SGOTM 09 - Murky Waters

Gnejs said:

How much would it cost to cash-rush Globe, if we have the Kremlin?

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It seems to me that the Globe should go in one of our biggest cities, either MR or UmGung.... I wouldn't want to get all hung up on using our resources for Atlantis, just to force a round peg into a square hole.

How about a market in MR instead of library to enable two merchants?

klarius said:

If we anyway don't think we can make anything out of Atlantis, we should again consider to blockade it, to reduce the barb science.

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I haven't given up hope on Atlantis. I'd rather capture it than starve it, with or without Moai. It's going to keep a ton of bldgs, has low maintenance and will provide a lot of beakers or cash. If we want them, it gives us Moai for free and I can't find a better place to put Moai. We can sustain pop15 with only one poprush if we keep lh, odeon, and market and put together 25 total. If we don't keep good bldgs, we can poprush them instead of Moai. I don't see why we wouldn't capture it in the near future, the sooner the better (after Ulundi).

pop15*1.6=24+1=25 needed

Erkon said:

How about a market in MR instead of library to enable two merchants?

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We get the library and uni at half price. On the other hand, we'll need the happies.

Brings up a question: Shouldn't we be building forges (need MC) in cities where we want to crank out a lot of bldgs? Maybe we should research Astro-MC...Biol?

klarius said:

If we anyway don't think we can make anything out of Atlantis, we should again consider to blockade it, to reduce the barb science.

Edit:
One thing to keep in mind:
The barb galleys may attack galleons, at least if adjacent to Atlantis. 4 galleys will sink a galleon pretty likely.

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Yes, but the rally point 1E of cow is four tiles from Atlantis, so it should be safe.

klarius said:

603g with Kremlin. 906g w/o.

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Is this with or without any hammers in it? Anyway, this is peanuts. It will pay back many time this. Lets see: capture at pop 29, rush theatre-> pop 28, rush globe -> pop 27.

Starve from 27 to 10: 323 specialist turns * philosophical, pacifism, golden age = 3876 gpp, 1938 beakers/gold. Wouldn't this amount to 8-9 great people?

LowtherCastle said:

I'm all for skipping that fort, useful as it may be in the short run. I still lke jesusin's windmill for C1. The other worker could road the iron and the cows while waiting to farm from Dur-K to the wheat (only four tiles to the wheat instead of 6 from the clams river). Dur-K will need to be farmed anyway and will be a great producer in the long run.

Plus, will we ever settle the clams? Where will we put the Moais? The fish spot to the east of FL rice has about 12 coastal tiles. Lots of questions, actually. I can't really find a better location for Moai than Atlantis, even if Atlantis can grow past pop14-15. At least we get Moai for free there, right?

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Why shouldn't we settle clams? If we are going for a specialist economy then we want to work all possible food tiles. Clams has plenty of them. Btw, Assyrian also has twelve coastal tiles...

Edit: And that windmill is a negative food tile. We don't want to work such tiles if we can avoid it.

Ok, final question before I play: DoW Hammurabi or not?

I am a little concerned that he will whip and airlift units faster than we can kill them. We also lose some potential trade routes. Thinking of waiting until I have at least two paras.

Gnejs said:

Ok, final question before I play: DoW Hammurabi or not?

I am a little concerned that he will whip and airlift units faster than we can kill them. We also lose some potential trade routes. Thinking of waiting until I have at least two paras.

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Wait with DoW to enable trade routes. Perhaps wait until Astro to loose no trade at all?

Turnset report, T97-105

T97:
Sell techs for gold, currency to Stalin, Shaka, Music to the others. Has Huyana Capac always had only two cities?
Poprush Granary in SWC. MM as per plan.
Since I am not DoWing Hammurabi yet I rebase the airship to Umgung. It is defended by a Swordsman and an airship. Two workers adjacent building a dye plantation.

IBT:
-

T98:
Paratrooper jumps over the ocean, makes landfall near Assyrian. I wonder what the warrior and archers there are thinking. Gods from the sky?
Scout a little bit more at Ulundi. A handful of defenders, swords, axes. Hun is "defended" by three archers and 15 CR3 melee units (maces, axes, swords)
Only Joao has 10 gold. Getting Astro in time looks difficult.

IBT:
Hammurabi completes Statue of Zeus in Babylon.

T99:
MM a bit more. I think I can get Astro in 2t, but not upgrade the galley until the turn after. Will not whip the Para in FF, instead para#1 from C1 will also board a ship.

IBT:
Barb galley 3W of Atlantis. Lucky that we will have some idle paras in that area...
1.6/2 barb galley at FP. Moving an airship to that area to be able to help our healthy galley defend our nets.

T100:
Joao has Engineering and will trade! Eng+10 gold for CS+Calendar+Compass, or Eng for CS+Compass+10g. As we need the gold I do the first trade.
HC has Feudalism.
Get 10 gold from Shaka, enabling me to get Astro in 1t. Reviewing para builds, galleon moves etc.

IBT:
Barb galleys move closer

T101:
Astro in, KT galleon completed. About 30 gold short of being able to upgrade the galley. Stopping for mid-turn break since it is getting late here. Save attached.
View attachment Pericles AD-0820_2.CivBeyondSwordSave

...continuing...

Poprush para in FF. Load up Galleon with 3 paras, and reduce slider so we can upgrade galley next turn.
Stalin gets the trade of his life, 5 techs including Compass for 10 gold. Becomes pleased
Trade some resources to HC.
Set research to Chemistry.
No poprushing of lighthouses. They will be done anyway in 2-3 turns and we need to grow our cities now.

