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Old May 10, 2011, 03:21 AM   #21
lymond
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FR - The reason for moving the warrior onto the forested plains hill is simply that him moving any other direction provides little to no information that benefits us. And actually we have a pretty good idea what lies to the south at least tile wise and it ain't pretty. He should reveal quite a few tiles to the west and north of that position.

In a succession game, generally what we do is move the warrior or scout to the position we designate...stop...post a screenshot...the team then reviews the new information to determine if and where to move settler. In this case, if the warrior does not reveal anything that changes our idea of moving the settler east onto the plains hill then the first player will proceed with that move...stop...post a screen...the team then reviews the new information and discusses whether to settle on the new spot or move the settler again, and discuss tech path.
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Old May 10, 2011, 07:04 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by vranasm View Post
btw I realized now that if we settle on the PH 2E1N we will lose the cows and then we can probably go strictly agri->TW->pottery if there will be no other lucrative food around ;-).

Will speed up the tech path much more and worker should have enough work (12T to build, 5T? farm FP ~ 17T) agri+TW should be around 17-18T anyway. So while waiting for pottery you could lay down some roads in the direction of future city spot.

But I think we really should decide on the settling spot once you make the scouting move ;-)
That sounds pretty cool. I can work with the save only in the evening, though. So,
iiuc, it is expected to have a move with the warrior onto the grass hill to the West, or 1NW, iirc, and then move the settler onto the PH - or even only 1NE - and we discuss what we see, if anything.

I appreciate also the explanation in the previuos longer post of yours regarding the turn gain/recoup following settling on the ph.
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Old May 10, 2011, 07:12 AM   #23
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iiuc

FR - Until we get used to your Bulgarian acro-speak, you might need to spell it out for the first time. I think I know what lol stands for
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Old May 10, 2011, 07:13 AM   #24
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iiuc

FR - Until we get used to your Bulgarian acro-speak, you might need to spell it out for the first time. I think I know what lol stands for
HAHA! Shame man, i think it's just a typo!

[edit] if I understand correctly(???) [/edit]

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Old May 10, 2011, 09:45 AM   #25
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HAHA! Shame man, i think it's just a typo!

[edit] if I understand correctly(???) [/edit]
Exactly, madam. And not exactly a BG acronym...but maybe too hard to decipher, indeed!
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Old May 10, 2011, 10:03 AM   #26
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Below is the screenshot. Nice to see we can expand - or get attacked - from the West, too. I would go for the ph. Will wait a couple of hours, more if less than half of you endorses this.

Last edited by FiveRings; May 10, 2011 at 10:30 AM.
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Old May 10, 2011, 10:06 AM   #27
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Below is the screenshot. Nice to see we can expand - or get attacked - from the West, too. I would go for the ph. Will wait a couple of hours, more if less than half of you endorses this.
I am affraid I don't see any image... something went wrong.
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Old May 10, 2011, 10:33 AM   #28
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I am affraid I don't see any image... something went wrong.
Sorry, no matter what I do, I can't get the image from the bucket onto the post. Here's the save. Well, somehow I did manage to ger a thumbnail into the post.
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Old May 10, 2011, 11:49 AM   #29
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I hope you can see the picture...I do.

As there are no opinions and ideas whatsoever, i'd just wait for an hour or so, then move the settler to the ph, then post.
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Old May 10, 2011, 11:56 AM   #30
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yep the land to west is crap.
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Old May 10, 2011, 01:18 PM   #31
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Oh, just take a look at the land - land?!?!? - to the East... And as it is time to get some ideas about whether to settle or continue wandering, I am leaving it for your consideration till tomorrow evening (I might drop a word or two by then, although I find myself somewhat speechless right now).

I'd settle. If we have a chance - I guess no, as there would have been a computer indication that this is a nice place to settle - we'll get Cu or Fe. Otherwise, farms in the stead of cottages. The good news is that the capital will be balanced in food and hammers, the bad news is that it will be too balanced - from what we see now.
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Old May 10, 2011, 01:25 PM   #32
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lol...now that is something...

This spot sucks like hell btw... 3 desert hills (only 3 hammers) and the amount of unhealth (soo many FP's) will make this spot completely unsuitable...

just wow :-). Can you post the save? maybe some lurk to the northern PH is granted, from the SS I can't see what is there in fog.

One thing is clear though... Agri-->Pottery.

I am interested to hear from Lymond and Cam what they have to say... didn't saw something like that in BtS...
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Old May 10, 2011, 02:46 PM   #33
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Well, the biggest issue is the total lack of true resources and, of course, health. I'm not too worried about the desert hills - it is still production and there appears to be a PH to the north. Looks like there is a couple of forest to the East to alleviate some health. Eventually this could turn out to be a decent FIN cap. However, the problem is that the low initial food/production and bad health will make settler production slow. We may need to start a settler at size 2 or 3 before the health gets bad to get him out and settle some resources.

As for continued settler scouting, the problem is there is nothing glaring that indicates a good city to start with. We might move around forever.

Another option is to settle 2 or 3 south to bring the cows back into play. However, at this point, I'm inclined to SIP and just deal with it for now. Early Pottery would indeed be good to make this city decent, but we should farm a flood plain or two at first to boost settler/worker production.
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Old May 10, 2011, 03:08 PM   #34
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i was thinking on the granary too. If I am not much mistaken we could actually be at 0 health at size 2 from all those FP's after 1st border pop.

