What do you think about germany?

Aroddo

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Viewing something from an outer perspective often reveals insights into a problem that are not readily apparent from the inside. This is true for foreigners looking at the madness of american politics and it is true for foreigners looking at other countries. Like germany.

I am german. I think my country has flaws, but it's largely a good place to live in.
From my perspective (I'll obmit that quantifier from now on) corruption is low and even most politicians act ... well, maybe not honest but at least they don't cause too much damage to society. We recently kicked out our president because he accepted 'favors' from a friend (who is also a businessman) amounting to about €50.000.

Our whole education system is free - i.e. tax-payed - and produces respectable results. Kids are assigned a school depending on where they live, although parents can freely apply for a different school depending on circumstances. The request is usually granted.
Higher education (e.g. university) is free too (there's a small administration fee each semester - about $300), and you are able to apply to any university you want. Depending on your school grades and study places available at that university you are either admitted immediately or you have to wait a couple of semesters (which can be spent studying on a different university if so desired).

We have free (i.e. tax payed) health care. Every citizen is either insured by the state or by a private insurer. It is a legal requirement to be insured if you want to get a job. If you can't afford to pay for insurance, the state will pay the fees. No exceptions.
Medicine (drugs) are largely paid for by the insurer if prescribed by a doctor. In that case you only have to pay about 5% the total cost.
Waiting times for medical procedures range from immediately to several weeks, depending on what you need. You can see a doctor for a basic checkup whenever you want - seeing a dermatologiest might require a weeks wait and brain surgery even longer. Urgent cases will get pushed to the top of the queue, though.

Most germans think we have a diverse ethnic population and when they think that they mean turks, which are by far the largest foreign population in germany. There are large groups of koreans there, too, as well as people from all over europe. Blacks are a rare sight, probably due to germany not having taken black slaves in the age of empires. There is racism - overt and subtle - but as a rule you can live a safe and respectable life - as long as you speak good german!

There is freedom of religion in germany even though about 95% are christian. And we do our very best to prevent muslims from building large mosques. Unsurprisingly we don't have very many synagogues in germany either even though they don't face the kind of opposition muslim holy houses do.

We do not have free speech as americans do. It is illegal to publicly deny that the holocaust ever happened for example. Online forums are required to be moderated and any lawyer can require the webmaster to delete certain messages (like posting "lies" about companies or politicians). You either comply or take a lawyer yourself to battle their attempt of censorship.
Apart from things like that and other little qualifiers, we DO have freedom of expression.

Police is (personal experience) polite and respectful, even helpful. They are all armed with handguns but you practically never see them drawing it. Unless they are actually threatened with deadly force, they never threaten you with deadly force, either.
I once was at a student party late at night when police came and informed us that a neighbour complained about the noise. The host turned down the volume and chatted a bit with them before they went their way. Our american guest seemed quite nervous the whole time and couldn't understand why the host was taking it so easy. Not sure what his experiences with cops were.

Internationally we have good and peaceful relations with most of the world. There are no signs of us going on a war of conquest again and for the first time in history, germany is surrounded by friends and allies. Even france doesn't want to kill us anymore.

Economic
ally we are the driving force in europe and the main financial contributor to the EU. Our industry is strong and highly developed, infrastructure is exceptional, we are food self sufficient and we export more than we import.

The environment is clean, drinking water is of the highest quality (apparently tap water regulations are even stricter than for regular drinking water), trash gets recycled (although I don't know the percentage nor do I know of any gigantic waste dumps). All industries have to accomodate hordes of regulations to prevent environmental pollution and are liable for any damages.
Nuclear plants I think are the sole exception. In case one explodes they are required to pay a pittance, no matter how many trillions of damage they cause. Needless to say that most germans oppose nuclear power.

