Thoughts about Ottomans and the new patch.

[Palaiologos2]

Since the new patch makes changes to the civilization's unique abilities as well, i thought i'd share my thoughts about the Ottomans. Despite the fact that i am a Greek national, and i am supposed to be biased against them, i am not.
However the Ottomans/Turks never were, are not and as it seems never will be a maritime nation. Its not in their genes i suppose. Therefore giving them a maritime bonus seems tottally out of context. And quite frankly in gameplay terms their bonus is lame.
Now it would be much more appropiate to give them instead a "Ottoman tolerance" ability, i.e a couple of happiness points more in occupied foreign cities. Historically the Ottomans(not their Turkish descedants) were one of the more tolerant empires in the history of the Balkans. Seeing the new nerfs the new patch brings to happiness buildings, i think their tolerance ability would actually make an impact.

The other thing they were generally known for was their highly efficient diplomatic corps, inherited from the Byzantine Greeks. But i don't know how that could be effectively implemented in game.

Since i ussually dwell on the civ2 fora, i really don't know if this has been brought up before.

[BobDole]

It's a game; having a naval-based UA adds variety. Is there a lot of historical context for it? Maybe, I'd assume they got it from somewhere, but anyway, as long as it's fun and useful (still questionable if it is, but at least it looks slightly appealing now), that's what matters to most people.

And hey, it makes more sense than Giant Death Robots (although I'm glad there's finally a future unit in the game personally).

[Louis XXIV]

Actually, they had a pretty good navy in the Mediterranean. Plus, they did also promote piracy from their sort of clients on the African coast. Was it their focus? Of course not, but the Janissaries and Spiahi help represent them as a land power. There's a certain lack of synergy that is unfortunate, though. Still, on Continents, collect a lot of Galleys and use the navy to support your very powerful land army.

[Thry]

It's a game, we don't care if the UA matches what they did in real-life or not.

It's the same fricking reason why you can get Infantry before Riflemen.

[Save_Ferris]

Ever heard of the battle of Lepanto? They lost, but still...

[OrsonM]

I love playing with Ottomans, they really shine at exploring the world on Continents, Earth and Archipelago.

At the end of exploration, sadly, you were left with around 10-12 ships, which had to be disbanded because the upkeep was too much. Happy to see now you can keep a few of them.

[Morningcalm]

Have you guys ever heard of Khair ad-Din Barbarossa? Great pirate who became an admiral of the Ottoman navy, and it is his success whom the "Barbary Corsairs" trait is based on. It's a fitting trait, though I'd argue Spain or England would have been a better choice for a naval UA of some sort.

[McRoos]

Originally Posted by Save_Ferris

Ever heard of the battle of Lepanto? They lost, but still...

Also; did you hear about the Malta Siege in 1565.

The Ottoman Empire invaded the island, then held by the Knights Hospitaller (also known as the Sovereign Order of Saint John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta, Knights of Malta, Knights of Rhodes, and Chevaliers of Malta)

The Knights won the siege, one of the bloodiest and most fiercely contested in history and one which became one of the most celebrated events in sixteenth century Europe.
The siege was the climax of an escalating contest between a Christian alliance and the Ottoman Empire for control of the Mediterranean, a contest that included Turkish corsair Turgut Reis's attack on Malta in 1551, and the Turks' utter destruction of an allied Christian fleet at the Battle of Djerba in 1560.
----

Who said they couldn' sail the winds ?

Then again, if any nation should be seen as a maritime nation, it should be the Dutch. The Dutch East India Company (Dutch: Vereenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie, VOC) was a chartered company established in 1602, when the States-General of the Netherlands granted it a 21-year monopoly to carry out colonial activities in Asia. It was the first multinational corporation in the world and the first company to issue stock. It was also arguably the world's first megacorporation, possessing quasi-governmental powers, including the ability to wage war, imprison and execute convicts, negotiate treaties, coin money, and establish colonies.

No that's what you call maritime and so, when do we welcome them !!

[marioflag]

One thing i don't yet understand is if the changes applied to Ottomans and Germans are cumulative with their previous UA, or they just replace their previous bonuses?
In the latter case denomination of their UA should be changed accordingly.

[Palaiologos2]

As for the Lepanto and Malta arguments i'm sorry but quite frankly are naive. You can find excellent naval commanders and operations in all the nations around the world. That doesn't make their nations "maritime"or "navy oriented".
And of course it is a game and there has to be a variety in the civs abilities. But is a game that very abstractly represents the historical evolution of man. If the developers wanted a couple of maritime civs to balance things up, they might as well have given the traits to the proper civs.

And as a sidenote being a maritime nation means they actually pioneered the field like the Greeks, Phoenicians, Spaniards and Portugeese. And the Brits and Dutch. Not just having a famous pirate who made a name of himself by raiding.

[He-Who-Hunts]

I usually play England now but I think i will def be playing as sule after the patch.

You see I generally play a smaller empire game (because I'm on the road these days and am forced to use a lappy - do not have access to my comp back home), and as England I typically build up a small navy (around 4) and I promote the hell out of them.

Its not uncommon to have my fleet all have ranges and Logistics, and let me tell you a group of Ship-of-the-Line's or destroyers with extra range and an extra attack per turn can be quite powerful.

In fact with all my cities on the coast (usually 1 to 3, sometimes 4) its really all the defense I need, perhaps save a ground unit in each city to clean up any left overs. I cant imagine what it'll be like to have 67% off all my ships and have a crap load more due to turning barbs!

PLUS the Janissary is going to be a beast, the patch will nerf Longswords... which is a buff to Muskets.

Very excited to see my Barbary Corsairs!