The UU-A-Day Countdown

Well I think that on the Attacking turn, the garrison+the city are treated separately (so the CKN can attack 2x, and the city once). On the defending turn, they act as 1 unit.

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This seems most likely to me.

But if you have Rifleman garrisoned in cities, they won't shoot as much but they'll do more damage when they do shoot. So CKN's will still be useful, but they won't last forever.

I think they act as single unit on both attack and defense. The reason why I think so is what you can't attack with garrisoned unit if there are other unit in the city.

I think it would be very weird for units to add abilities to cities, because the balance implications of this would be widely variable.

Some units and UUs have abilities that would synergize strongly with a city (like an extra attack). Some are totally useless (like extra strength in enemy territory, or extra movement points).

Churchill's Hat said:

But if you have Rifleman garrisoned in cities, they won't shoot as much but they'll do more damage when they do shoot. So CKN's will still be useful, but they won't last forever.

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Riflemen have no ranged attack, archer, xbow and all forms of seige wepons (such as arty and cata's) are the only units with ranged attack.

Explanation of the pic:

but i was thinking alittle, if you look on the example turn 1 and turn 2, red player is first in line to do hes move (and yes i know the longsword (ls) should have moved a turn before but i am trying to make a fair example of a very even fight where 4 ckn and 4 xbow (xb) has its chanse to fire away. I read somewhere that units have 10hp and i've seen videos of players useing archers and not to many swordsmen fell to the ground, so XB deals 2dmg50% of the time and 3dmg 50% of the time represnting 12 ranged str, CKN deals 2dmg every shot representing 10ranged str and remember the LS has 2 movement.

thanks to the CKN another green LS is dead and 1 LS has less hp then the china one which means even if china had 1 less LS to start with they won this turn's battle. If you add hills, forests and strategic placements and even a general (with art of war) the green player would be completely crushed.

And before you bash away that my example "isent how ciV" is gona work, well try to make a better example your self without playing the game ;p

That seems similar to how it'll work. At worse, it's a simplification. I would also say that, if both sides had 2 ranged units instead of 4, the Chu-ko-nu is even more useful because it could weaken all four units, while the X-Bows can only weaken 2 (leaving four less effective units on one side, but 2 full strength units on the other).

Louis XXIV said:

That seems similar to how it'll work. At worse, it's a simplification. I would also say that, if both sides had 2 ranged units instead of 4, the Chu-ko-nu is even more useful because it could weaken all four units, while the X-Bows can only weaken 2 (leaving four less effective units on one side, but 2 full strength units on the other).

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Exactly, its not gona totaly kill everything it sees but its gona make the enemy weak and gona slow down attacks and you need less units when normal to win also (if you play your cards right.

If garrisoned cities inherit the abilities of the garrisoned unit, it'll make a certain boring UU that much less boring.

Speaking of defenders, how about a particularly terrible one? The Ottoman Sipahi replaces the Lancer, and serves as the bridge between the medieval Knight and 19th century Cavalry. The most fearsome branch of the Ottoman army, the Sipahi were used to smash an enemy's flank while infantry held the line. Thus, the Civ5 version has +1 sight and movement over Lancers, giving it greater flexibility. The Sipahi were also used in cavalry-cavalry skirmishes, and therefore have a bonus against mounted units in-game. As if this wasn't enough, Firaxis has tacked on the ability to pillage at no additional movement cost. Of course, this all comes with a downside - the Sipahi gets a penalty while defending.

The Sipahi is another two-part UU, as it comes as the same time as the other Ottoman UU. This is a unit that will truly benefit from a capable general; the +1 movement and bonus against mounted will make for a phenomenal flanking unit, winning side skirmishes and punching through behind lines. While you're there, you can also pillage freely, putting your enemy in the unenviable position of falling back or losing his infrastructure. The +1 sight range also makes the Sipahi a fantastic scout, and possibly the best of its era. Its penalty, however, means that any battlefield errors will be catastrophic - an ambush, or poorly-placed Sipahi detachment, will result in greater losses than usual. This is not a unit for the faint of heart or poor commander: when used correctly, the Sipahi is devastating, but one bad turn can destroy your force.

ShaqFu said:

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That's a pretty good analysis, except you missed one critical factor: Lancers get a penalty on defense as well, and I don't see anything to suggest that the Sipahi's penalty is any greater than the Lancer's. Plus, the Sipahi isn't listed as having the Lancer's "doesn't receive defense bonuses" trait, so it's actually better on defense assuming that's not an oversight.

Dosent the normal lancer have penelty when defending? if so this unit sounds very OP imagen rushing into the enemys land from a flank with 4 of those and just killing alone units and raid improvements at the same time and also scouting at the same time.

whipflash said:

Dosent the normal lancer have penelty when defending?