Oh yeah, something cultural/psychological: Money isn't important.
Well, of course it IS important. We all need it and we want more. Lots of it, if possible. And our workers unions raise hell regularily if we don't get enough of a raise every year to offset inflation.
But in the end money as such isn't important to germans. Few brag about their wealth and when they do they are seen as dicks. It is actually impolite to talk about money (i.e. personal wealth) in many occasions.
Some of the most common sayings include: "Money doesn't make you happy, but happyness makes you rich." and "One doesn't talk about money. One has money."

Also, the use of credit cards is the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of germans buy only what they can afford using their bank savings. This includes larger investments like cars. I'm not entirely sure how americans do it, but i got the impression that they use credit cards for almost everything, including paying the meal at a restaurant.

Sex is considered natural. You don't discuss it at the dinner table but no one really cares about who is doing it with whom. If a nipple is flashed in public we enjoy the view and go on. Public breastfeeding is completely acceptabel and no one even lifts an eyebrow. There is no 5-second delay on live broadcasts to protect kids from seeing bodyparts they get to see during biology class anyway.
That wasn't always the case, though. In the early 60s, the topic of sex was taboo. With the invention of the anti-baby-pill (sold in germany after 1961) and the "free-love" culture (from the USA of all places) the germans grew more and more open and soon a flood of "sexual education films" flooded the cinemas (mostly by Oswalt Kolle), which germans (who were always keen on education) readily visited.
Prostitution is legal, although time and places where it's acceptable is regulated. Prostitution is now considered a legal occupation and is thus taxed like any other job. Some places like Berlin even have parking-meter-like things where prostitues have to clock in. :)
And in case you are now tempted rest assured that they are all receiving state health care, so doing business is relatively safe. You should wear a raincoat anyway. How to put it on is actually taught in school.
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So ... this is my rosy tinted totally subjective picture of germany.
Now you shoot me down.
In fact, I never considered our high school education system as unfair/racist until an american pointed out to me that our multi-tiered schools (Realschule, Hauptschule, Gesamtschule, Gymnasium) is practically equivalent to social segregation.
Sometimes it takes the outside view.

So, have at me!

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Update: Education and foreign students.
While I knew that many foreigners visit germany to study, I wasn't aware of how much it costs for non-citizens. Turns out that even guests to our country enjoy the full benefits of out education AND health care system.
Soooo .... if you are an american and want to study whatever you want for 85 Euros per semester and get full health care coverage for 77 Euros per month, then by all means: Welcome to Germany!


Link to video.
 
I've been living in Germany since last September(I'm american) and I'd generallly agree with your evaluations.

I find the attitudes towards Turks and other immigrants here absolutely disgusting though. It's not considered taboo at all to say "I can't stand any Turks" or "Turks are a lazy people" or something similar. There's a lot more overt Neo-Nazism than I ever experienced in America as well. Maybe it's just where I live(small village outside of Berlin) but it's seriously something that needs to change.

It hasn't been a bad place to live at all though and I've really enjoyed my time here for the most part. I greatly admire your Public Transportation system, something I'd never really experienced until I moved here. It's not as convenient as a car by a long shot, but it has to be several times cheaper.
 
As far as immigration goes, my view of Germany is that it doesn't screen it's immigrants very well and and is incapable of assimilating non-European immigrants. The result is a large, permanent under class of immigrants who resent their host's culture and tend towards crime. So it's not very healthy in that regard (compared to say Canada or USA).

As for culture... well German culture doesn't really seem very appealing or notable. When I think of a German I think of someone who is serious and business-minded. That's about it, there aren't any other distinguishing traits I can think of. So culturally I'd say Germany is pretty weak.
 
I've been living in Germany since last September(I'm american) and I'd generallly agree with your evaluations.

I find the attitudes towards Turks and other immigrants here absolutely disgusting though. It's not considered taboo at all to say "I can't stand any Turks" or "Turks are a lazy people" or something similar. There's a lot more overt Neo-Nazism than I ever experienced in America as well. Maybe it's just where I live(small village outside of Berlin) but it's seriously something that needs to change.

