Fall Further 051 Bug Report Thread

Log Random Numbers didn't do it, I assure you. All it does is output numbers to a log, not change any ingame settings that might cause an OOS. What mapscript were you playing on?

Iceciro said:

Log Random Numbers didn't do it, I assure you. All it does is output numbers to a log, not change any ingame settings that might cause an OOS. What mapscript were you playing on?

Click to expand...

ty for clarifying that suspision of mine (im not too great withh all of this) but i was on the Erebus maptype and chose the Use the erebus map point start (think it referes to it as Flavour start)

In my somewhat modded version I find a really annoying bug whenever I play as the Sidar. The graphical interface doesn't update, in such a way as I remember broken kfm files causing before. Strangely it always seems to fix itself whenever a great person is born and then break again the next turn.

Edit: Ok, now I'm thinking this is something I broke and not a base FF issue. I added a Sidar Elder Council UU which provides GPP for Shades, and I think the problem is that the GPP bar at the top of the screen can't find an icon to represent this type of great person. Right after a great person is born there are no Shade GPP left, so it does not have the problem until more are generated the next turn. I just used worldbuilder to give that UB to another civ and had the same problem.

Edit2: Yeah, that was the problem. Editing GPUtils.py so that Shades use the same icon as adventurers fixed it.

I think the problem is that a unique GPP icon is needed for them. maybe. Xienwolf would know..

Commander-given promotions stick around when a unit is upgraded, even if the unit's class changes to one that does not allow that promotion. If a warrior has a melee-only promotion, and is granted a promotion by a commander, and then I upgrade that warrior to an archer, the melee-only promotion is "stuck" on the unit.

playing scions , 6 AI with me
in the middle of the Ai turn game crush

thank you

Hello All --

Just wanted to respond to a few things. Forgive me if part of this post is cross-posted in the "Balance" thread; couldn't figure out how to delete my recent post from there.

First, I noticed that as the Dural I can't seem to build the FoL school once I have a College of Theology. This is listed as a pending bug on the first page of this thread needing a save to replicate. I am using FF .51 with Patch B. Well, see a save attached! The city Newshore is the Holy FoL city, has a College of Theology, and I have built the OO school, but can't build the FoL one.

Some other Dural notes --

I have built a College of Theology and the School of the Dreamer (which BTW is awesome, +1 food and +1 commerce on each sea tile, added with a few fish resources and a lighthouse makes a juggernaut of a city.)

I have also adopted OO as my state religion. However, I can't built Stygian Guards because I can't build a Temple of the Overlords. They do appear in the list of possible units to build, but are unselectable because of the lack of a temple.

I understand all of the thematic reasons why the Dural can't build temples. However, for more clarity for players can I suggest one of two two options?:

1. Make Stygian Guards unbuildable for Dural, and list them as such the wiki. In fact, make all units which require a temple unbuildable and indicate as such in the wiki for the Dural.
2. Make the "School of the Dreamer" a replacement for the Temple of the Overlords which would allow Stygian guards to be built. Perhaps make all of the "Schools" replacements for their various temples, as the same issue will occur with other units that require Temples (Ratha, I think, also Crusaders?)

One other issue with the Dural. It would be really nice if the Professor could have a unit upgrade path. None is listed right now. Something not battle-oriented as that doesn't make much sense, perhaps a better "assist" role? The unit could be called a "Professor Emeritus". Or maybe they could upgrade into Tacticians at Level 4 or 6? Or Great people (seems relevant and not too game-breaking given that you have to build a college which is not cheap to get professors and they aren't the easist units in the world to get experience for anyway.)

Thanks!

EDIT: One other item; making the Dural schools as the "Replacement" for the Temples would make the Spiritual Trait more useful when Dannmos gets his regular adaptive pick. Spiritual permits doubled construction speed of temples and although I haven't checked, I don't think it would currently give doubled production speed for Schools. Although the Schools are very cheap in the first place (like 30 hammers) so perhaps this isn't such a big deal. Perhaps Spiritual for Dural should also give doubled production speed on the College of Theology? That costs about 220 hammers, quite costly.

Amurites cast Arcana Lacuna if there is 7 different manas on the map (and they have 1 adept), guess what? 7 UFs do that

A bug with modular Xml, from my spider’s module, simaler to the defence strength bug.
The FF native greater promos change the spiders’ unit types from Animal to Beast. When I created a modular file to change the art define as below, they remained as animals.

