Advertisement
Civilization Fanatics' Center

Go Back   Civilization Fanatics' Forums > CIVILIZATION IV > Civ4 - Game of the Month > Civ4 - Succession GOTM

Notices

Civ4 - Succession GOTM Forum for all versions of Civ4 SGOTM.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Feb 27, 2011, 07:54 AM   #141
justjohn
King
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 610
OK. Played through the Settle on Corn strategy. Just to mix things up a bit, I decided to build LH before Settler (Keath already did the other way round). The screenshot is again from turn 71. Building LH before Settler postponed Orleans by 3 turns (Keath would found it turn 64, I founded it turn 67), but allowed me to get out WB3 in time for Orleans. This will make up for those 3 turns fast, not to mention that I've already built the LH in Paris. Still, this approach is clearly not as good as SPH, as can easily be seen from the screenshots. (SCorn leaves Paris with less production and 1 size smaller. Plus Paris has more turns of unhappiness from whipping compared to SPH.)

Unless people have more ideas, I'm voting for SPH and dima's last plan for that start. (I might have a small improvement, which I'll write down later.)

-jj-

Last edited by justjohn; Sep 25, 2011 at 06:44 AM.
justjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 27, 2011, 05:29 PM   #142
Keath
King
 
Keath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 954
Wow! This discussion is super! Very good analysis by everyone. It looks like we have some very knowledgeable players! I suggest we let everyone have a chance to try these saves or upload their own. Once we have a majority for one option, we can set up a roster and build the first city.

Summary (check last pages for turnset reports):
We have three city choices:
1. SIP - border pop t8 - Fishing t10 Worker in 13 at 3750bc - Abandon 10h->wb?
2. Corn - Sail -> Min in 11 - Worker in 8 - Complete worker or abandon?
3. PH - as Corn but one turn behind 3725bc - could use the mines.

Other tries could be to SIP and build settler (??!!) -> By t89 two cities Paris Pop5, Orleans pop1 - grow in 21 worker chopping granary. Two netted clams Alphabet 39 at 90%. Paris wb in 2. Both cities have lh. Research Min/BW (to get slavery while settler moves) Fish/Sail/Pottery/Writing/Alphabet.

Check the Progress and Results Page for first turns and check our post count. We have the third most posts. Well done, team!!
Keath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 08:33 AM   #143
justjohn
King
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 610
An isolated start like this (hence no barbarians and prob no contact) + no random events = easy to plan many turns. No doubt all the experienced teams make such long plans too.

Attached is my "spreadsheet" for SPH (latest optimization). As you can see, it's not really a spreadsheet. It's just a plain text file, and all calculations have been done by hand. This is how I usually do it.

-jj-
Attached Files
File Type: txt SPH-plan.txt (3.0 KB, 22 views)
justjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 11:16 AM   #144
Keath
King
 
Keath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjohn View Post
An isolated start like this (hence no barbarians and prob no contact) + no random events = easy to plan many turns. No doubt all the experienced teams make such long plans too.
For our status as a 'new' team, this game and the isolation make it a perfect start. Instructive, but most important - we can plan accurately these opening moves -AND- this start helps even the playing field for us. As you say, all the teams do something similar. This is a great example, jj, way to go!

Quote:
Attached is my "spreadsheet" for SPH (latest optimization). As you can see, it's not really a spreadsheet. It's just a plain text file, and all calculations have been done by hand. This is how I usually do it.
-jj-
Very nice! I am going to see if I can duplicate your results using this guide.
Keath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 11:27 AM   #145
AlanH
Mac addict, php monkey

 
AlanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: England
Posts: 27,334
You will have noticed that your team thread title still contains extra information in brackets. The reason for this is that the forum software will not allow thread titles to contain only upper case letters, so SGOTM 13 - TNT is verboten. I don't want to change the SGOTM 13 bit, as this conforms with the standard we try to adopt throughout the GOTM forums. So I can either change your team name to TnT, Tnt, tnt ...., or include some extra lower case text.

Your choice.
__________________
-- Alan -- - Fold for TeamCFC Avatar image: Milan Trykar. Courtesy of Snow Leopard Trust
C-IV SGOTM Links: [thread= 529162]BtS SGOTM 20 Maintenance Thread[/thread] | Progress & Results | BUFFY Mod for BtS 3.19
Mac OS X C-IV Utilities Drag'n'Drop Mod Installer | GOTM Mac HOF Mod | Macapaka .fpk File Extractor and Creator | GOTM Mac Assets Checker
Civ3 Utilities: 20K Culture Excel Calc w. Anarchy OS X: FileValet compressor/archiver for Civ3 Complete | Civ3 1.29b2 Updater | TextEdit for Civ3 Mods
AlanH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 11:41 AM   #146
Keath
King
 
Keath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 954
A question: "DS has given an AI the GLH which requires Sailing. If I am right, when one AI knows Sailing, the barbs can build galleys. Is that correct?"

