The basic purpose of the comparisons is to show the various amounts of food-for-growth each city can have and what each is capable of when it has that much food. I wanted to see if FP is really so crippled by not having any food resources. My conclusion is that it's not.
f=9 means that the city has +9f for growth, in this case, SWClams would have a lh and clams nets=+3, fish nets=+4 and city center=+2.
So in FP, 8f means that that the fp farm gives +2f, 2 grass farms give +1f each, and city center gives +2f.
That means that data are showing what the respective cities are capable of, given certain food thresholds. For example, in the Windmill data, I show both cities with and without lighthouses. W/o lh's, both cities are comparable at pop6 with 16hpt, although it's easy to see (but not shown in the data) that FP will reach 6pop faster than SWClams, because 1) it only needs a granary and 2) the ironmine+farmed fp are quickly on line and very powerful, whereas SWClams struggles to get the fish online and a windmilled hill provides fewer hammers so the 1) granary, 2) trireme, and 3) wb all take a long time. So my conclusion from the windmill w/o lh column is that FP is very effective for producing paratroopers in 30-40 turns, whereas SWClams is not so good. An additional conclusion is that settling FP first can fairly quickly produce the granary-trireme-wb-wb so that SWClams can also come on line fairly quickly a bit later.
EDIT: Note that for the Bio and SP data, I show them with lots of population, because I assumed that the cities would keep on growing. Those extra citizens are mostly just working water tiles, so they only add coins.
Monarchy: Are we going to wait and see if we get Monarchy for free? Or research it soon for the +1 from wines and maybe a revolt to HeredRule for MW growth? I suppose an alternative is to eventually build a market in MW for the furs and whale bonus .
Monarchy: Are we going to wait and see if we get Monarchy for free? Or research it soon for the +1 from wines and maybe a revolt to HeredRule for MW growth? I suppose an alternative is to eventually build a market in MW for the furs and whale bonus .
I don't think we should research it until Oxford is done. And we should definately not leave Police State until the wars are over!
We will have to decide what techs we need between Education and Rifling. Shall we delay Rifling five-ten turns to get Aesthetics, Drama, Literature, Monarch etc?
Whales may take a while since Compass/Optics are not that high priority for us. Perhaps we can trade to Compass?
Technically, no (a fort 1E of KonTiki will allow paras to paradrop onto the visible land). However, I think we should attack Shaka (and not Joao, if his land will push us over the dom limit), so we will need Astro if we want to get there any time before our spaceship. Shaka has quite a few grassland and rivers, and 5 happy resources nearby (gems, ivory, silk, dye, sugar)
The PPP is in progress, C3 is now 1N, and I'm building an extra settler and worker.
Monarchy: Are we going to wait and see if we get Monarchy for free? Or research it soon for the +1 from wines and maybe a revolt to HeredRule for MW growth? I suppose an alternative is to eventually build a market in MW for the furs and whale bonus .
They have a range of five, so the only path would be west from Hammurabi (Alaska - Kamtjatka). Only other option would be if we could buy a city from an AI (then airlift), which I doubt is possible? Are you considering any military target overseas? I presume we want Astronomy for trade anyway, so it's not that far away in the future anyway.
EDIT: crosspost with ZPV - I didn't think about the fort.
Looks good to me (I only read the changes in black...). I guess it makes sense to get Oxford done asap, so we don't have any reason to save chops in MW.
What? Are you planning to take Galleons to Hammurabi?!?!
As I see it, once we have Paratroopers, we capture all important cities from Hammurabi and Joao (which may be all they run). We have plenty of time to research Astronomy if we want to continue the military campaign.
That's why I wondered if you prefer to attack overseas before we attack Hammurabi and/or Joao, because then astro becomes more important than rifling.
One other note: I think we will have use for another airship or two once the war starts. Loosing field of view while rebasing is annoying, and we may want to attack with injured paratroopers to speed up the war, and an airship can shift the odds considerable, yes?
Yes, I plan to. I'll take a short break at my mid-turnset break, and either continue an hour or so later, or tomorrow.
As I see it, once we have Paratroopers, we capture all important cities from Hammurabi and Joao (which may be all they run). We have plenty of time to research Astronomy if we want to continue the military campaign.
That's why I wondered if you prefer to attack overseas before we attack Hammurabi and/or Joao, because then astro becomes more important than rifling.
How much of Joao's land do we actually want? If we can settle NicePlace, then I think a case can be made for attacking Shaka before we consider attacking Joao (because of the domination land limit).
One other note: I think we will have use for another airship or two once the war starts. Loosing field of view while rebasing is annoying, and we may want to attack with injured paratroopers to speed up the war, and an airship can shift the odds considerable, yes?
edit: forgot to answer this one when I posted
if it's injured paratroopers vs archers, it might change the odds from 97% to 99%. For longbows, there will be more of an effect.
