SGOTM 09 - Murky Waters

Erkon · May 11, 2009

LowtherCastle said:
Anyone remember if HC has marble?

HC does not have Marble

klarius · May 11, 2009

I'm tired today. I will think and play some more tomorrow

.

klarius · May 12, 2009

Revised PPP for the rest.
MW MoM (to be finished in 6 turns with 2 chops, if HC doesn't do it.
FF settler-odeon-worker
Marble-missionary-missionary
C1 HE-archer
FL odeon
KT LH (2t) - worker (no pop-rush - has enough unhappy)
FP, MR continue

If the desire is really for the GA we should do music first. We don't even know if the barbs have already done it (which doesn't give them a GA, but takes it away for everybody), much less if they will do it in the next 10 turns.

There is still the question about where to settle. If MW clams (where?), troop deployment has to start now and it's still risky.
If not, I don't see that we will do anything about Atlantis before astronomy.

Erkon · May 12, 2009

PPP looking good (do you think we will reach happy cap in FL?)

I desire an early GA

I prefer to settle MW-clams once we have reach Rifling to draw out the defenders from Atlantis. Then we can send two galleons with 6 paratroopers and capture the city before advancing to Shaka. This would then fit well with:

1. Attack Hammurabi, while researching towards Astronomy
2. Attack Atlantis
3. Attack Shaka
4. Attack Stalin (optional)

klarius said:
Revised PPP for the rest.
MW MoM (to be finished in 6 turns with 2 chops, if HC doesn't do it.
FF settler-odeon-worker
Marble-missionary-missionary
C1 HE-archer
FL odeon
KT LH (2t) - worker (no pop-rush - has enough unhappy)
FP, MR continue

If the desire is really for the GA we should do music first. We don't even know if the barbs have already done it (which doesn't give them a GA, but takes it away for everybody), much less if they will do it in the next 10 turns.

There is still the question about where to settle. If MW clams (where?), troop deployment has to start now and it's still risky.
If not, I don't see that we will do anything about Atlantis before astronomy.

ZPV · May 12, 2009

klarius said:
If the desire is really for the GA we should do music first. We don't even know if the barbs have already done it (which doesn't give them a GA, but takes it away for everybody), much less if they will do it in the next 10 turns.

There is still the question about where to settle. If MW clams (where?), troop deployment has to start now and it's still risky.
If not, I don't see that we will do anything about Atlantis before astronomy.

GA: I just don't think it's worth it with music first. After rifling, we can see whether the barbs already have music using the mouseover on the tech bar at the top of the screen. (i.e. "First to research gets a free GA" won't appear)

SW-clams gets my vote, we can wait on MW-clams.

LowtherCastle · May 12, 2009

klarius said:
There is still the question about where to settle. If MW clams (where?), troop deployment has to start now and it's still risky.
If not, I don't see that we will do anything about Atlantis before astronomy.

Of the four sites with clams in the FC, Clams NW requires 3 units, the other sires need 4 units. Clams NW has only 2 landing sites, plus city center. The other three sites have 3 landing sites.

Erkon said:
I prefer to settle MW-clams once we have reach Rifling to draw out the defenders from Atlantis. Then we can send two galleons with 6 paratroopers and capture the city before advancing to Shaka.

W/o the GA, we'd need 7-9t to research Astro. Say 9t for discussion purposes. Here is a turn-by-turn schedule of our para production (assuming a GA):

Code:

Paratroopers Built

    MW FF Mar C1 KT FL FP Total  Comments
    -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -----  --------
T93                              RIFLING done 
T94       
T95               A         1    Sent toward Libyan (Stalin)
T96  B         C            2    Hammi
T97     D                   1    Hammi
T98        E   F  G     H   4    G to Libyan, EFH to Hammi or Atlantis
T99  J               K      2    Atlantis      ..................
T100           L            1    Stalin        ....ASTRO done....
T101                                           ..................
T102 M                      1    Stalin        ..................
T103    N  P   Q        R   4    Wherever, if needed

              Grand Total: 16

Code:

Paratroopers Deployed, "best-case scenario"

     Hammi                            Barb  Shaka                  
     Dur-E   Bab-NE Akkad-SW  Galy/on Atlan Nob-2NW UmG-NW Ulun-NW 
     -----   ------ --------  ------- ----- ------- ------ ------- 
T93                                                               RIFLING 
T94       
T95 
T96  C  
T97  B
T98  D+capt 
T99          BCD              EF [s](+J if para can drop into vessel)[/s] [COLOR="Red"]tested--nope[/COLOR]     
T100         capt             HJ    
T101                BCD       K      capt
T102                capt                    EFHJK                         
T103                             
T104                                        capt            
etc.