@AlanH - Would -TNT- work?

Edit - OR *TNT* •TNT• ...TNT... •••TNT••• and so on. What do you think, team? Other ideas?

Last edited by Keath; Feb 28, 2011 at 11:45 AM.
Keath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 01:54 PM   #147
dima42
Prince
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: san francisco, ca
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keath View Post
A question: "DS has given an AI the GLH which requires Sailing. If I am right, when one AI knows Sailing, the barbs can build galleys. Is that correct?"
This is a hell of a good question, and one that definitely requires testing. If any worldbuilder expert can figure this out, please do! I think it could affect our plans dramatically. I'll take a look at this in about 30 hours if no one gets around to it by then.
dima42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 02:00 PM   #148
justjohn
King
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keath View Post
A question: "DS has given an AI the GLH which requires Sailing. If I am right, when one AI knows Sailing, the barbs can build galleys. Is that correct?"
In World Builder you can give any city any Wonder without meeting any of the prerequisites. I doubt very much that he gave Sailing to that AI and probably not a normal Lighthouse, just the GLH.

As to when barb Galley appear, I'm not sure. And for all I know, there might be a different trigger for when barbs can build Galleys (in their cities) and when barb Galleys will appear at random.

EDIT: We could test this experimentally. I'll change my test save by giving an AI just the GLH. And then we can play through it until turn 75 (as in the latest SPH). If we don't encounter any barb Galley in say 10 test games, then we probably won't in SGOTM either. And then we could test it again giving GLH + Sailing to an AI, or something similar.

As to the team name, I'm quite sure AlanH did not mean "must contain some symbol different from a uppercase letter", but rather "must contain a lowercase letter". Evidence: The thread title already contains a dash and some square brackets.

-jj-

Last edited by justjohn; Feb 28, 2011 at 02:03 PM.
justjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 02:12 PM   #149
dima42
Prince
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: san francisco, ca
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjohn View Post
probably not a normal Lighthouse, just the GLH.
I believe this is incorrect. The AI in question has both a lighthouse and GLH, as per first page of the signup thread.
dima42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 02:25 PM   #150
justjohn
King
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by dima42 View Post
I believe this is incorrect. The AI in question has both a lighthouse and GLH, as per first page of the signup thread.
Ah, you're right. So it says in the game description. But it doesn't change the fact that you can easily give these things to an AI without giving them the tech. I just tested and verified that. (Well, I gave GLH to myself without giving me Sailing or even a Lighthouse. No problemo.)
justjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 02:30 PM   #151
AlanH
Mac addict, php monkey

 
AlanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: England
Posts: 27,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keath View Post
A question: "DS has given an AI the GLH which requires Sailing. If I am right, when one AI knows Sailing, the barbs can build galleys. Is that correct?"

@AlanH - Would -TNT- work?

Edit - OR *TNT* •TNT• ...TNT... •••TNT••• and so on. What do you think, team? Other ideas?
Asterisks seem to work.
__________________
-- Alan -- - Fold for TeamCFC Avatar image: Milan Trykar. Courtesy of Snow Leopard Trust
C-IV SGOTM Links: [thread= 529162]BtS SGOTM 20 Maintenance Thread[/thread] | Progress & Results | BUFFY Mod for BtS 3.19
Mac OS X C-IV Utilities Drag'n'Drop Mod Installer | GOTM Mac HOF Mod | Macapaka .fpk File Extractor and Creator | GOTM Mac Assets Checker
Civ3 Utilities: 20K Culture Excel Calc w. Anarchy OS X: FileValet compressor/archiver for Civ3 Complete | Civ3 1.29b2 Updater | TextEdit for Civ3 Mods
AlanH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 02:37 PM   #152
justjohn
King
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanH View Post
Asterisks seem to work.
Are you sure? I would think it was because SGOTM is no longer written in uppercase (which I assume is just a mistake anyway).
justjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 02:37 PM   #153
dima42
Prince
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: san francisco, ca
Posts: 331
From this link:

At what time will the game spawn barb Galleys?