Adaptive trait, when changing traits, removes a civ's civilization trait from units. Test this by playing as Deidra of the Austrian, change to aggressive, and now trackers get combat 1 but not adventurer.

-Colin

readercolin said:

Adaptive trait, when changing traits, removes a civ's civilization trait from units. Test this by playing as Deidra of the Austrian, change to aggressive, and now trackers get combat 1 but not adventurer.

-Colin

Click to expand...

Thanks for noticing this. THAT explains why adveturer wasn't being given to units properly. I noticed that issue, but didn';t catch on to the cause.

Hello All --

Working on tracking down the Dural problem I posted a save on in post 767 with some Schools not being buildable. Looking at CIV4BuildingClassInfos.xml, I did find that the iCost tag was missing from the School of Cernunnos. Adding this in allowed me to build it.

The School of the Fallen one had an extra XML tag that none of the other schools had -- <bPrereqReligion>1</bPrereqReligion>. I'm not sure what that was for, but removing it allowed me to build that school. I also checked in other cities that did not have the Veil to make sure that the School was not universally buildable. Things looked good, nobody else but that one city could build the Veil school.

Here is the update I made in CIV4BuildingClassInfos.xml:

This is for Cernunnos

<BuildingInfo> <!-- School Of Cernunnos --><!-- Must be after School of Theology in XML -->
<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_SCHOOL_OF_CERNUNNOS</BuildingClass>
<Type>BUILDING_SCHOOL_OF_CERNUNNOS</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_SCHOOL_OF_CERNUNNOS</Description>
<Civilopedia></Civilopedia>
<Advisor>ADVISOR_MILITARY</Advisor>
<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BUILDING_MONUMENT</ArtDefineTag>
<ReligionType>RELIGION_FELLOWSHIP_OF_LEAVES</ReligionType>
<PrereqReligion>RELIGION_FELLOWSHIP_OF_LEAVES</PrereqReligion>
<bNeverCapture>1</bNeverCapture>
<iCost>30</iCost>
<iHurryCostModifier>50</iHurryCostModifier>
<iConquestProb>0</iConquestProb>
<iHealth>3</iHealth>
<iAsset>2</iAsset>
<iPower>4</iPower>
<ObsoleteSafeCommerceChanges>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
</ObsoleteSafeCommerceChanges>
<CommerceChangeDoubleTimes>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
</CommerceChangeDoubleTimes>
<CommerceModifiers>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>15</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
</CommerceModifiers>
<BuildingClassNeededs>
<BuildingClassNeeded>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_COLLEGE_OF_THEOLOGY</BuildingClassType>
<bNeededInCity>1</bNeededInCity>
</BuildingClassNeeded>
</BuildingClassNeededs>
<Flavors>
<Flavor>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_MILITARY</FlavorType>
<iFlavor>10</iFlavor>
</Flavor>
</Flavors>
<bGraphicalOnly>1</bGraphicalOnly>
</BuildingInfo>

Click to expand...

And for the Fallen One:

<BuildingInfo> <!-- School Of The Fallen One --><!-- Must be after School of Theology in XML -->
<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_SCHOOL_OF_THE_FALLEN_ONE</BuildingClass>
<Type>BUILDING_SCHOOL_OF_THE_FALLEN_ONE</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_SCHOOL_OF_THE_FALLEN_ONE</Description>
<Civilopedia></Civilopedia>
<Advisor>ADVISOR_MILITARY</Advisor>
<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BUILDING_MONUMENT</ArtDefineTag>
<ReligionType>RELIGION_THE_ASHEN_VEIL</ReligionType>
<PrereqReligion>RELIGION_THE_ASHEN_VEIL</PrereqReligion>
<bNeverCapture>1</bNeverCapture>
<iCost>30</iCost>
<iHurryCostModifier>50</iHurryCostModifier>
<iConquestProb>0</iConquestProb>
<iWarWearinessModifier>50</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iEnemyWarWearinessModifier>20</iEnemyWarWearinessModifier>
<iAsset>2</iAsset>
<iPower>4</iPower>
<ObsoleteSafeCommerceChanges>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
</ObsoleteSafeCommerceChanges>
<CommerceChangeDoubleTimes>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
</CommerceChangeDoubleTimes>
<CommerceModifiers>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>15</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
</CommerceModifiers>
<FreeSpecialistCounts>
<SpecialistCount>
<SpecialistType>SPECIALIST_SCIENTIST</SpecialistType>
<iSpecialistCount>1</iSpecialistCount>
</SpecialistCount>
</FreeSpecialistCounts>
<BuildingClassNeededs>
<BuildingClassNeeded>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_COLLEGE_OF_THEOLOGY</BuildingClassType>
<bNeededInCity>1</bNeededInCity>
</BuildingClassNeeded>
</BuildingClassNeededs>
<Flavors>
<Flavor>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_MILITARY</FlavorType>
<iFlavor>10</iFlavor>
</Flavor>
</Flavors>
<bGraphicalOnly>1</bGraphicalOnly>
</BuildingInfo>

