[C3C] Raliuven SG2 Demi-God Aztecs

[Raliuven]

Okay, the last game was Emperor, so this one is Demi-God. Random draw of the Civ gives the Aztecs, not too bad. I did pick the map settings but I generated them randomly (the roll of the die) except for barbarians, which is raging.

C3C
Demi-God

Size: Standard
Map: Continents
Water: 60%
Climate: Normal
Temperature: Warm
Age: 4 Billion
Barbarians: Raging (of course)

Civ: Random (Aztec) Militaristic & Agriculture
UU: Jaguar Warrior (1/1/2, 15 shields)

Victory Condition: Launch a Space Ship. Preferably with an Aztec crew. Destination: Aztec Centauri

The first roll gives this for a start:

Spoiler:

Looks like we get to start in the weeds.


I'm hoping for 3-4 players to join.

Roster:

Raliuven
creamcheese
Elephantium
CKS
????

[creamcheese]

I am in. I am not at all excited by the start location, but a challenge is a challenge.

I think we should go for space, as the last one was military. Trying to be an aztec builder will be a little odd, but what can you do?

As an alternative we could try some variant rules or something.

[Elephantium]

I'd like to join this one, too

Space is a good VC. I'd also be interested in a 100k culture game (cultured Aztecs! ). For the start, I'd suggest moving 1S and roading/mining the sugar, then do the same for the BG (unless our move reveals something better).

[Raliuven]

Originally Posted by creamcheese

I am in. I am not at all excited by the start location, but a challenge is a challenge.

I think we should go for space, as the last one was military. Trying to be an aztec builder will be a little odd, but what can you do?

As an alternative we could try some variant rules or something.

I was thinking the same thing - this would have been a decent Civ for the last game. At least we can see a little green on the screen and it is not covered in jungle this time.

I am open to suggestions on variant rules if you've got some ideas. Otherwise, standard GOTM/COTM rules apply?

Originally Posted by Elephantium

I'd like to join this one, too

Space is a good VC. I'd also be interested in a 100k culture game (cultured Aztecs! ). For the start, I'd suggest moving 1S and roading/mining the sugar, then do the same for the BG (unless our move reveals something better).

Why don't we leave both options on the table - we'll take a look around and then settle on a VC. I agree with your starting moves. I'll kick the game off and when a bit of fog is pushed back, I will report. It'll take most of my turns just to mine and road the sugar anyway. Not sure where I'll find the time to write the turn log!

We have pottery, so Alpha at max to get the slingshot?

[creamcheese]

Originally Posted by Raliuven

I am open to suggestions on variant rules if you've got some ideas. Otherwise, standard GOTM/COTM rules apply?

Well, I have been experimenting with Always War games lately, but you already started on Demigod and that is a little high for AW I think so I didn't mention it.

Originally Posted by Raliuven

We have pottery, so Alpha at max to get the slingshot?

Yes, for sure. If we miss the slingshot we can always aim for literature. We will need a lot more research than last game if we are going for space.

[Raliuven]

Originally Posted by creamcheese

Well, I have been experimenting with Always War games lately, but you already started on Demigod and that is a little high for AW I think so I didn't mention it.

I've tried AW once or twice. On Regent. And got my butt kicked around the screen. Actually, once I had a good game going as France only there was no iron in sight. None. So I managed to make do with my desert homeland thinking I'd have salt for sure - I actually had a very nice size chunk of land. Firgured I could just jump from horses to Cav. Yep. No salt either.

I'd be really interested in playing an AW game, but definately not at DG! Well unless you want to play a very, very short game!

[Elephantium]

Aztecs would be one of the better AWDG tribes, actually. Iroquois are probably a bit stronger -- they really take off with HBR if you have horses.

Really, any AW game boils down to "hold off the AI long enough to scrape together a stack to take the first enemy's cities" -- once you manage to hold a stable front with a favorable kill ratio, even Deity is pretty straightforward. Sid is, too, but it's a lot harder to get over that initial hump.

[CKS]

I'm interested.

I'm happy with either space or 100K. I'll just remind us that we can't wait to long to make the decision, as the research paths diverge very quickly.

Agricultural works really well for 100K, because of all the pop-rushing. ToA helps make up for not being religious. Because the Aztecs aren't religious, I'd go straight for feudalism and skip The Republic; two revolts is really hard. If we are thinking 100K, I think we want to go alphabet, writing, philosophy, and literature.

