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Old Sep 09, 2011, 04:33 AM   #61
agnat86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raystuttgart View Post
There are a few but I started creating them in my Preview.

Examples:
- Bargaining with Natives (implemented in Preview)
- Uprising Natives with Missionaries (only as concept)
...
Cool, you already have a preview version? Can I download it somewhere on this site?
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Old Sep 09, 2011, 04:53 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agnat86 View Post
Cool, you already have a preview version?
Hi agnat86,

this is a misunderstanding.

The preview I am talking about is not a Preview of Religion and Revolution (this new project).

It is a preview of my other old project (RWL) I had started after I left TAC.
I have given up RWL to start this new project together with Robert, because he is a great modder .
(Of course, it would be fantastic if other modders join.)

It was only a Showcase.
I used this Preview to exchange features and ideas with other modders.

The preview still has several small bugs and is still very unbalanced.
Although it is stable, it probably not that much fun to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnat86 View Post
Can I download it somewhere on this site?
Currently I really prefer to not actively share my preview with the whole community.
(I would prefer to share it only with other modders and members of the Religion and Revolution-team to be able to talk to them about some new features.)

Reasons:

A) I would really prefer that people get to know and understand TAC first.
(TAC will be the base of this project.
Of course we will add many of the features that Robert and I already created.
Of course also really great features of other modders, if we are allowed to.)

B) The preview (of my old project) contains several small bugs and is unbalanced.
It was really only meant to be used as base for discussion or to exchange features.
(It might give a wrong expression of this new project.)

C) Also, the best features will be added to the new project Religion and Revolution.
(Robert and I still need to discuss and agree about what he likes and does not like.)

D) I would really like to focus on this new project "Religion and Revolution" and not talk about my old project all the time.
(I know, that I tell a lot "Robert, this is in my preview...!", " but that information currently is meant for Robert or other team-members that will join later on.)

Please understand.

Last edited by raystuttgart; Sep 09, 2011 at 05:52 AM.
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Old Sep 09, 2011, 06:41 AM   #63
raystuttgart
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Hi Robert,

you were wondering about not being able to sell treasures to the king in a city.
Currently in the preview you need a "Harbour" or a higher level of that SpecialBuilding to do so.

The reason for that is to prevent "cheating" with the feature "Abandoning Cities".
Spoiler:

A Scout is one some continent where the human player does not have any cities.
So the human player could simply found a city at the coast and sell the treasure to the king.
The next round he could abandon the city again an re-equip the Scout so he could find more treasures and do the same again and again.
For me that would be cheating and abuse of the feature "Abandoning Cities".
(This is not the intention of that feature !)


But I also experimented with several other things that would allow certain actions of units only depending to certain buildings existing in a city:

Examples:
* Trains can only load or unload units and goods in a city if there is a Trainstation
* Settlers can only take profession Missionary if there is a Church (or higher level of that Specialbuilding)

Things like that are very easy to implement.

Maybe the basic concept behind (Allow actions of units depending on existance of buildings) could be used for other ideas too ?

Last edited by raystuttgart; Sep 09, 2011 at 06:49 AM.
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Old Sep 09, 2011, 06:57 AM   #64
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New Ressources and New Productionlines

I have added many many new ressources.
(Including Professions, Specialists, Bonusses, Buildings, Improvements ...)

Behind most of these there are concepts or larger features !
(They were not added without reason. )

Also I have added other basic features to make good use or allow the integration of the new ressources / productionlines.
(I will tell about some of these while I am going on explaining the ressources.)

Also I have put effort into the aspect of balancing the terrains !
(I have tried to balance all terrains equally concerning the new ressources.)

One Terrain was added: "Light Green Savanna". (Only working title until I find a better name.)
(Some might still know it from original CivCol.)

Spoiler:




First of all a list of these ressources:
Spoiler:

Additional Information:
I tried to organize the lines of yields so that the upper line in the city screen often is the raw yield of the corresponding produced yield in the lower line.

Upper Line:

01) Food
02) Wood
03) Stone
04) Iron Ore
05) Silver
06) Gold
07) Gems
08) Coal
09) Hemp
10) Healing Herbs
11) Precious Wood
12) Cocoafruits
13) Coffeeberries
14) Red Pepper
15) Barley
16) Sugar
17) Winegrapes
18) Cattlehides
19) Fur
20) Premium Fur
21) Sheep Wool
22) Cotton
23) Indigo
24) Tobacco
25) Whale Blubber
26) Luxury Goods from Europe

Lower Line:

27) Horses
28) Tools
29) Weapons
30) Cannons
31) Pearls
32) Walruss Ivory
33) Natural Rubber
34) Salt
35) Ropes and Sailcloth
36) Medicine
37) Expensive Furniture
38) Dried Cocoa
39) Dried Coffe
40) Spices
41) Beer
42) Rum
43) Wine
44) Cheap Leathergoods
45) Coats
46) Luxurious Furcoats
47) Woolclothes
48) Cloth
49) Coloured Cloth
50) Cigarrs
51) (Whale-)Trainoil
52) Trading Goods


Some basic explanations of features and ideas to it:
Spoiler:

More "stategic" Ressources

Stone: Some buildings need stone to be build. Like "Citadel" or some higher levels of the factories.
Coal: Trains need coal to be build. Also by burning coal in a "Furnage" you get production bonusses for tool, weapons and cannons.
Hemp: Needed for production of Ropes and Sailcloth, which again is needed to build ships
Healing Herbs: Needed to produce Medicine, which again is needed to cure injuries and diseases
Cannons: Cannons are produced like Guns and needed to produce military ships and cannon-units.

