Dr kossin #29

I would pursue the gambit and try Qin. HC and Hammy can be taken later if you are successful, but you need to take Qin down or risk falling into obscurity. I've followed you enough to know you can and don't need to waste any time spelling out the details.

+2 cents.
Roger roger.

its certainly not helping that Justin seems to be just across a strait giving them a lot of intracontinental traderutes
True enough. At least it's HC who got the GLH :)

Qin will indeed be a monster soon enough if left unchecked. If you manage to take him out I think you may get away with a victory if you play your cards right. Not attacking Qin would mean he will be a serious threat for the win here, and later he will have a massive army with the possibility to get an ever bigger one as is if it was nothing. Now is the window of opportunity for an attack.

Following this with great interest. :)
That's the plan... let's see if it's working out now...

Since you allready know who the other AI are, I guess this is not spoiling anything for you.
Looks good, I guess you got to Pottery before crashing the Economy? What a difference that makes!

kossin, could you also please post a few screenshots of your F1 screen? I'd find it useful for learning to see what you're actually building in all your cities during the different intervals.
Sure, although at this point it's somewhat irrelevant, I will do so in future games (unless you really want me to still). Please note my F1 screen is vastly altered from the original via BUG, I like to see all the relevant information on one screen :)
 
Altered how? That info may be very much useful to hear, as I am always interested in getting more info more easy. :)
 
Sure, although at this point it's somewhat irrelevant, I will do so in future games (unless you really want me to still). Please note my F1 screen is vastly altered from the original via BUG, I like to see all the relevant information on one screen :)

It's fine for now, but for future updates it would be appreciated :)

I don't even know how the screen looks like without BUG. I did not start to really play this game actively until after BTS 3.19 and with PIG:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=328283

Actually, it would be awesome if you could do a DR with PIG sometime as I really feel it's a bit harder than what is portrayed in Immortal/Deity games posted on this forum (but I'm probably just deluding myself).
 
What PIG does however is being a clear mod since it alters the game as it was designed on more than just interface level. This is unacceptable for at least me. :)
 
Here's my F1 screen view:
Not resized
Spoiler :


From left to right:
  • City Size
  • Food surplus
  • Turns to growth
  • Health cap
  • Happy cap
  • Garrison
  • Base hammers
  • Actual Hammers
  • Base Commerce
  • Science
  • Gold
  • EP
  • Maintenance
  • Trade Routes
  • Total Culture
  • Culture per turn
  • Turns to border pop
  • Total GPP
  • GPP rate
  • Turns until next GP
  • Military Instructors
  • City defense
  • Revolt yes/no
  • Power yes/no
  • City governor on/off+ specialization
  • Producing
  • Turns to producing
  • Gold to hurry production
  • Pop points to hurry production
  • Overflow hammers from whip
  • Whip anger
  • Specialists hired


~~~

Some news:

Good:
-I've just finished the game
-This is one of my best liked games so far :lol:

Bad:
I fired up a new game to do a test in WB (unrelated to this game) and forgot to backup my autosaves =\

Very bad:
I did not save the game. :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:
I don't have as many screenshots as I need and no way to get them now, although that's still over 60. Anyway, I'll do drawings for the one I really wanted to show.

~~~

I guess I'll post a 3-parter ending during the course of the day, as long as I don't play too many other games :)
 
Looks good, I guess you got to Pottery before crashing the Economy? What a difference that makes!

Actually.. just looked over it.. seems I got Pottery the turn after you did!

I deliberately settled at the latest moment though, and settled later than you did. (Which I guess also explains why I only have 6 cities, although I couldn't have gotten the rice+cow site since that was the 2nd citi Ham built, or at least it was built before T20, I think)

Teched slightly different than you Hu-AH-BW (I got BW a turn earlier.. probably used the lake for extra commerce). Then Wheel (to hook up cities and happy quicker)-Ag-Myst-Pot (I didn't really have workers to spare prior to this, and cottages don't really produce settlers as well as cows do :)). Got Pottery 925BC, Writing 675BC (3 turns earlier than you) and Aest 325BC (You were in at 200BC).

Also I settled the gold+silver+fish earlier than you(as soon as a worker was ready to help out) and hooked it up "pretty quick", thus I needed myst earlier.

I guess you have 1 more city so it's costing you some in extra maintenance. And I was fortunate enough to meet the other AI earlier, so got some nice trades in (and some dodgy diplo).

But I guess it's also random in that you missed early trading opportunities, and with those you would look a lot more advanced at this point.

And congrats on what looks like another win? Looking forward to the gory detalis :)

Trying to finish mine, but diplo is a bit... well.. complicated.
 
What PIG does however is being a clear mod since it alters the game as it was designed on more than just interface level. This is unacceptable for at least me. :)

Being a clear mod?

Yeah, but it only alters subtle things to improve and balance gameplay!
 