[Elephantium]

How about snapping up the ToA and building ICS? Does that end up taking too long compared to Feudalism pop-rushing?

[Raliuven]

Welcome aboard CKS, I added you to the roster. Great to have everyone on the team!

Okay, how about we plan for 100k as that has sparked interest. That okay with you creamcheese? I updated the OP and I'll play the first 10 turns tonight.

We've still got a spot (or two) on the Roster if any lurkers are interested.

Roster:

Raliuven (Playing)
creamcheese (on deck)
Elephantium
CKS
????

[CKS]

If we are going for 100K, I'd recommend the Temple of Artemis, ICS, and pop-rushing in feudalism. Core cities should be spaced CxxxC if we can get away with it, so that we can put in extra cities in between once we've pacified the world, or at least our continent. At demigod we probably won't build much culture until we own our continent, so we need to make sure that either we build ToA or a nearby neighbor builds it for us. Likewise, we need the pyramids nearby, so we can pop-rush easily. We want to make sure to spread masonry and polytheism to our nearest neighbors early.

(I don't really have a preference as to 100K or space. I just got interrupted before I could say anything about space in my last post. For space we'd really want to get the republic slingshot. Since we don't start with alphabet, if we can find some neighbors we might consider the writing-philosophy-(trade for code of laws before finishing)-republic gambit if we can't get writing first.)

The start isn't great, but it could be worse. I hate jungle starts. I'm good with moving 1S to settle, provided we don't see something fantastic when the settler moves. Moving off the river loses us 1 fpt, so it'd have to be really great to keep going. We should remember to mine the sugar first, as it already gets 2 g; roading won't give extra cash.

[creamcheese]

I really prefer space, but I rarely play 100k so if that's what the team wants I'll go for it. It will definitely make me think differently from my normal play style.

[Raliuven]

Okay, we can continue to discuss VC.

Here is the world as we know it:



We've got a nice ring of BG. I ran the numbers and decided to leave the sugar without a road for now and go to a BG to the east. The improvement will not come in until after expansion anyway.

The model I used was to push out a second Jaguar for scouting/contacts but it looks like we may be squeezed to the north and south. I thought a third jaguar or a barracks for the 3rd build. If we go with a third jaguar we can squeeze out a settler on turn 26 (drop population to 1 for 2 turns). If we build a barracks instead we get the settler on turn 27 (population to 1 for 1 turn).

Here is the Turn Log for 4000BC-3500BC. I left the Jaguar with movement.

Spoiler:

4000 BC (Turn 0) – Move Settler S. We’ve got a bonus tobacco nearby, but not thing else that changes my mind to move further. Worker starts a mine.
3950 BC (Turn 1) – settle in place and see we’ve got a nice band of BG that will fall into the radius of the capital on growth. Start a Jaguar to use as a scout. Set Alpha at max (90%), due in 35t @ 0gpt.
3700 BC (Turn 6) – Mine builds. I consider moving off the square without putting down a road. I crunch the numbers and run some scenarios and it looks to me that we can get the settler out 1 turn earlier by moving without roading (turn 26 vs turn 27). Cost is 1 worker turn to go back (eventually). I decide to move without roading. We also have the flexibility of building a barracks instead of the 3rd Jaguar warrior, which will put out a settler at turn 27 for both. Not sure if we want a barracks here immediately, cheap to build, but 1gpt to maintain.
Worker moves to BG.
3650 BC (Turn 7) – Worker starts Mine on BG.
3600 BC (Turn 8) – Jaguar goes Ex2 to begin. Lux 20%, Science 80%
3550 BC (Turn 9) – Jaguar goes Sx2. Coastline. I think that is coast to the NE as well.
3500 BC ( Turn 10) – leave Jaguar unmoved for next player.

Roster:

Raliuven (just played)
creamcheese (Playing)
Elephantium (on deck)
CKS

And I've got to post the save (just a minute):

[Elephantium]

Hmm...I would have built the road first. If we're moving the Settler north, we'll be spending that extra turn of having it built early by moving it onto the sugar.

I'd move the Jaguar Warrior N, then E onto that coastal forest.

[creamcheese]

Got it, will play this afternoon.