Click to expand...

Hope it helps!

Thanks,

jrandrew.

jrandrew said:

Hope it helps!

Thanks,

jrandrew.

Click to expand...

Thanks for this. I've committed these fixes. The schools will be sorted in patch C.

bPrerqReligion is a base Civ tag that actually requires the city to have 0 religions present.

Thanks for taking the time to find the cause of these issues

xienwolf said:

bPrerqReligion is a base Civ tag that actually requires the city to have 0 religions present.

Thanks for taking the time to find the cause of these issues

Click to expand...

You are welcome! Thanks for all of your hard work! I have not had the time to get into Python hacking (day job with tons of PL-SQL and other languages take up most of my mental real estate) but XML is easy enough.

bPrerqReligion actually sounds very interesting. That could be useful for a Dural or even better, Grigori special kind of building that requires no religion. It would make using Inquisition and/or preventing ANY religious spread have more of a point, also very thematically appropriate for them.

"Hall of Blasphemy", "School of Skepticism", "Nietzsche's Nook", something like that. Could offer Magic Resistance to units built in the city ("Nyah Nyah we don't believe in fireballs"), perhaps additional adventurer points to Grigori, or perhaps automatically grant the Inquisitor trait to Grigori Lunnotars or some special Divine unit of some sort.

Richard Dawkins would have a field day.

So, been looking at them a bit more. First of all, they should be able to build museums but are not able to. This is because they have two entries in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml for BUILDINGCLASS_PAGAN_TEMPLE, but the second is marked with a BuildingType of NONE. I deleted the second entry, and left the first one, which reads:


As I mentioned before, I think they should be restricted from even building any of the units which require temples (Stygian Guards, Paramanders, Crusaders, and Beasts of Agares.) I know that this starts to get out of the realm of a "bug" and is more into design decisions, but it seems the simplest and most straightforward fix for now. More modifications for the Dural in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml:


I might also eliminate Rathas even though they don't require Empyrean temples because they are the equivalent of "Tier 2" units like Paramanders. I didn't eliminate the Nightwatch because they're less religious and more, well, pragmatic. I can see the Dural adopting a religion for a pragmatic motivation.

Now, to get even more aggressive, it's pretty clear from the Civilopedia that the Dural don't build temples. Some may worship gods, but all of them are definitely on the reserved side about it. If they can't build temples, why can they build any of the Holy City buildings? In my most recent game I still was incentivized to go for the religions to try to build the Holy Cities because I had an early tech lead. I think the Dural should be somewhat discouraged from doing this. Also, why would they build the Temple of Temporance, the Prophecy of Ragnarok, or the Tower of Complacency?

Yet more edits to CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml:


I thought about restricting them from building the Altar of the Luonnotar, but the Grigori can build it, so that seemed both inconsistent and overly restrictive on playstyle.

Hope this isn't too much. Take what's useful, leave the rest.

Thanks!

EDIT: Similar things for Grigori. They can't build temples, so the units requiring temples should probably be blocked. Also, if the Dural are explicitly blocked from building the priest and high priest units, shouldn't the Grigori be as well?

EDIT2: Temple of the Veil is required for a Demons' Altar, so both Grigori and Dural should probably be blocked from that too... Added above...

