules Verne moves SE,NE and roads the wine (T1). Then moves SW and assists DeLorean and Einstein in roading towards TR and improving iron.
- namliaM moves NW and roads, then SW and roads wheat. Then moves back east for the farming project and improving tiles for Grapeville once founded.
- Arcadic (by LM and JH) starts pre-watermilling SE of JH. Does
NOT complete any of them yet. Someone please advise on which tiles specifically should be prepared.
- Obama (near CiB) stops the preserve (not needed that urgently), moves to CiB (T1), then starts windmill on roaded ice hill. Will be needed by the time he finishes it.
- Thorrez (near TR) moves SE and builds watermill (city will be founded next turn). Once completed, help with team roading towards Food Heaven or possibly start a windmill.
- Biff (near IT) completes camp, then moves NE and builds camp. Then W and build camp.
Military
Remain on defensive at Bear Town. If barbs move out of forest into open land, smash them. Attempt to get more XP for our top units to get a 10 XP unit and unlock the HE.
If more barbs land, similar as above.
In the south, move our brown dot xbow back north, and send Friar Tuck towards Food Heaven to fogbust there so our settler can move in. We will need a unit for TR - maybe the brown dot xbow once Food Heaven is founded? Friar Tuck will garrison FH, and our fogbusting phalanx on the hill can garrison Grapeville once it is founded.
Zep overseas continues some exploration, otherwise keep zeps available for barb smashing duty.
Should be a quiet turnset, overall, building obs/labs, founding cities, lots of worker micro.
I will aim to play either Monday night (about 28 hours from now) or Tuesday night, depending on discussion and whether outstanding questions are settled. Let me know what you think, especially on the big open issues.
from the chop, and the overflow plus 25% from the forge will go into the Colossus
Chris
Do you want to take the next turnset (you are up), or will it not fit your schedule? I can swap with you if desired, but with this next set looking fairly straight-forward you might be up again before Wednesday. Let me know if I should post a turnset plan.
but I would run LM by maxing food now (working the 4 preserves) with 3 scientists then add scientists as it grows.
to convert to cash or something usefull...
on all the above. Barracks in JH and Sleepy we already have, and most of our units will come from these two cities, so we should be fine. And I think 5 paras is likely to be plenty for pre-gunpowder defenders. 4 per group would probably be enough, even if it takes 2 turns to kill all the defenders.