Code:

Paratroopers Deployed

     Barb          Stalin
     KT-E Lib-SW   Yaro-W Mosc-2W
     ---- ------   ------ -------
T93                               RIFLING done 
T94       
T95  A
T96 
T97
T98  G      
T99 
T100           
T101
T102       A  
T103              
T104       
T105       GM+capt AL
T106               GM 
T107               N+capt AGLM
T108                      N 
T109                      capt        
etc.

This is how I read this:
1. FF needs to build a second galley before we get Rifling. We'll upgrade both galleys to galleons. We'll be able to dovetail the capture of Hammi, Atlantis, Shaka, and Stalin, all in about Rifling+20 turns.
2. All cities require needed improvements, for example. KT needs the fort for Stalin, but FP only needs one to help MR. We do not need MW Clams for Atlantis.
3. jesusin the Bloodthirsty is going to have one blast of a turnset (and of course, those builders that follow

).

EDIT: Above turns are off by a turn here and there because we cannot move the para a partial turn to a city or fort and still paradrop on teh same turn.

Gnejs · May 12, 2009

PPP looks good. I prefer settling SW clams and bringing in Music.

klarius · May 12, 2009

Finished turn set. Save
Report
Nothing bad happened. HE done. MoM in plan.
Researching rifling with 8-9 turns to go.

Erkon · May 12, 2009

klarius - nice play! :goodjob:

jesusin - you are next. Do you have time before making GOTM43?

He was an Islamic calligrapher born 886 in Baghdad (according to wikipedia)

EDIT: Hmm, what about Aluminium Co?

Gnejs · May 12, 2009

Great play, klarius! :goodjob:

I hope we can start developing Mosquito soon. Seriously, we need plenty of worker turns still.

LowtherCastle · May 12, 2009

Excellent job, klarius!!!

jesusin · May 13, 2009

Erkon said:
jesusin - you are next.

Me? This is going fast!
Ok, that way I won't have to use any of those horrible paratroopers, time to get cathedrals up and running!

Erkon said:
Do you have time before making GOTM43?

I woke up this morning at 5:00 a.m. to have 2 hours to finish the testing. Should be ready in another couple of hours.

I'll try to prepare a PPP this afternoon. I'd like to play on Friday, but only if we are all confortable with the PPP.
Any suggestions what to research after Rifling? I'd say Astro is our next priority.

LowtherCastle · May 13, 2009

jesusin said:
I woke up this morning at 5:00 a.m. to have 2 hours to finish the testing.

Sounds like your wife is an early bird. That must be some test.

LowtherCastle · May 13, 2009

ZPV said:
GA: I just don't think it's worth it with music first. After rifling, we can see whether the barbs already have music using the mouseover on the tech bar at the top of the screen. (i.e. "First to research gets a free GA" won't appear)

Dang, ZPV, you are freaking observant! :goodjob:

I'd never noticed that. That's particularly helpful in this game with the barbs seeming to out-tech everyone.

jesusin · May 13, 2009

LowtherCastle said:
Sounds like your wife is an early bird.

Why? She was sleeping all along.

Ah, I know where you come from, you mean the clock alarm should have awakened her. I don't need a clock alarm to get up at any desired time, I just think about the time I want to get up next morning and it happens. (One of the advantages of being a sex machine, bip bip).

LowtherCastle said:
That must be some test.

You bet!

Erkon · May 13, 2009

jesusin - just to get you up to speed:

We still need lots of worker turns, as Gnejs pointed out, so keep building workers in FF
Complete the two last cottages at MW and let the chops go into MW. Build airport after MoM in MW.
C1 can build a couple of garisson archers for MW and archers to garisson newly captured cities. Please build at least one more airship, since paratroopers can't drop unless the tile is visible (for example through airship recon)
Build a fort 1E of KonTiki to enable us to reach Europe.
We may need two galleons to capture Atlantis. We can upgrade the galley, and build another galley in KonTiki. Or rush a Galleon in KonTiki. You also need to build a work boat for the Whales.
Please prepare KonTiki to rush a paratrooper once Rifling is in. Please grow KonTiki as much as possible to be able to rush two builds there quickly (Paratroopers and/or Galleon).

