SGOTM 09 - Murky Waters

Erkon · Jun 1, 2009

Hammi is not willing to peace for Sippar and Opis. Will try capitulation then.

Nope, Hammi will not accept any treaty involving any cities. Only techs. So what now then?

A. Peace for Techs
B. Capitulation for Techs

RSVP

ZPV · Jun 1, 2009

Good luck, then!

Gnejs · Jun 1, 2009

Erkon said:
Hammi is not willing to peace for Sippar and Opis. Will try capitulation then.

And......?

Erkon · Jun 1, 2009

Gnejs said:
And......?

Check post above and this post

Gnejs · Jun 1, 2009

Erkon said:
Check post above and this post

I have a sinking feeling here. Are we going to miss out on the medals even? And everything was going well until I screwed up. Sigh.

We need to turn around this and start catching up with the competition again. I say screw Hammi. Make him a vassal and forget about him. Pillage the windmills and roads at Babylon. Then take all your paras and capture as many Shaka cities in as short time as possible. We need to farm the whole of North America and the whole of Africa and Europe so we can run my 100 representation specialists. Then, when we have unlocked the space techs we transform some select cities into production powerhouses by building workshops, levees, and factories.

LowtherCastle · Jun 1, 2009

Vassalize for techs. No girlie peace treaty. Set those three workers to making the 6 forest preserves. Don't kill any windmills we can use for NatPark. Poprush market in MR, etc. Calmly play your turnset to the end doing lots of pleasurable MM and warmongering on Shaka...

What are you planning to do with Ulundi? Think ahead carefully and forget about Hammi. He's history.

Erkon · Jun 1, 2009

Gnejs said:
We need to turn around this and start catching up with the competition again. I say screw Hammi. Make him a vassal and forget about him. Pillage the windmills and roads at Babylon. Then take all your paras and capture as many Shaka cities in as short time as possible. We need to farm the whole of North America and the whole of Africa and Europe so we can run my 100 representation specialists. Then, when we have unlocked the space techs we transform some select cities into production powerhouses by building workshops, levees, and factories.

Good strategy. It sounds very simple. I hope the other guys in the team manages to implement it, since both you and I seem to just mess up :lol:

LowtherCastle said:
Vassalize for techs. No girlie peace treaty. Set those three workers to making the 6 forest preserves. Don't kill any windmills we can use for NatPark. Poprush market in MR, etc. Calmly play your turnset to the end doing lots of pleasurable MM and warmongering on Shaka...

What are you planning to do with Ulundi? Think ahead carefully and forget about Hammi. He's history.

Ok, vassalize for techs then. Ulundi? Why, Kill'em All of course! I will jump this turn.

LowtherCastle · Jun 1, 2009

and don't send the galleons to Timbuktu

Gnejs · Jun 1, 2009

Erkon said:
And Ulundi falls.

Finally! Some good news! :clap:

Erkon · Jun 1, 2009

Save uploaded. Over to you, LC.

Session Turn Log from 1020 AD to 1100 AD:

Spoiler :

Erkon · Jun 1, 2009

Session Turn Log from 1100 AD to 1180 AD:

Spoiler :

LowtherCastle · Jun 2, 2009

Got it.

Took a quick look.
1. We have NatPark in 8t, so at that time we'd probably want to revolt to CS and representation, right? Taj won't happen, but I assume MW could produce another GP by then. That would mean we're about to stop poprushing.
2. Our research is all hung up waiting for Philo and Guilds, and we need MC too. At this point, it seems to make more sense to bulb most of PP than research it, assuming we'll have an abundance of GSes eventually. If we're going to keep on capturing cities, SP will also look good. Or should we beeline Corp and use Sushi to build up our pop first? (kind of expensive, I guess)
3. Where do we want NE?
4. Where do we want Oxford? (that is, do we need more happy bldgs in MR or not?)
5.
6.
...to be continued...check back frequently...

klarius · Jun 2, 2009

A few observations:
Hammi is researching paper, which is the last thing we want him to do. Change!
HC is WFYABTA. There is no chance to get him to friendly (with us and Hammi). So forget about trades from him.
Joao would trade Philo (Angkor out of the way) if either friendly (he is friendly with Hammi), which could be done by converting to Christ, or if he meets HC . The former looks costly currently, the latter may happen any turn now or much too late. We probably could still force it by gifting away a city (which we could retake, costing a juicy trade route).

