Meh, maybe. More paranoia on their part.
South African white separatists leader Eugene Terreblanche Murdered
- Thread starter Fëanor
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Meh, maybe. More paranoia on their part.
amadeus
rad thibodeaux-xs
I wouldn't think so, given their surroundings; Angola and Mozambique were ruled by Soviet-backed regimes and Zimbabwe's Mugabe was always viewed suspiciously by both conservatives and liberals alike in South Africa.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
The Soviet Union? I think the Cold War is over now.
In other words, what do you think white supremacists like Terreblanche are going to try to use for fearmongering purposes? That their enemeis may become fascists like them?
In other words, what do you think white supremacists like Terreblanche are going to try to use for fearmongering purposes? That their enemeis may become fascists like them?
amadeus
rad thibodeaux-xs
Well, it's the same fear as before, and I can see how they justify it; before, it was that the communists were going to take over. Now, the fear is that they're in power, they're going to act on it. Is it actually the case? Well, I'd say with the current crop of ANC leaders it isn't wholly unrealistic to imagine that South Africa is to become at some point in the future a failed state, but maybe not a communist state.
Yared
That Guy
I was going to write something, but then I read this and realised I could spare myself the effort and just write this.
How so? What do you want me to do about it? I'm just saying that anyone who is "shocked" by what is happening is obviously not paying attention.
And that is why I am not a conservative. America's conservatives are not much different from Apartheid whites. And there are consequences to that. Which is one of the reasons I oppose the conservatives so strongly.
See above.
It's their official policy to discriminate against white people. This is not debatable, it is a fact and it is not deniable.
Cutlass said:
Shocked about a dude being beaten to death over a pay dispute? And that's what it is, hell nobody is saying its anything but that and even the usually hysterical Boer news-media ain't saying much else than that. A nasty way to die but it doesn't seem like it was related to race or anything else. Other than the usual hyper-violence of South Africa this isn't all that surprising. Accepting that the attack had to be racially motivated is kind of begging the question isn't it?
Cutlass said:
And the Democrats were never the Party of the South, never endorsed explicitly racist policies, never retroactively justified them on the basis of Racial Science and never elected administrations to the White House that were racist? It isn't just the fault of Conservatives those guys were bloody Progressives. Two sides of the coin and all that.
Azale said:
I think that owes something to the nature of the actual ANC whose organizations are definitely mass organizations and have a wider base of popular support. The Communists while influential in the party quite out of proportion to their numbers don't have that kind of base and haven't been able to translate their influence into tangible policy directions. Mandela's shadow is also way to big to fill and its almost a requirement on the part of ANC leaders to show deference to his policies and to his vision of South Africa -- which isn't and wasn't explicitly Communist.
Azale said:
I don't see why the former rules them out of contention to be Communists. And the latter is probably more of a product of historical reliance by the ANC on outside support, the realities of the South African economy and the collapse of the Soviet Bloc. It isn't the only Communist country that got left hanging when the system collapsed, Vietnam is another good example of a state that had to wake up to the world rather quickly.
Azale said:
Ya. My dislike of the man has little do with his politics -- which have oscillated rather radically during his term -- and more to do with the corrupt rapist, shoot Mmbeki in the back part.
Formaldehyde said:
Tell that to current and formers Communists inside the ANC.. and there's lots of them including the current President.
What the frak are you talking about?
I am not an extremist conservative. I'm a progressive liberal. I have nothing to do with those conservatives. Don't you know anything at all about American politics?Clearly more than you do about American if you think the Democratic party of 100 years ago and anything related to liberals or progressives are the same thing.
That's the strawman told by people who try to obscure reality, not understand it.Cutlass said:
Let's put this into perspectives. You don't know anything about South African politics and haven't evidenced any understanding of where to place the National Party in the political continuum of South Africa pre 1948. All you've managed to do thus far is to make silly generalized comparisons between the National Party and American 'Conservatives' (whatever the hell that means and implies) with no and I repeat no attempt to provide examples and and then vainly to try and defend it, when questioned, with smilies like this condescending bit of trash:
. What do you expect to a vague answer making full use of inane buzz-words a highly rendered piece of prose complete with refutations and scholarly references? You also blamed all white South Africans for a policy that many opposed in a political system that was gerrymandered to high hell to ensure National Party dominance and which over time conspired more and more to deny its white opposition a voice as much as it tried to deny its black opposition anything. You then accepted that while America was equally vile, and practiced policies which in many ways presaged Apartheid, but that it was all good because your blacks didn't hate you all for it -- when, frankly, they should have.