I'm fine with Astro.

To everyone: what to do with the Great People in MW? Settle scientist, yes? Settle Prophet (in C1 perhaps? Or in city where we build markets/grocery/bank such as Babylon? Or wall street city?) or build shrine (confu or christianity?)

What is the order of attack? Is everyone happy with LC's plan? Or shall we capture Atlantis before Hammurabi to reduce the risk that the barbs learn Liberalism/Feudalism?

LowtherCastle · May 13, 2009

My thoughts:

I agree with Erkon: build workers in FF and poprushing the galleon in KT would work too, I guess, but it means the second galleon attacks Atlantis 2 turns later. Maybe we'd rather build and upgrade a second galley @ 80g each for two.
Save all our GPs for GAges. We'll soon have a huge empire and we'll need all the hammers (for CHs if nothing else) and coins we can get our hands on.
Starting next turn work both corn in MW full-time. Feed MW like PIGS! Also, try to keep 12 base in MW.
Marble will need the preserve and 2 windmills.
C1 needs 1 windmill.
The fort at KT-E is vital.
FL needs the other winery, plus what klarius started.
FP needs to build windmills for next turnset.
MR could maybe build a windmill on the inland hill, unless klarius thinks we can safely improve the pigs.

jesusin · May 13, 2009

LowtherCastle said:
Feed MW like PIGS!

Sounds very good!
I'll start with myself, after all I'm part of MW, ain't I?

jesusin · May 13, 2009

I got it!

Q1
Research Rifling and save Liberalism for AssLine or someting similar?
Or research Liberalism, picking Rifling and then launching GA GAge and take the chance to revolt to FR at the same time as PolSta?

Q2
What are the favorite barb landing sites?

Q3
Is there any unit that we can prebuild and will get turned into a Paratrooper when we research Rifling (warrior->Spear style)? Is there any guide that states these kind of transformations?

EDIT: Please all: answer this questions then comment on the pink parts of the PPP then comment on the rest of the PPP.

jesusin · May 13, 2009

PPP T89-T97 v.2

MAIN GOALS

Complete Rifling, prepare our cities for mass Paratrooper production.
Settle SW Clams.
Avoid looking at FP. It depresses me so...

CITY BUILDS
MW: MoM-airport
FF: Worker-Worker-Worker
Marble: miss for SC, miss for KT, miss for the future
C1: Archers to generate money till 2 turns before Rifling is in, then airship to have a nice overflow into the first Paratrooper.
KT: Worker-Worker-WB-Galley to be upgraded-Whip a Paratrooper
FL: Odeon-Barracks-confu miss
FP: (Oh, no food here

) lh-WB-Galley to protect the clams, Odeon
MR: (oh, lh before Granary would have been better!) granary whipped T93 (asap), lh.
SC: Granary

CITY MM
MW: T89 change windmill with FF, recover it next turn with new pop.
FF: T89 change corn with MW. T89 use sea instead of forests.
Marble: give best tiles to MW as needed.
KT: T89 use 2 sea instead of 2 forests.
All: use improved tiles when available.

WORKER ACTIONS
(Ordered by priority)
Complete current tasks.
MW X+chops.
MR pigs.
KT Fort.
SC windmill in the tile the worker is in.
FP Windmills
Windmills and preserves all over the world, while workers move gradually South.

UNIT MOVES

Airship Scout SW, from mountain, to see sea barbs S. Then NW from mountain to see sea barbs N. Then rebase to KT and explore Andalucia. Then rebasse to Novgorod.
FL City mace ~~moves to MR pìgs~~ stays.
Archers reinforce MR and FL and MW.

DIPLOMACY
T89: Sell WM to everybody but Wang for whatever they have.
Rest: look for opportunities of doing money. Be generous with Aesth and the likes.

OTHERS
Civic switch: none, unless Rifling is got in my turnset
Religion change: none
Cities settled: SW Clams
Research: Rifling as fast as possible, then compass.
Launch GAge with GA when Rifling is completed. If GS spawned, settle; if GPro, keep.

STOPPING CRITERIA
Mid turnset.
Completing Rifling.
Unexpected occurrences.

V1

Spoiler :

SGOTM 09 - Murky Waters

Deity

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Deity

Short for ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF

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