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Yes it does (see, for example, the above post).

Lyoncet said:

That's a pretty good analysis, except you missed one critical factor: Lancers get a penalty on defense as well, and I don't see anything to suggest that the Sipahi's penalty is any greater than the Lancer's. Plus, the Sipahi isn't listed as having the Lancer's "doesn't receive defense bonuses" trait, so it's actually better on defense assuming that's not an oversight.

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Actually, 'doesn't receive defense bonuses' is both positive and negative.

Rough Terrain gives a positive defense modifier (hills, forest, jungle)
Open Terrain gives a negative defense modifier (everything else)

So if the Siphai gets terrain defense effects, then they will be better in rough terrain +25%, but worse in open terrain -33% (on top of whatever defense penalty they already have)

wouldnt a bonus be referring to something positive and a penalty refer to something negative? i read it as they wont get any positive defensive modifiers but they will still get negative

I agree.

I like all the Sipahi's flexibility in a 1 UPT game- mobile, scout, pillager, anit-horse. Probably the best outcome of 1 UPT, flexible units are desirable again, rather than unit effectiveness being reduced to its single best property as in an SOD. It seems that Ottomans will have a very dominant army in the midgame.

I really like the Cho-Ku-Nu, I thought before I saw the information on this UU that the longbowmen would be classical unit of choice, although the "two attacks" of the fast reloading Cho-Ku-Nu is a really nice unit. However the fact that they have gone with "+1 attack for the fastest reloading "crossbow" type unit", leaves me hopeful for an equally good English UU, the longbow was the "longest range "crossbow" type unit" (its not actually like a cross bow but its what it will replace in the game) and this suggests to me that Civ5 developers may have gone with +1 range for longbows, if this is the case then this equals the cho-ku-nu in awesomeness, so what you can fire twice, I am three tiles away from you and you can't get me.

12agnar0k said:

I really like the Cho-Ku-Nu, I thought before I saw the information on this UU that the longbowmen would be classical unit of choice, although the "two attacks" of the fast reloading Cho-Ku-Nu is a really nice unit. However the fact that they have gone with "+1 attack for the fastest reloading "crossbow" type unit", leaves me hopeful for an equally good English UU, the longbow was the "longest range "crossbow" type unit" (its not actually like a cross bow but its what it will replace in the game) and this suggests to me that Civ5 developers may have gone with +1 range for longbows, if this is the case then this equals the cho-ku-nu in awesomeness, so what you can fire twice, I am three tiles away from you and you can't get me.

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I think +1 range could be an excellent Longbow trait, and the unit IMO really deserves to be phenomenal as UUs go. I mean, I saw the movie version of Henry V; I know what I'm talking about!

No seriously though, the English Longbow is awesome – really have high hopes for the unit. I can even see overpowering it slightly and giving it a moderately higher hammer cost over the Crossbow since along with being developed way later than crossbows, the training was notoriously difficult. Not sure if they'd do that, since I don't know if there are any UUs that actually cost more than the unit they replace, but it would be cool.

And well it's 12:30 or later right now in a good portion of the world, so I guess I don't feel too bad for not talking about today's unit.

Yeah someone said on these forumns I believe,
Theirs an old saying "if you want to train a longbowman, start with his grandfather"
I.e it's not something easy to pick up, Also the english longbow is not an easy weapon to fire, it takes about 4 times more pulling power than todays hunting bows, so you would need strong (and skilled) archers to fire them. They had the great range&power however and this should be represented in the unit.

So I think I would agree with you, +1 range +2 strength over cross bows (I think I already say this part as confirmed though I might be day dreaming, anyway it matches the CKN -2 strength in modification range, and many other units give like +2 strength too) Also an additional hammer cost because of the awesomeness of the longbow .

12agnar0k said:

Yeah someone said on these forumns I believe,
Theirs an old saying "if you want to train a longbowman, start with his grandfather"
I.e it's not something easy to pick up, Also the english longbow is not an easy weapon to fire, it takes about 4 times more pulling power than todays hunting bows, so you would need strong (and skilled) archers to fire them. They had the great range&power however and this should be represented in the unit.

So I think I would agree with you, +1 range +2 strength over cross bows (I think I already say this part as confirmed though I might be day dreaming, anyway it matches the CKN -2 strength in modification range, and many other units give like +2 strength too) Also an additional hammer cost because of the awesomeness of the longbow .

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I think an extra range is over-powered. It'd be very difficult for melees to get to them.

Stefanskantine said:

It seems that Ottomans will have a very dominant army in the midgame.

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Yup ! Thats why they've a medicore UA (atleast it seems so).