[creamcheese]

Turn Log:

Spoiler:

Turn 0, 3500BC; Move Jag as elephantium suggests. See a cow!

IBT; Border Expansion. See two ivory!

Turn 1, 3450BC; move jag farther east, find fish. We have a good coastline. Optimize to working tobacco for gold.

IBT; nada

Turn 2, 3400BC; move jag, find some nice hills, maybe a peninsula thing. New jag, send it to check out our ivory. Go for third Jag.

IBT; nada

Turn 3, 3350BC; Worker mine-->road. Jag on mountain, third ivory found. East jag, on hill, possibly ithsmus found.

IBT; nada.

Turn 4, 3300BC; It is a peninsula, so maybe we have a nice defensible position here. Move jags, nothing much, some water in the NW.

IBT; nada

Turn 5, 3250BC; Tenoch jag-->settler. Not much, more scouting. New jag is MP/guard.

IBT; nada

Turn 6, 3200BC; Move worker to road sugar, won't gain us anything but we need a road there. Jags scout.

IBT; nada

Turn 7, 3150BC; not a lot, scouting.

IBT; nada

Turn 8, 3100BC; zzzzzzzz

IBT; nada

Turn 9, 3050BC; zzzzzzzz

IBT; nada

Turn 10, 3000BC; Tenoch settler-->barracks. Move settler east towards cow/fish. Nothing else looks exciting for settler making. Worker to BG. MP jag moves out since i realize we are size 1.

Here is our nice peninsula:

Spoiler:

The nice probable peninsula thing is nice, we can build towards the AI and then backfill, as well as a simplified defensive situation. Downside, no AIs met so far.

I am not sure about the barracks build, we may even want a granary since our SF will take a while I think. We really need that cow and possibly fish if we are going for culture we need ICS.

[CKS]

Well, this is an interesting situation. The cow is awfully far away, and there isn't any water nearby. I don't think I'd have sent the first settler there, but it is hard to make a case for anywhere else. I like 3 W of Tenochtitlan, getting river, BG, and ivory, but it sure doesn't scream "settle here immediately." If we send the nearby jag south, we can divert the settler on the next turn if something better pops up, but that doesn't seem likely given what we can already see.

I'm liking our situation, though extra food would be nice. With the rivers, plains tiles are pretty reasonable. We're agricultural, so we can make use of desert tiles, too, though I hope we don't have too many of them. I hope we meet some neighbors soon.

I'd like to prebuild for SoZ, whether we go space or culture.

Any further space/100K thoughts now?

[Raliuven]

Originally Posted by CKS

Any further space/100K thoughts now?

I must say I like it when we have elephants ranging in our backyard. That's a nice touch.

I don't have much experience with 100K so I don't know if we've got the land for a good run at it?

I'm torn because a good DG SS will mean some nice tech brokering and the possibility of some nice IA & MA combat. However, my limited experience with culture wins (my one GOTM win for 100k was ONLY because no one else went for it on the same game; and I only won in 2050 AD ) makes it very tempting to try it out in C3C.

[darski]

lurker's comment: Oops, I've been following this but forgot to check in

Should be interesting

[creamcheese]

Originally Posted by CKS

Well, this is an interesting situation. The cow is awfully far away, and there isn't any water nearby. I don't think I'd have sent the first settler there, but it is hard to make a case for anywhere else. I like 3 W of Tenochtitlan, getting river, BG, and ivory, but it sure doesn't scream "settle here immediately." If we send the nearby jag south, we can divert the settler on the next turn if something better pops up, but that doesn't seem likely given what we can already see.

I'm liking our situation, though extra food would be nice. With the rivers, plains tiles are pretty reasonable. We're agricultural, so we can make use of desert tiles, too, though I hope we don't have too many of them. I hope we meet some neighbors soon.

I'd like to prebuild for SoZ, whether we go space or culture.

Any further space/100K thoughts now?

Yeah, I was torn on where to take the settler, but water isn't that far it will just take a little time to set up (slightly better than last game I think actually). Agricultural helps for the SF as well once we are a republic and that spot has forest and BGs for shields.

I still prefer space, I never really like cultural victories, you just build stuff and wait to win. With space you have to research, and possibly sabotage enemy spaceships and you get some nice modern age warfare.