EDIT3: Separate thread started under title "Dynamic Dural" at WarKirby's request.

jrandrew said:

So, been looking at them a bit more. First of all, they should be able to build museums but are not able to. This is because they have two entries in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml for BUILDINGCLASS_PAGAN_TEMPLE, but the second is marked with a BuildingType of NONE. I deleted the second entry, and left the first one, which reads:

Code:

<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_PAGAN_TEMPLE</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_MUSEUM</BuildingType>
</Building>

As I mentioned before, I think they should be restricted from even building any of the units which require temples (Stygian Guards, Paramanders, Crusaders, and Beasts of Agares.) I know that this starts to get out of the realm of a "bug" and is more into design decisions, but it seems the simplest and most straightforward fix for now. More modifications for the Dural in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml:

Code:

				<Unit>
					<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_STYGIAN_GUARD</UnitClassType>
					<UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
				</Unit>	
				<Unit>
					<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_PARAMANDER</UnitClassType>
					<UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
				</Unit>						
				<Unit>
					<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_CRUSADER</UnitClassType>
					<UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
				</Unit>	
				<Unit>
					<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_BEAST_OF_AGARES</UnitClassType>
					<UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
				</Unit>

I might also eliminate Rathas even though they don't require Empyrean temples because they are the equivalent of "Tier 2" units like Paramanders. I didn't eliminate the Nightwatch because they're less religious and more, well, pragmatic. I can see the Dural adopting a religion for a pragmatic motivation.

Now, to get even more aggressive, it's pretty clear from the Civilopedia that the Dural don't build temples. Some may worship gods, but all of them are definitely on the reserved side about it. If they can't build temples, why can they build any of the Holy City buildings? In my most recent game I still was incentivized to go for the religions to try to build the Holy Cities because I had an early tech lead. I think the Dural should be somewhat discouraged from doing this. Also, why would they build the Temple of Temporance, the Prophecy of Ragnarok, or the Tower of Complacency?

Yet more edits to CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml:

Code:

<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_TEMPLE_OF_TEMPORENCE</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_TOWER_OF_COMPLACENCY</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_PROPHECY_OF_RAGNAROK</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_THE_NECRONOMICON</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_TABLETS_OF_BAMBUR</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>				
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_STIGMATA_ON_THE_UNBORN</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_SONG_OF_AUTUMN</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_CODE_OF_JUNIL</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>	
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_DIES_DIEI</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_NOX_NOCTIS</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>	
<Building>
<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_DEMONS_ALTAR</BuildingClassType>
<BuildingType>NONE</BuildingType>
</Building>

I thought about restricting them from building the Altar of the Luonnotar, but the Grigori can build it, so that seemed both inconsistent and overly restrictive on playstyle.

Hope this isn't too much. Take what's useful, leave the rest.

Thanks!

EDIT: Similar things for Grigori. They can't build temples, so the units requiring temples should probably be blocked. Also, if the Dural are explicitly blocked from building the priest and high priest units, shouldn't the Grigori be as well?

EDIT2: Temple of the Veil is required for a Demons' Altar, so both Grigori and Dural should probably be blocked from that too... Added above...

Click to expand...

I think you should start a new thread for these concerns (which are design implications, and not technical faults) It's something that needs a bit of feedback and discussion on how to proceed, and this thread isn't the place for that. Will incorporate these fixes.

1. I'm not sure if this is intended or a bug: sailing/astronomy doesn't allow trade on hellish coast/ocean. And ships that can't enter ocean can enter the hellish ocean.

2. My current game didn't end after my team acquired enough landmass and population for a domination victory (domination was enabled), I continued playing the game and destroyed the last enemy (that fool moved all his 20+ units out of his last city to kill a single chariot, why?!) and I didn't get a conquest victory either.

The first savegame is right after I should have got the domination victory and the second after destroying the last enemy.

Playing as the Mazatl, I tried to cast Spring and got a python exception saying that startWar takes exactly 4 arguments, but only 3 were given. It seems you missed something here... you need a war plan type added.

The AI really doesn't handle Dark Forests very well. In the two games I've played with them (I usually get those Satyr dudes) The AIs that were near them suffered some crippling expansion problems.

It looks like the settler/escort stack will try to move into a square adjacent to a dark forest. The forest will then scatter them, and if they don't end up in the same square they will retreat the settler to their territory to regroup with an escort and try again. If they have multiple squares of dark forest to path through to get to their ideal town spot the chances of them getting through gets pretty minute.

The AI doesn't seem to realize what's happening to it and will keep trying without settling in other locations. Most of the civs I've encountered near the forests were restricted to one city (and a bumbling settler) for most of the game.

It would be nice to have the dark forests and satyr dudes as separate options.