IBT:
Wang Kon adopts caste.
Barbs land 2x CR3 Maces at FL.

T102:
What a complete and utter moron I am!

Get 10 gold from Shaka, enabling me to get Astro in 1t.

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We have a peace treaty with Shaka for another 8 turns. :suicide:

Change of plans: delay Dow Shaka until peace treaty ends. Arrange to dow Hammurabi at earliest opportunity (I want 3 paras)

IBT:
-

T103:
Get rid of barbs, more on the way. Kill barb archer in Libyan

IBT:
HC completes Colossus
Barb archer airlifted into LIibyan

T104:
Kill barb archer in Libyan. etc

IBT:
Barb sword airlifted into Libyan. Archer upgraded to Longbow

T105:
Ending this nightmare. Sorry for the complete mess I am leaving you with. Uploading save.

LowtherCastle said:

I haven't given up hope on Atlantis. I'd rather capture it than starve it, with or without Moai. It's going to keep a ton of bldgs, has low maintenance and will provide a lot of beakers or cash. If we want them, it gives us Moai for free and I can't find a better place to put Moai. We can sustain pop15 with only one poprush if we keep lh, odeon, and market and put together 25 total. If we don't keep good bldgs, we can poprush them instead of Moai. I don't see why we wouldn't capture it in the near future, the sooner the better (after Ulundi).

pop15*1.6=24+1=25 needed

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I agree. Whip Moai regardless, for 8pop, then whip Market or LH if still needed, and it costs fewer pop to than to just build them while starving, then just plain build any other infrastructure needed.
It can anyway support 1 angry citizen, while waiting on whip anger, and after that a pop15 city is one worth having.

Gnejs said:

Has Huyana Capac always had only two cities? Yes

It is defended by a Swordsman and an airship. Two workers adjacent building a dye plantation. Get three paras down there asap!

Getting Astro in time looks difficult.

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Well, that was the main point of capturing Dur-K... No biggee. Just make sure the galleon are in position to amphibiously atttack UmGung in 4t.

LowtherCastle said:

Well, that was the main point of capturing Dur-K... No biggee. Just make sure the galleon are in position to amphibiously atttack UmGung in 4t.

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There is four defenders in Dur-K. I doubt we would have captured it in time anyway.

Gnejs said:

There is four defenders in Dur-K. I doubt we would have captured it in time anyway.

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Nope. We only had 3 attacks available. Unless they suicided IT, of course. You made the right choice.

Nice play Gnejs!

Good news on Astro and Eng.

Very good news on Statue of Zeus

Do we need more than one Galleon? EDIT: do we need to upgrade that galley? It will cost us 150 beakers.

LC - it seams like attacking Hammurabi would have delayed the attack on Shaka after all?

EDIT: Rats - I thought of Schwedagon

Gnejs, if you send the galleon into Umu once captured, then the paratroopers onboard can jump directly to Ulundi, yes?

Gnejs said:

Turnset report, T97-105

Scout a little bit more at Ulundi. A handful of defenders, swords, axes. Hun is "defended" by three archers and 15 CR3 melee units (maces, axes, swords)

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Great play, Gnejs!

Looks like Shaka will have a little problem when we take Ulundi. Do the cities have shorter revolts if we let the barbs take them, and then capture them from the barbs?

Erkon said:

Gnejs, if you send the galleon into Umu once captured, then the paratroopers onboard can jump directly to Ulundi, yes?

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If they still have full movement points, you can move into port via ship, and paradrop the same turn. The ones which attacked cannot drop until the next turn. Also note that units on ships don't defend, IIRC.

Short term questions:
Do we keep building hairy paratroopers or do we start building nice and useful Observatories?


LongTerm question:
Are we going to use <<the civic that takes away distance costs>>, incurring the loss of all the benefits we are used to from our current civic?

I'd like to see the answer to these 2 questions now, as they will determine how much to conquest.

jesusin said:

Short term questions:
Do we keep building hairy paratroopers or do we start building nice and useful Observatories?


LongTerm question:
Are we going to use <<the civic that takes away distance costs>>, incurring the loss of all the benefits we are used to from our current civic?

I'd like to see the answer to these 2 questions now, as they will determine how much to conquest.

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Keep building paratroopers (apart from MW of course)

Switch to State Property asap (aka <<the civic that takes away all the benefits we are used to>>)

Looking good, Gnejs. Can you imagine? Shaka wants to trade our dyes to us! Some people...

Thoughts:

• Trade lots of resources to HC for faster plusmods. He needs wine, fish, plus we can hook up fur, iron, and cows for him.
• Research MC next and immediately build forges in MW, MR, SWC. They easily pay off.
• MR and SWC--poprush lh immediately-build forge
• Marble--work MW's idle cottage
• Workers at FP--What's your plan? They're about to waste mucho turnso moving. Best I can figure is send two to the MR hill, where they windmill then go farming separately. The northen two go to start farming the FP NE diagonal toward the FL rice. Got a better idea?
• Marble para can be on the KT galleon leaving from MW-3e1se by paradropping to the hill, then boarding the waiting galley, which moves 1se THEN upgrades (if we're going to upgrade it). I know, you already had this figured out...
• We can now paradrop straight to Babylon from the fort he kindly prepared for us. Lessens our WW from Zeus and maybe catches him with his pants down.