And after-all the white South Africans totally should reap what they all apparently sowed. So to all the fine white folks who voted for the United Party year-in-year-out and suffered official discrimination at the hands of the National Party in just about every sphere of life: You deserved everything you have coming to you. To J.M. Coetzee, the most prominent white academic to oppose the National Party, how about you just forgot about the Life & Times of Micheal K and the whole edifice of state you opposed alone with your colleagues. In this, a topsy turvy world of collective punishment: You deserve it.
To all the white people in America. You don't deserve it. Because your blacks don't hate you and not all of you supported Segregation. Hell, some of you took brave measures to oppose it and took the consequences with courage and fortitude. It doesn't matter that many white South Africans did acts that were analogous under circumstances that could be direr still. They all deserve it. Somehow that makes all makes sense.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Well said Masada 
Before I get accused of being some sort of pro-Boer a little bit of sports history might be illustrative of some of the issues I may have had in South Africa under Apartheid. A certain uncle of mine was a representative rugby player for New Zealand in a game that was to be played during the early 1960s. He had been advised to keep news of his ancestry quiet -- being Maori and all -- and had taken some care to ensure he wasn't going to be picked up as obviously coloured during entry into the country. He didn't even get past customs: it seems that the internal security bureau had managed to somehow figure out the racial composition of each and every player in quite some detail. This included a thorough family tree which some of the players kept because it surpassed their own knoweldge of their family. In consequence of being non-white he was rejected an entry visa into the country. Similarly, another fellow was refused entry for much the same reason and he wasn't even aware he had Maori blood. Which goes to show you that the Internal Security Agencies earned their keep: by removing even unknowing blacks from the country. The rest of the tour was carefully staged managed as well with contact with blacks was kept to an absolute minimum and discussion kept almost exclusively to sport...
But I'm not prepared to equate the people with the state.
But I'm not prepared to equate the people with the state.
amadeus
rad thibodeaux-xs
Good story, Masada! The South Africans experienced a bit of a diplomatic row when a Japanese athlete visiting the country tried to use one of the whites-only pools; he was rejected by the local government and Japan got offended. Shortly thereafter, South Africa gave Japanese, Chinese (mostly from Taiwan), and Koreans all "white" citizenship due to their relations with those countries.
RedRalph
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2007
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- 20,708
Heh, saying that doesn't work and you know it.
Let's put this into perspectives. You don't know anything about South African politics and haven't evidenced any understanding of where to place the National Party in the political continuum of South Africa pre 1948. All you've managed to do thus far is to make silly generalized comparisons between the National Party and American 'Conservatives' (whatever the hell that means and implies) with no and I repeat no attempt to provide examples and and then vainly to try and defend it, when questioned, with smilies like this condescending bit of trash:
You also blamed all white South Africans for a policy that many opposed in a political system that was gerrymandered to high hell to ensure National Party dominance and which over time conspired more and more to deny its white opposition a voice as much as it tried to deny its black opposition anything. You then accepted that while America was equally vile, and practiced policies which in many ways presaged Apartheid, but that it was all good because your blacks didn't hate you all for it -- when, frankly, they should have.
And after-all the white South Africans totally should reap what they all apparently sowed. So to all the fine white folks who voted for the United Party year-in-year-out and suffered official discrimination at the hands of the National Party in just about every sphere of life: You deserved everything you have coming to you. To J.M. Coetzee, the most prominent white academic to oppose the National Party, how about you just forgot about the Life & Times of Micheal K and the whole edifice of state you opposed alone with your colleagues. In this, a topsy turvy world of collective punishment: You deserve it.
To all the white people in America. You don't deserve it. Because your blacks don't hate you and not all of you supported Segregation. Hell, some of you took brave measures to oppose it and took the consequences with courage and fortitude. It doesn't matter that many white South Africans did acts that were analogous under circumstances that could be direr still. They all deserve it. Somehow that makes all makes sense.
Edit:
I never said it was right, if you had noted. I'm saying that it is predictable. All over the world groups of innocent people are being hurt for the supposed crimes of their ancestors or others of their group. Why should SA be any different?
Cutlass said:
I did but your shallow understanding of the subject matter hasn't inspired confidence.
Cutlass said:
America's segregation is still in living memory and yet you don't expect the children and now grandchildren of those so monstrously wrong to lash out against you all in an orgy of retributive violence devoid of all proportionality and justice. Reap what you sow, you say. And why haven't you?
Cutlass said:
Yes, and all the tales of forgiveness and reconciliation are swept beneath the carpet. Your own nations tale of redemption is merely one of those many so readily forgotten.
Cutlass said:
Why is America?