Will the domination limit be a problem? We can liberate all cities that has resources we want. Heck - we can capture every capital in the game and have a monster Empire
Does anyone have experience with repeated liberation i.e. if our vassal will break of if his land/pop increases over time?
Even if the odds does not change that much, the attacking paratrooper will take less damage and can attack again next turn (perhaps).
t65
Worker actions and MM done. Chop went into MW. I'll double check it before pressing enter.
IBT: a promoted barb galley appears in the south. I think it's moving north, back to Atlantis.
t66
Not much to report. As PPP.
IBT: a barb galley promoted to Drill 2 + Navi + Medic comes out of Atlantis.
t67 Fine Leg is founded 1N of the wines (C3).
Scout Atlantis. It is pop20, and has 1Axe + 2Swords + 4Archers.
IBT: a barb spear spawned near NicePlace... no need to worry about that.
t68
MM Murky Waters for growth in one turn while still working all built cottages.
IBT: Two barb Axes suicide amphibiously on our forested maces.
Hammurabi founds Christianity in Akkad (the ice city).
t69
Some more MM. I'll stop here, as planned. I'm fairly tired, so I'll continue tomorrow around lunchtime (GMT+1).
----------------------------------------
Continuing after discussion to post 795
Trade Maths to Hammurabi for Masonry and World Map. (gets +1fair trade)
Trade Maths to Wang Kon for 10 gold (gets +2 fair trade, still annoyed)
Give Medi to Wang Kon (up to +4 fair trade, now cautious).
Huayna Capac doesn't seem to mind
t70
OB with Wang Kon.
Trade CoL for Monotheism, WM and 10 gold with Hammurabi.
I'll give Priesthood to Wang Kon when he has 10 gold to give us; he won't trade world map for PH.
IBT: Hammi converts to Christianity.
t71
Airship scouts near Oporto; trade routes should open up IBT.
A city on the stone would get Clams + Cows, and Joao has a settler (without adequate defenders) in Oporto.
IBT: a Great Scientist (Werner Heisenberg) is born is Cuzco. Shaka has construction; won't trade.
t72
Sell Monotheism to Wang Kon for World Map and 10 gold.
Sell Mono to Joao for 10 gold to decrease cost of Monarchy.
IBT: There are now 3 barb galleys in view near C1. Two of them are damaged and returning from Joao, the other one is loaded and will attack next turn.
I'm off to upload.
Turn 65, 400 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Frozen Fish. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 65, 400 BC: The borders of Marble have expanded!
Turn 67, 320 BC: Fine Leg has been founded.
Turn 68, 280 BC: You have trained a Archer in Murky Waters. Work has now begun on a Settler.
Turn 68, 280 BC: Christianity has been founded in Akkad!
Turn 68, 280 BC: Barbarian's Axeman (6.50) vs Pericles'sMaceman (16.80)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Combat Odds: 0.1%
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Pericles's Maceman is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Pericles's Maceman is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Pericles's Maceman is hit for 12 (64/100HP)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Pericles's Maceman has defeated Barbarian's Axeman!
Turn 68, 280 BC: Barbarian's Axeman (6.50) vs Pericles'sMaceman (14.76)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Combat Odds: 1.2%
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Fortify: +5%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 68, 280 BC: Pericles's Maceman has defeated Barbarian's Axeman!
Turn 69, 240 BC: Logging Game to File: SGOTM09.txt
Turn 69, 240 BC: You have discovered Masonry!
Turn 69, 240 BC: The borders of Fine Leg have expanded!
Turn 69, 240 BC: Hammurabi adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 70, 200 BC: You have discovered Monotheism!
Turn 70, 200 BC: You have trained a Worker in Frozen Fish. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 70, 200 BC: Hammurabi converts to Christianity!
Turn 71, 160 BC: Frozen Fish has grown to size 5
Turn 71, 160 BC: Frozen Fish will grow to size 6 on the next turn
Turn 71, 160 BC: Werner Heisenberg (Great Scientist) has been born in Cuzco (Huayna Capac)!
Turn 71, 160 BC: A Forest has grown near Marble!
Turn 72, 120 BC: C1 will grow to size 4 on the next turn
Turn 72, 120 BC: KonTiki has grown to size 4
Turn 72, 120 BC: Christianity has spread in Fine Leg.
Turn 72, 120 BC: Fine Leg will grow to size 2 on the next turn
Turn 72, 120 BC: Wang Kon adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 73, 80 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Fine Leg!
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from wines and maybe a revolt to HeredRule for MW growth? I suppose an alternative is to eventually build a market in MW for the furs and whale bonus 
). I guess it makes sense to get Oxford done asap, so we don't have any reason to save chops in MW.