* the era of barb animals must be over (NumCities >= 3/2*NumPlayers; GameTurns > Handicap.BarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed * GameSpeed.BarbPercent)
* the barbs must know Sailing


How do barbs acquire their techs?

* Their real research rate is almost guaranteed to be 0, since they aren't allowed to have a Palace (8 commerce) and thus suffer from high maintenance (but they don't lose units via STRIKE).
* So they merely receive the 1 free beaker everybody gets (BASE_RESEARCH_RATE) for their current research plus 3% (BARBARIAN_FREE_TECH_PERCENT) of the cost of a tech scaled by the percentage of players who know it for each technology each turn. Hence, if the majority of the players in the game knows Sailing, it won't be long until the first barb Galleys come visit your fishing grounds.
dima42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 02:39 PM   #154
AlanH
Mac addict, php monkey

 
AlanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: England
Posts: 27,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by justjohn View Post
Are you sure? I would think it was because SGOTM is no longer written in uppercase (which I assume is just a mistake anyway).
Whoops! Yes, it changed it to enforce the rule. Well spotted.\
[EDIT] How's that? 'TNT thread'
__________________
-- Alan -- - Fold for TeamCFC Avatar image: Milan Trykar. Courtesy of Snow Leopard Trust
C-IV SGOTM Links: [thread= 529162]BtS SGOTM 20 Maintenance Thread[/thread] | Progress & Results | BUFFY Mod for BtS 3.19
Mac OS X C-IV Utilities Drag'n'Drop Mod Installer | GOTM Mac HOF Mod | Macapaka .fpk File Extractor and Creator | GOTM Mac Assets Checker
Civ3 Utilities: 20K Culture Excel Calc w. Anarchy OS X: FileValet compressor/archiver for Civ3 Complete | Civ3 1.29b2 Updater | TextEdit for Civ3 Mods
AlanH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 03:13 PM   #155
justjohn
King
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 610
Other suggestions:

TNT's thread
TNT - tread carefully!

I would like the last one, but I'm not sure if it's allowed to include text which obviously is not part of the name.
justjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 03:40 PM   #156
Keath
King
 
Keath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 954
Certainly TNT thread is okay, but I put it to the team. Is there another way to put it?

TNT thread
TNT's thread
TNT - tread carefully!
TNT ***caution***

Other choices anyone?
Keath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 03:44 PM   #157
AlanH
Mac addict, php monkey

 
AlanH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: England
Posts: 27,334
The last two are not options. Everyone will want a warning added, and I could end up making a new career out of editing titles
__________________
-- Alan -- - Fold for TeamCFC Avatar image: Milan Trykar. Courtesy of Snow Leopard Trust
C-IV SGOTM Links: [thread= 529162]BtS SGOTM 20 Maintenance Thread[/thread] | Progress & Results | BUFFY Mod for BtS 3.19
Mac OS X C-IV Utilities Drag'n'Drop Mod Installer | GOTM Mac HOF Mod | Macapaka .fpk File Extractor and Creator | GOTM Mac Assets Checker
Civ3 Utilities: 20K Culture Excel Calc w. Anarchy OS X: FileValet compressor/archiver for Civ3 Complete | Civ3 1.29b2 Updater | TextEdit for Civ3 Mods
AlanH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 03:50 PM   #158
fizbankovi
Warlord
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 273
god, sorry guys im way to tired from work to contribute... i realy am curius to have a start. As i said im happy with ANY of them.. we seem to have good alternatives.

btw how about :

"This is TNT!"
fizbankovi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 04:33 PM   #159
Keath
King
 
Keath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 954
Forum Threads of Interest

Some threads of interest:

Isolated starts: Isolated starts are among the most feared and difficult - be forewarned!

Game speed: Our game is at Epic Speed.

Barbs: From dima42 post - further testing ongoing.

WB in depth: If you want to get into scenario building.

SGOTM 02 CFR thread

Common acronyms:

Napoleon historical: Background.

If you want other threads listed here for convenience, post the links and I'll update.
Keath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 28, 2011, 04:43 PM   #160
Keath
King
 
Keath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 954
Updated:

TNT thread
TNT's thread
This is TNT!

Other choices anyone?

@AlanH -- This will only matter for the name on the Progress and Results page, right?
Keath is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back Civilization Fanatics' Forums > CIVILIZATION IV > Civ4 - Game of the Month > Civ4 - Succession GOTM > [BTS] SGOTM 13 - TNT thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Advertisement

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
This site is copyright © Civilization Fanatics' Center.
Support CFC: Amazon.com | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon CA | Amazon FR