It hasn't been a bad place to live at all though and I've really enjoyed my time here for the most part. I greatly admire your Public Transportation system, something I'd never really experienced until I moved here. It's not as convenient as a car by a long shot, but it has to be several times cheaper.
I can confirm what you say. Antipathy against turks is - in private -
expressed rather openly. However, turks likewise express their antipathy against germans rather more openly and vociferously (which i can personally confirm since my half-asian looks kinda make me a neutral in their eyes). Moreover, turks tend to stick to their own, which is going as far as not even bothering to learn german in some cases. I see increasing ghettoisation going on, sadly. Also, there are few intellectual german-turks prominently visible in germany, which doesn't improve the we-against-them mindset.

Public transport is ok, I guess. Never thought about it much, although I have been told that we are being vastly outclassed by Switzerland and South Korea.
Basically you can reach about every place with public transport and a ticket for a ride across the town costs about $3. You can buy a 1-month-ticket allowing you unlimited travel inside a fairly large zone for about $60. And if you are a university student you get to travel for free, anyway.


As far as immigration goes, my view of Germany is that it doesn't screen it's immigrants very well and and is incapable of assimilating non-European immigrants. The result is a large, permanent under class of immigrants who resent their host's culture and tend towards crime. So it's not very healthy in that regard (compared to say Canada or USA).

As for culture... well German culture doesn't really seem very appealing or notable. When I think of a German I think of someone who is serious and business-minded. That's about it, there aren't any other distinguishing traits I can think of. So culturally I'd say Germany is pretty weak.
Immigration is always a serious topic for germany and how it is handled is ridiculous, indeed.
For example, our universities attract thousands of foreign students. And after they graduate, the majority wants to stay in germany to work and live, or - at the very least - to work. And for some reason unknown to me our immigration bureau refuses work permits or immigration to highly educated and thus highly desired immigrants.
On the other hand, many immigrants from poor or war-ridden countries, or persecuted people from restrictive governments apply for immigration. To be fair, the approval rate of both groups seems to be the same. Personally I'd think it would make more sense to cherrypick.
And the rate of assimilation seems to correlate with education level which also correlates with crime rates. I'd have to check statistics for that, but I think the crime rate correlates stronger to social indicators than ethic ones.

And culture ... well, I'm not sure what your understanding of culture is. Visual arts? Classical music? Fashion? Movies? Food?
It's true, though. The golden age of world-wide german culture was before WW2. Pop-culture is dominated by the USA in the western word. Apart from Rammstein I am at a loss to name anything 'hip' from germany sweeping the world.
 
Schwarwälder Kirschtorte is hip now? ;)

Rammstein at least is very widely known in the Anglosphere and doesn't represent a particular German stereotype (other than those they actively chose to represent, of course), which is why I think Aroddo chose them.

Now talking about German culture, it's true that there's nothing internationally remarkable, at least as long as we're talking about pop culture. I think this has a lot to do with how backwards looking the "official" view on culture in Germany is. Traditional theatre, opera, museums etc. all get plenty of funding, but are stuck in only reproducing the past for exactly this reason. When I see how for example how embraced pop music is in Great Britain (just a quick example, shows like "Later with Jools" would be completely impossible in German public television), I get actively envious. And the results show the difference.

I think the good parts of German music (using it as one example of culture, mainly because it's the one I care most about) are always inherent to language. Maybe it's just because I'm fond of smart use of language, but almost all German musicians I like I like because of their lyrics. This is something that's very hard to advertise abroad, of course.
 
i think of germany as a more serious version of austria.



As for culture... well German culture doesn't really seem very appealing or notable. When I think of a German I think of someone who is serious and business-minded. That's about it, there aren't any other distinguishing traits I can think of. So culturally I'd say Germany is pretty weak.


Link to video.
 
added a small section about sex & prostitution.
 
How do you feel Germany has changed since its re-unification.

I spent 3 weeks in Germany in 1987, since then I have only made fleeting visits?
 
(checks date of OP) .....Rammstein are 1.hip? And 2.sweeping the world?

