Idea: Great Philosophers

[Save_Ferris]

Throughout time, many philosophers have changed our world: Plato, Confucius, even Mark Twain. So my idea was: Why not include this in an expansion pack?

Great Philosophers I thought, should focus on happiness. They could be able to make a building (I don't know what it should be called) that increases the nation's happiness or stop unhappinessinan annexed city. They could also go inside a city-state's borders and make it an ally, consuming the unit. But what wonders would give GP points?

Apart from specialists in courthouses, great philosophers could come from a new type of wonder: a document. Examples could in include Hammurabi's code, the Magna Carta, and the Constitution. All of this could be bundled with the return of religion in a philosophy-themed expansion pack.

Thoughts?

[noncognosco]

Originally Posted by Save_Ferris

They could also go inside a city-state's borders and make it anally, consuming the unit.

Thoughts?

I am not sure what this means, but I don't like the sound of it.

[Save_Ferris]

Originally Posted by noncognosco

I am not sure what this means, but I don't like the sound of it.

Figure out what it should mean.

[lordsurya08]

I'm surprised you didn't fix the typo by now lol.

Back to the topic...I like this idea. Great document sounds cool, not so sure about the building or city state thing, as Great Engineers and Great Merchant do similar things.

How bout Great Philosophers rushing a policy?

[noncognosco]

Originally Posted by Save_Ferris

Figure out what it should mean.

Although I do not dispute that many historical philosophers were into "making it anally," especially the Greek ones, it is unclear to me why this would consume the unit (presumably they did it more than once in their lives) or what effect this would have on a city state.

[noncognosco]

Originally Posted by lordsurya08

I'm surprised you didn't fix the typo by now lol.

I don't think its a typo based on his response to me.

[Louis XXIV]

Originally Posted by Save_Ferris

Figure out what it should mean.

I actually stared at it for two minutes before a lightbulb clicked and I figured it out. Seriously, might as well just go back and fix the typo, unnecessary antagonism notwithstanding.

[Threedog43]

It's really not that hard to figure out...

[DaveGold]

I'm not entirely against the idea of a great philosopher but they need to find their own niche. Most historical philosophers can be described as scientists or artists. Historical effects of a philosophers on civilisations were typically scientific discoveries (as scientist), a golden ages (as any gp), great academies (as scientist), or new policies (culture from artists). I don't think they wrote many of the great documents, and theology and philosophy can form a very confusing mix which probably isn't best modelled in a computer game. Who is a modern philosopher, Stephen Hawking maybe, and could he invent Taoism?

If philosophers came into the game I'd like to see them perhaps steal an idea from colonization. There could be a number of 'concepts' available for discovery and you could expend a great person to discover them; each concept giving a unique benefit. As an example, if you had the tradition policy you could use a great leader or great philosopher to give you the 'Magna Carta', which would permanently give various tradition benefits only to your civilisation. If you were in the industrial era you could take a concept relating to Marxism or Communism, perhaps allowing revolution and reallocation of social policies.

[Krikkitone]

Originally Posted by DaveGold

I'm not entirely against the idea of a great philosopher but they need to find their own niche. Most historical philosophers can be described as scientists or artists. Historical effects of a philosophers on civilisations were typically scientific discoveries (as scientist), a golden ages (as any gp), great academies (as scientist), or new policies (culture from artists). I don't think they wrote many of the great documents, and theology and philosophy can form a very confusing mix which probably isn't best modelled in a computer game. Who is a modern philosopher, Stephen Hawking maybe, and could he invent Taoism?

If philosophers came into the game I'd like to see them perhaps steal an idea from colonization. There could be a number of 'concepts' available for discovery and you could expend a great person to discover them; each concept giving a unique benefit. As an example, if you had the tradition policy you could use a great leader or great philosopher to give you the 'Magna Carta', which would permanently give various tradition benefits only to your civilisation. If you were in the industrial era you could take a concept relating to Marxism or Communism, perhaps allowing revolution and reallocation of social policies.

That exists currently in the form of Social Policies themselves.

Philosophers would basically have to be Social Policy granters (hence Philosophy->Oracle->social Policy)

[Moss]

Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas and Suggestions

[Camikaze]

Essentially what Krikkitone said. There was an idea floating around for Great Artists to give benefits with regards to social policies (for example, they could give a free social policy, in an overpowered version of the concept). But Great Philosophers helping with SPs makes much more sense. So how about shifting GAs to a happiness focus, and implementing GPs as an SP rusher.

[Save_Ferris]

Originally Posted by Camikaze

Essentially what Krikkitone said. There was an idea floating around for Great Artists to give benefits with regards to social policies (for example, they could give a free social policy, in an overpowered version of the concept). But Great Philosophers helping with SPs makes much more sense. So how about shifting GAs to a happiness focus, and implementing GPs as an SP rusher.

Yeah, but how, and by how much, would GAs increase happiness?

[jojorah]

not all philosophers where scientists, like voltaire, well mabey most are artists but without people like voltaire we may not live in a society so tolerant, mabey a great person called a revolutionary? dont know.

[Louis XXIV]

Not much you can do with the Voltaires and Lockes of this world, unfortunately.

[Camikaze]

Originally Posted by Save_Ferris

Yeah, but how, and by how much, would GAs increase happiness?

A permanent +3 perhaps? A temporary +10 ? I don't know what would be best balanced, but something along those lines is what I was thinking.

[BSPollux]

Philosophys meaning has changed over the ages. In old times it basicaly describes everyone with a decent level of education while today its somewhat like a branch of science.

If you wanted to bring them in, they shoul replace ALL great persons prior to a given technology that unlocks them. Like maybe scientific methods unlocks great scientists. If the rules say you earned a great scientist but you dont have that tech yet, you will get a philosopher instead.

Basicaly at the beginning there will hardly anything but generals and philosophers and while the society b ecomes more advanced and complex new specialists become available.

[CYZ]

I think the best way to implement this is:

Artists stay the same:
Improvement adds culture over time
Special ability gives territory

Philosopher:
Improvement adds happyness (perhaps around 3 or 4?)
Special ability gives you a free SP


Obviously there is some overlap in the cultural aspect, but it seems balanced to me at least.

[Krikkitone]

Originally Posted by CYZ

I think the best way to implement this is:

Artists stay the same:
Improvement adds culture over time
Special ability gives territory

Philosopher:
Improvement adds happyness (perhaps around 3 or 4?)
Special ability gives you a free SP


Obviously there is some overlap in the cultural aspect, but it seems balanced to me at least.

Free SP is worth a lot...perhaps a free Random SP?

[Camikaze]

Random is unbalancing, though. Best to give a culture boost instead; you get to direct it, but make it so as to be not as much as an entire free policy.