Don't expect the barbs to finish Shaka. At least not fast. I'm pretty sure the target city on this continent is still Ulundi, where the barbs cannot get to. Maybe they get moving when the target city is randomly reset to none, but that can take long. There is also the possibility that Hun has galleys by now, but that will just lead to the barbs losing their troops slowly, as 2 maces at a time will not have good odds against an AI city (another 40% penalty).

The big question now is really if we head for SP. That means more cities is better.
Otherwise we should build courthouses now quickly and restrict further acquisitions to top cities (which aren't abundant).
I think we should go for SP, to be researched (not slingshot) soon.
We can research PP now, if we want, to wait a bit for a philosophy and/or MC trade. There is no gain in saving this for GS. If we have GS to bulb they can go into a lot of other techs, we still need after PP (electricity-fission ...).

LowtherCastle · Jun 2, 2009

klarius said:
I think we should go for SP, to be researched (not slingshot) soon.

We can research PP now, if we want, to wait a bit for a philosophy and/or MC trade. There is no gain in saving this for GS. If we have GS to bulb they can go into a lot of other techs, we still need after PP (electricity-fission ...).

I also don't see any good alternative to Communism asap. So we would need to decide which tech to slingshot.

Code:

           cost   benefits
Steel      2804   ironworks (need 6 forges)
Electric   4507   +1g windmill  
Rocketry   5008   apollo
Genetics   7011   +3health

The benefit of bulbing PP, in my eyes, is that we're wasting beakers by not having the +1g bonus, but at the same time, we need to research other stuff now. If we're able to get a GS pretty soon (in Bab with 13 sci, for example), then we can focus on the Communism beeline AND get the PP bonus relatively soon. If we want to switch to SP in about 8t, at the same time as Rep and CS, then I don't think we'll have enough cash to support the 4t of 100% research for Lib and Communism, if we do PP first. Depends on our war plunder.

Code:

      beakers  gold needed 
PP    1500      350  
Lib   1400      400
Comm  2800      800
        
Total gold needed 1550
Gold reserves: 271
Trades:        160   
Total:         431

Still needed: 1100 from trade and plunder in 8 turns = 140gpt needed

Guess you want me to bloody my hands a bit, huh?

If we're certain that HC is out, then we can start trading with WK, right?

LowtherCastle · Jun 2, 2009

Questions for Erkon (or whoever):
1. What units were in Bula and other Shaka cities?
2. How recent is our view of Joao's land? That is, are those unowned tiles still available for settling? Ed: Never mind. Leiria 4S should still be available and we can settle it on T123, which is soon enough.

ZPV · Jun 2, 2009

Slingshot Electricity. This will make up for the lost coins on windmills, and make watermills a viable option in Dur-K (compared with farms + workshops)
Not Rocketry: we won't build Apollo before Aluminium
Not Genetics: the only city that will benefit soon is MW.
Not Steel: too cheap, we have no forges.

Are we going to settle Atlantis-Clams any time soon?

Skip PP for now (or keep on it at 0% until Philo is available). We will run merchants in Babylon at the start, letting us increase the slider. We also get more from a GM trade mission - we can use some of the gold from it to pay for researching PP if we think that's the best option.

klarius · Jun 2, 2009

LowtherCastle said:
If we're certain that HC is out, then we can start trading with WK, right?

We don't want HC annoyed and cancel OB. And we soon will lose the civic bonus. Other than that the attitude of HC isn't interesting anymore.

LowtherCastle · Jun 2, 2009

Pre-Play-Plan T119-127

Pre-Play-Plan OVERVIEW

Prepare for SP/Rep/CS. Go on an African safari. Send a galleon to Antarctica.

BUILD QUEUE

MW: levee-temple-Hanging Gardens
FF: observ(pr)-settler1-harbor
Mar: misses
C1: ~4pikes-para(?) Do we have enough paras already?
KT: obs-harbor-lab
FL: observ-settler2-settler3-forge
FP: uni--galleon-obs galleon to explore Antarctica
MR: harbor-theatre-aqueduct
SWC: settler4-lab Need 4 settlers: gold, spices, incense, clams
Liby: lib-levee-forge
uMu: levee-gran(pr)-levee(pr) Note: pr=poprush
Bab: NP-lib
Dur-K: levee (no theatre)
Nippur: granary(pr)-theatre-lib (theatre for the deer)
Akkad: lh(pr)-granary
Ulu: levee

WAR SEQUENCE

T120 Bula
T121 Nodwengo
T122 Ndond
T123 Assyrian. kwa, Ondini, Nongama from sea. (All these paras attack Hun together, in case of barb suicides.)
T124 Nobamba
T12? New City

UNIT MOVES

Libyan: 1 MW para, then maybe later another. Unneeded paras airlift here.