Round 4a

This is the last trade I did with the Chinese. As a result, Qin did fall behind a bit but his sheer size meant he could still tech pretty fast by himself.
Spoiler :


Isabella showed up before I sent my own boats over her neighborhood. Of course she was mad for Worst Enemy trading and religions, but I soon revolted to Theocracy+Nationalism for level 3 units which kept her a bit less annoyed.
I really need to send out boats earlier, trade opportunities are always better with more AIs.
Spoiler :





The next 10 turns are spent heavily whipping and drafting Riflemen. By the time I declared war, my SoD was about 50 units strong, with about 30 cannons in it. Sadly, Qin got magic rifles the turn I got to Guangzhou but with enough Cannons, the city was mine easily.
Spoiler :


His SoD would recapture the city the following turn and after that I didn't see more SoD's from him, just consistently 20+units per city, and ~10 in marginal cities. 2-promo cannons had good success rate and most of the time I didn't even lose a single unit while taking a city. This lead to CRIII Cannons pretty fast which made it even more successful. A few of them even had extra promotions after that.

I also got a lot of Great Generals. The first was used as a supermedic.
The second made a CRIII rifle from a Maceman which had great odds against full health rifles.
The third made a second supermedic for the secondary stack.
All other GGs made CR rifles from Macemen.

More cities fell shortly.
Spoiler :

With the secondary stack.



I finally met the last 2 AIs from the boat I sent out.
Spoiler :



Still not much love for me but what do I care :D


I kept fighting on, my SoD was still over 40 units strong and my secondary stack was around 20 units now iIrc.
Spoiler :


I actually kept this one since its buildings were almost all intact.

But this one I burned to the ground... who would place a city there, seriously??!?



As usual, AIs delay Biology, Medicine and Refrigeration so I made good use of them for trading.
Spoiler :





My idea for the war against the Chinese was to take down his core cities ASAP which would slow him down considerably.
Spoiler :


After Shangai, there were a lot of rubbish cities left and a few growing cities that had great potential, but odds were he'd be building infrastructure instead of just Rifles.
Spoiler :







He would get Cannons at one point but he didn't use them much for attacking me, stupidly being in defensive mode. I drafted a bunch more units and built more cannons but at one point I was just steamrolling him so I switched back to infrastructure/wealth.

As I mentioned earlier, Medicine is another good trade chip.
Spoiler :




I was behind on techs but not hopelessly far and with the amount of cities I had, catching up would be doable at this point for say, Space.

All that was left was to eliminate the Chinese.
Spoiler :







I started losing more units in the end as he got Machine Guns and merged the two stacks together.

It was a long war but the results were excellent.

Mission accomplished!

The game should be in the bag now, right? I can head to space calmly and avoid more bloodshed, right?? Of course not, this is Deity and certain AIs have tendencies...


To be continued...
 
My start:
Spoiler :

I think if you had went Ag - AH, you'd be much better off. Thats what I almost always do as Ag *will* be necessary in 2nd city settling. By not grabbing agriculture first you missed out settling within trade route range here which is a big deal at this point, taking almost 6 turns off the next tech:



And obviously I went Wheel - Pottery after AH since we were settling the commerce city. Bronze will still be in in time to chop out some settlers to reach for some extra spots. You don't see it here, but a blocking barb city appeared 2w of the west banana for me. 3rd city 1pops his own worker since I'm busy cottaging and need to grab the corn and fish gold before china.



And here I'm going for aesthetics and I'll chop out the Schwedagon for pacificism, since it looks like ham, I and Qin are in Judaism. Otherwise I'd go IW then Compass as my trading chip so I can get the extra routes with the Cothon and chop that jungle - I'm about to settle the cow/rice to the north and will build 2 more settlers for the fish and double banana next.




And some heckling - I really can't believe you went BW first there after AH when settling that sweet cottage city second :) Also working the coastal 1F3C tiles should have gotten you out of your hole faster.

Oh and I love the GG CR3 maceman to rifle. I'm a big fan of using my GGs on the attack.
 
Round 4b

Where I left off in the previous segment, Carthage is up to 23 cities but is a bit backwards with the trading happy civs around (Mansa mostly).

Refrigeration finally made its appearance on the international window, allowing a fire sale.
Spoiler :




Next up however was Fission for trading.
Spoiler :




All was not well however. Hammurabi was flying ahead, Isabella hated my guts, Justinian was pretty advanced too, and Huayna Capac was going for culture. What's more, Mansa Musa also was going for culture!

Hayna was closer however and easier to deal with with the veterans from the Chinese war now upgraded to Infantry and Artillery. I also added several Machine Guns to deal with the air units he had. It took me several turns to get to his first culture city and then 2 turns to kill all the garrison in it (about 50 units).
Spoiler :




Justinian joined in the fight and now that HC's SoD was gone, he captured a city (I was hoping to get at least 1 more city but I decided to play safe and Capitulate HC when it was possible.)
Spoiler :


Here's a look at the Victory Conditions now.
Spoiler :

Mansa isn't too far from culture (culture slider isn't up) and Hammurabi is racing to space fast, as is Justinian.


So, I'm short on time and most of my cities aren't up to par on infrastructure since I've been busy with wars for a long time. There's always the easy way out...
Spoiler :

Oh yea... you got it coming Mansa. This time I'm not going to edge your culture attempt by 10 turns!