I once had something like this as start and remember this to be very tough to operate with...
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Old May 10, 2011, 03:14 PM   #35
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Granary doesn't do much unless you have the resources to give bonus. If we settle the cows site next, it can take on some of the flood plains and help grow cottages.
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Old May 10, 2011, 04:54 PM   #36
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For lack of greater inspiration ...



... with a view to the 'blue area' on the southern Desert Hill as "The Evil Lair". Essentially an effort to split up the Floodplains and the Hills across several cities.
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Old May 11, 2011, 12:45 AM   #37
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Wow, what a crappy roll! Personally, I would settle blue. Although it is a bit of a walk, so far it seems like the best spot for me. Plus, we don't know what is in the fog. Although, with the luck we had so far, it's probably desert
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Old May 11, 2011, 12:59 AM   #38
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I think we should just settle at the spot we are right now.

I like Cam's splitting of FP's, which will be badly needed and it will be good for instant trade routes due to culture touching and rivers.

I am the meaning we could even go with the early game with:

1) tech Aggri and TW while building worker
2) improve 1 FP to farm with worker, tech pottery
3) grow into size 2 on warrior, lay some cottage
4) at size 2 build settler, maybe even 2 settlers and settle the FP's around. The capital will not grow anytime soon to size 3

things to check :-). How long at size 2 with 1 FP farm and 1 FP cottage for 1 settler (could it be 4+3+2-4 = 5 ~ 20T for settler?), +3F means 7-8T for grow to size 2 (will be probably 7T due to finishing the farm around T21), overall T 42 first settler?

How long till "serious" barbs on Monarch.

New cities should produce warriors of course. It's a bit risky tactic if it was on Imm+ (due to soonish barbs)

edit:

oops the calculations are wrong ;-) like completely

1) we get the worker at T12 (PH bonus), farm due in T18
2) the production into settler will be 4F+3F+2F+2H-4F = 7 ~ 15T

meaning we can look at settler from size 2 around T 34.

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Old May 11, 2011, 02:57 AM   #39
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I think we should just settle at the spot we are right now.

I like Cam's splitting of FP's, which will be badly needed and it will be good for instant trade routes due to culture touching and rivers.

I am the meaning we could even go with the early game with:

1) tech Aggri and TW while building worker
2) improve 1 FP to farm with worker, tech pottery
3) grow into size 2 on warrior, lay some cottage
4) at size 2 build settler, maybe even 2 settlers and settle the FP's around. The capital will not grow anytime soon to size 3

things to check :-). How long at size 2 with 1 FP farm and 1 FP cottage for 1 settler (could it be 4+3+2-4 = 5 ~ 20T for settler?), +3F means 7-8T for grow to size 2 (will be probably 7T due to finishing the farm around T21), overall T 42 first settler?

How long till "serious" barbs on Monarch.

New cities should produce warriors of course. It's a bit risky tactic if it was on Imm+ (due to soonish barbs)

edit:

oops the calculations are wrong ;-) like completely

1) we get the worker at T12 (PH bonus), farm due in T18
2) the production into settler will be 4F+3F+2F+2H-4F = 7 ~ 15T

meaning we can look at settler from size 2 around T 34.
I'd also consider settling in the place we are now on. Going to the three of the places indicated by Cam is associated with too much of risk as less than 2/3 of the tiles can be seen, as of now. The one NW is nothing very promising, but seems at least plausible, and the settlement can take place on the 2nd turn.
The hill to the South (I don't see the "blue area" but assume that that's the place referred to by Cam and W) can be settled only on the 3rd turn, and with all the unknown tiles around it - although, most probably, there won't be more than a couple of tiles with 0 or one food - I personally prefer to SIP, meaning the ph where we are now (SIPaon - settling in place as of now). With so many flood plains around we can definitely farm more than 1 fp - I kind of prefer to cottage the grassland and farm the fp, than the other way round, but am open to follow the expert advice - and grow a bit more than level 2 - to L3 maybe?! In the case of farming a seconf fp first, we'll also get the settler 2 or even 3 turns earlier, it seems - even if we don't get the chance of an L3 cap.
I think that SIPaon means also reconsidering the placement of other towns - I see the NE one moved 1E, and the S one moved further to the South, but this is something to discuss upon agreement about settling vs moving further.
As of now, we are facing also the issue of popping or not-popping the hut with the warrior. So early in the game the Lord of AIs seems to allow for positive outcomes - as far as I can tell from my personal experience. It also doesn't seem to matter whether we are settled or not with regard to chances of getting gold or a unit, I am not so sure about tech. I am willing to risk it right away - if another unit comes up, or a decent tech, that looks like helpful. Then move warrior counter-clockwise. What do you think about this?
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Old May 11, 2011, 03:37 AM   #40
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My 2 cents;

(a.) You won't pop a Barbarian from the Hut: Goody Huts' Mechanics if we don't settle a city ... or ... settle within 8 tiles of the hut and then pop it. We can't receive a free technology from the Hut if we haven't founded a city.

(b.) It's the end of the day, and I can't probably count, but there are more Floodplain tiles on the spot you have now (as a BFC) [12] than the original one you've walked away from [11].

(c.) Splitting the Floodplains up in some manner will allow our citizens to breathe something other than Floodplain stench, and we get that 'super' Plains Cow tile if we settle in the blue zone.
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