Hun Campaign
Mar/C1/Dur-K: 3+3 paras go east to board galleon chain leaving T120/T122. 2 paras may stay in Dur-K for a bit. First 3 paras go to attack Kwa, then Hun. Second 3 paras go to capture Nongoma, then Hun.
Ulu: four paras go to Bula, then 3 go to Ondina, then Hun. The fourth escorts the Suez settler.
Two galleons go to Hun.

Nobamba Campaign
Two MW paras immediately board galleon for N'dond.
uMu para drops to Nobwengo.
Nobwengo: para captures 2 workers, then back to Nobwengo. Then both go to N'dond or Nobamba, as needed. After Nobamba, they will clean up the new northern city.

New City
Suez escort attempts to capture en route.

First Conf Miss does Dur-K. If successful, second goes to uMu, third to Ulu, fourth to Hun?
Christ Miss goes to MW.

WORKER ACTIONS

MW: Mine coal
Bab: all preserves + 1 mine (not this but next turn--slows down lib 1t, but not HE, if built here)
Dur-K: a couple farms, then watermills, chop levee
FF: farm over preserve
Marble: farm unique cottage
KT: chop lumbermills, build workshops
C1: road to Dur-K, more farms, then wkshps
FL: farms-wkshps
FP: farm over fort
MR: farms/2 wkshps, then pre-farm wkshps
uMu: farms/chops
Ulu: chop levee
Cows-1N: chop tile in advance-pasture cows

CITY MM

Nippur borrows 2f windmill from Bab for 1t
Prioritize new farms over merchants in MR to store up food
whipping only as sensible
pillage Bab hill roads each time Hammi builds them :mad:

DIPLOMATIC ACTIONS

Gift HC Cu, Fe, corn, dye, fur so we can get gpt + gold from WK
Trade for cash:
Stalin for Drama
gpt and cash from WK
etc.
Have Hammi research guilds(?), Nationalism when possible(?)
Demand that Hammi go bureau
Get Philo from Joao
Get MC from whomever or research

DoW Ghandi, but only if he appears in a space colony

STOP CRITERIA

Unusual occurrences
Mid-turnset break

OTHERS

Research: PP(2)-Steel@0%(1 or 2t)-(MC, maybe before Steel if I can get about zero overflow)-(Philo)-Lib(2t)(+Elect)-Comm(2t)
Civic change: None
Religion change: None
Cities settled: Leiria-4S (for HC); Suez Canal; Atlantis Clams (Cows-1N), or should we settle spices or gold?

jesusin · Jun 2, 2009

LowtherCastle said:
Gift HC Cu, Fe, corn, dye, fur so we can get gpt + gold from WK

I don't understand the meaning of this sentence. How's gifting HC helping to get things from WK?

NE is to be built in Bab, with the NatPark, isn't it?

Gnejs · Jun 2, 2009

Great play, Erkon! :goodjob:

I am a little bit less depressed about the state of our game now...

LowtherCastle said:
Pre-Play-Plan T119-127

Pre-Play-Plan OVERVIEW

Prepare for SP/Rep/CS.
Why only prepare? What are you waiting for? Representation now!

BUILD QUEUE

MR: obs-theatre-temple MR needs happiness above anything else.

WORKER ACTIONS

MR: a couple of wkshps and farms Wouldn't it be better with all farms, assuming we have the happiness for it?

OTHERS
Research: PP(2)-Rocketry@0%(2t)-Lib(2t)(+Elect)-Comm(2t)
Civic change: None
Religion change: None
Cities settled: Leiria-4S (for HC); Atlantis Clams (Cows-1N), or should we settle spices or gold?

How are you supporting such a high tech rate?
Will the settler NW of Marble settle at Leira 4S? What for? Joao and HC should meet pretty soon anyway.
Why no civic changes now that we finally have the Pyramids?

SGOTM 09 - Murky Waters

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