I fired up a late Golden Age to prepare a grand finale to the game.
Spoiler :

More production, more gold, more rushbuying.


By 1826AD Mansa is likely within 50 turns of a culture victory.
Spoiler :


Can't let that happen...
Spoiler :

Triple nuke, capture, raze, delete unit.

Triple nuke, capture, raze, delete unit.

Triple nuke, capture, raze, delete unit.

Triple nuke, capture, raze, delete unit.


It helped a lot that Mansa broke free from his voluntary vassaling. Had he not, I would probably still have sticked it to him and nuked Justinian as well in the process.


Here's a revised Victory Screen look:
Spoiler :


2 turns later, Mansa is willing to talk, and with better news than I expected!
Spoiler :


All is not well however. See those red fists by Isabella and Justinian? Both hate me now from my vassals and a few refused demands :)

Hammurabi only needs one more tech to launch his spaceship, and Justinian isn't too far behind either.

To be continued...
 
Awesome game so far, keep it coming =D

I love stopping the AI from reaching culture or space just in the nick of time, very satisfying.
 
Round 4c

8 turns after the previous round ended, Hammurabi launched a complete SS heading for a 10-turns victory.
Spoiler :


6 turns after that, in 1854AD Justinian also launched a spaceship.. Humm so I have to somehow beat the living hell out of the two biggest AIs left?

Not exactly.

You see... I had a plan. Call it the Master Plan, Plan A, whatever you want. Sadly, I lost my autosaves as I said a bit earlier so you'll have to do with this drawing:
WARNING: Not Resized screenshot from 1000AD with bad drawing by me!
Spoiler :


Legend:
Red dots: additional cities built by Hammurabi later on.
#: Stack including 2 submarines, 6 tactical nukes, 1 transport with 4 tanks
p#: Stack including 2 submarines, 6 tactical nukes, 1 transport with 4 paratroopers
N: as many nukes as I could spare on the tile, with several forts built all over [the northern one is meant for HC's city]
p: As many paratroopers as I could spare.

See it now?

There were only a few complications however.
1. SDI - solution: tactical nukes have 67.5% hit chance even with SDI so from 6 tacs, at least 4 should hit, on average.

2. Executives - solution: this is only a problem for paratroopers. Having a unit investigate every landlocked city told me when it was time to strike. The moment none of them had an executive meant war.

3. Justinian and Isabella wanting my skin - solution: more nukes.

4. Justinian's space ship - solution: win before he does :)


It turns out "The Master Plan" was executed in 1846AD.
Here are some screenshots to better illustrate it.

Spoiler :

A typical submarine stack.


Followed by tanks in a transport. Every city was kept.


New city, same result.


4/6 nukes make it through this time. 3 nukes usually obliterates everything in a city, 4 is even safer


I forgot Paratroopers could be intercepted by Fighters/Jets. Luckily the second made it through and I nuked every city before sending the others in.

Home sweet home.


You get the picture by now?


It's still 1846AD



I get screwed by the RNG a bit over here. However I have some spare nukes in the neighboring city.


Why so... deserted?


As befit a true civilization's ending, Babylon is saved for last.



I'm not too familiar with city revolt # of turns but the longest here was 6 turns. I'm guessing it's because he was completely wiped off in 1 turn!


Now if your eyes aren't too hurting from all that gore, you might have noticed both Isabella and Justinian were at war with me when I actually declared war on Hammurabi :lol:

Nothing a few nukes can't solve however. Isabella gets a taste from Mansa's land and pays me for her mistake. Maybe she should have considered building SDI?
Spoiler :


Justinian however had SDI and his attack was aimed at me, not Mansa. He took a few cities, I nuked his stacks and took back the city when I could.

It was just a waiting game until the ex-Hammy cities came out of revolt for me to trigger domination, aided by vassals Mansa, who rebuilt cities where I burned them, and HC who was useless otherwise.
Spoiler :


So there you have it, nukes are overpowered and a great tool in the hands of humans.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Post-game

What to say... I never quite caught up technologically with the AI but it didn't matter after assimilating Qin and getting nukes.
Grashopa's opening seems a lot better and I questioned myself strongly when going Hunting first, but not enough it seems.

I still need to get much better at the first 100 turns. My only regret for this game is not backing up my autosaves :mad:

Histogram of 1846AD:
Spoiler :


Killed units
Spoiler :


Fun fun fun... see you tomorrow in the 30th edition!
 
That war against China is the best in your series to date.

I usually take the opposite approach and take down the soft targets. Very impressive whooping the leader like that, especially consiering you were coming last.
 
awesome job! :goodjob:

A question: Do ai build nukes and use them in war? Or did you preempt them so they never had the chance?
 
Awesome!!! :goodjob:

Very nice how Qin botched up in the war so you were able to take him out completely. It would probably have been a different game entirely, maybe it would even cost you the game had you not been able to take him out completely. Good job taking him out as you spotted the chance, and good job keeping your head together once two AI's launched spaceships. Awesome game, awesome playing, stupid losing the saves! :lol:
 
Top Bottom