Now schwarchwarzewalde kirsch torte on the other hand :goodjob:

Sue me, I'm old! :D

And Schwarzwälder Kirschtorte is always awesome.

Hmm.... i have to add a section about food. EAT ZE BRATWURST!
 
Fun fact: umlauts are generally weaker than their proper vowel counterparts.

Generally ? Maybe so but I assure you this generalisation does not apply to a scharz , shwar , schwa......bugger it , black forest cherry cake .

EDIT....@Aroddo......when I said check date of OP I meant the thread , not you mate ! I'm 38 and when I get to Germany I'll happily rock it at Rammestein with you .
 
How do you feel Germany has changed since its re-unification.

I spent 3 weeks in Germany in 1987, since then I have only made fleeting visits?

Oh, that time was awesome! And it came as a complete surprise!
Suddenly the east-germans (we call them Ossie/ pl. Ossies from "Ostdeutsche") swept the country (they didn't all trust the deal) and new pupils visited our schools with stories to tell ... And about all of them spoke better russian than our russian teachers, hehe.
Of course, Ossie teachers came over, too, and not all of them were as ... cosmopolitan as Wessie ones (thats us West-Germans. only Ossies refer to us like this, though).

In an initial fit of generousity every east german was given a 100 Deutschmark gift they could spend on western luxuries. Later it was declared that GDR money may be converted 1:1 to Deutschmark, which made most Ossies instantly rich (since they usually had lots of savings for a lack of products to spend it on). The Wessies were quick in relieving them of their savings, though, by selling them old stuff like record players and LPs in a time where the CD reigned supreme.

I think what changed most was how it took away the constant fear of soviet tanks crossing the border. Nuclear annihilation seemed a thing of the past and enduring peace with soviet russia was possible.
Sure, the reunification stretched germanys finances to the limit (we are still paying a rebuilding-the-east-tax today), but hell, it was worth it.
 
Well, just for a start the absence of free speech and the acceptance of debauchery are signs of moral degeneracy which can only signal ill times ahead.

But the Germanic people, along with Anglos, do have significant advantages relative to other racial and ethnic groups genetically which might be helpful in overcoming the troubles to come.

What is Germany doing to prepare for the inevitable global nuclear war?
 
Well, just for a start the absence of free speech and the acceptance of debauchery are signs of moral degeneracy which can only signal ill times ahead.

But the Germanic people, along with Anglos, do have significant advantages relative to other racial and ethnic groups genetically which might be helpful in overcoming the troubles to come.

What is Germany doing to prepare for the inevitable global nuclear war?

Clearly everything in this post belies the alleged ills of absence of free speech
 
Ignore Cooper, he's a bad troll.

Anyway, I was born in Germany and grew up going to a German language school, where I was exposed to a fair amount of culture from the Fatherland. In Cincinnati, a town built largely by German immigrants, we celebrate Oktoberfest yearly and one of the city's downtown areas is called "Over the Rhine." So I'm pretty much alright with Germany. It's my number one citation when faced with claims of "universal healthcare/education would never work." Thank you for being so prosperous, you guys, it only helps further my Evil Socialist Agenda (tm).

However, there is the elephant in the room. One thing I've noticed among people my age group, and among people older than me whose education can generally be described of as "not in the histories," is the immediate association between Germany and World War II, specifically Nazism and the Holocaust. Furthermore, it's almost a guarantee on the internet that some thing or things will be compared in some way to any part of Nazi Germany at some point. Godwin's law, and all that.

How do you, modern Germans, deal with Hitler's legacy? What is your response when a mouth-breathing reprobate like me brings him up on an internet forum? Do you not really care, because you know that it's in the past and you had nothing to do with it, or does a sense of painful guilt linger, because you feel like there's blood on your hands? Do you feel anger at having no peace from the endless comparisons and citations?

I am honestly quite curious to know.

edit: Damnit, I just remembered what my signature is. Sorry about that. >_>;
 
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