Common, rare and extremely rare ressources

Common Ressources available on their specific terrain. Bonusses increase the output.
Rare Ressources only available on the specific bonusses (which of course exist only on certain terrains).
Extremely Rare Ressources also available only on the specific bonusses but are found only few times.

Common: Cotton, Tobacco, Sugar, Fur ...
Rare: Indigo, Pepper, Cocoa, Premium Fur ...
Extremely Rare: Pearls, Gold, Silver, Gems, ...

Base features

Multiple Professions Per Building (a feature from Androrc I included):

In several buildings it is now possible to have more than one profession !

Examples:
Gun-Smiths and Cannon-Smiths share the same building.
Weavers and Dyers share the same building.
Cocoa-Driers and Coffee-Dries share the same building.
...

Multiple Yields Produced / Consumed (a feature from Kailric):

Examples:

Shepherds produce both Food and Sheepwool.
Cowboys produce both Food and Cattlehides.
Hunters produce both Food and Fur.
...

Dries need both Indigo and Cloth to produce Coloured Cloth.

Inland Sales and Social Levels of Colonists:

Cities in the cities are customers too !
Depending on their social level they are asking for different goods.
(Excamples: Statesmen have high social level, Cigarmakers have middle social level, Farmers or Lumberjacks have low social level.)

Within the buildings Market and Trading Center Shopkeepers sell goods to the citizens of the cities.
Within the building Tavern Tavernkeepers sell alcohol (Beer, Rum, Wine) to the citizens.

This will bring money build also increases satisfaction in the cities.

The Inland Sales are rather small and depend on the number of citizens in that city!
(You will still need to sell most of your goods in Europe.)

Not all goods can be sold in your own colonies !
(Mostly only certain produced goods. With some exceptions like Salt or Luxury Goods from Europe.)

Rich people also demand for Luxury goods from Europe, which you cannot produce yourself.


There is a little more to it, but that should give you a first idea.
(A lot of that is not completely implemented by now but I have spent a huge amount of time on that. )

Especially KJ_Jansson and melcher kürzer gave me a lot of help concerning graphics !
Some buildings are taken from other mods. Especially from Kailrics work I reused a lot.

Feedback ?

Last edited by raystuttgart; Sep 10, 2011 at 01:37 AM.
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Old Sep 09, 2011, 11:00 AM   #65
Robert Surcouf
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Originally Posted by raystuttgart View Post
Hi Robert,


* Trains can only load or unload units and goods in a city if there is a Trainstation
* Settlers can only take profession Missionary if there is a Church (or higher level of that Specialbuilding)

Things like that are very easy to implement.

Maybe the basic concept behind (Allow actions of units depending on existance of buildings) could be used for other ideas too ?
Yes, I like this idea. In Col94, I think that you also needed a minimum population if you wanted to build a building... Quite interesting !

I never thought of the treasure/abandoning colony bug! Maybe that's why M07 and Dazio thought of their builder wagon... I don't know how to solve that problem.
I see three options:
1) A building is required
2) Building a colony costs something (either money, or resources, wood?, tools?)
3) Only units with a specific profession could found a colony (pioneers?)

I really don't know which is best... What do you think?
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Old Sep 09, 2011, 11:15 AM   #66
agnat86
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I see lots of awesome stuff! Does every resource also have a profession associated with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Surcouf View Post
Yes, I like this idea. In Col94, I think that you also needed a minimum population if you wanted to build a building... Quite interesting !

I never thought of the treasure/abandoning colony bug! Maybe that's why M07 and Dazio thought of their builder wagon... I don't know how to solve that problem.
I see three options:
1) A building is required
2) Building a colony costs something (either money, or resources, wood?, tools?)
3) Only units with a specific profession could found a colony (pioneers?)

I really don't know which is best... What do you think?
Maybe you can also have the king send a galleon to pick it up. Didn't he do that as well in Col94? That way, the colony will have to exist all the time until the galleon arrives.

Or maybe you could only sell treasures in a colony if you have a dock.
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Old Sep 09, 2011, 11:15 AM   #67
raystuttgart
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Originally Posted by Robert Surcouf View Post
I really don't know which is best... What do you think?
Actually I like the implementation I already did. (You can test it in the preview.)

If you want to sell a treasure to the king you need to have a harbour / or dock first.
(So it is 1) A building is required.)

Reasons:

1. It is already finished and it works.
I implemented it to work with AI too !

2. It does not introduce other complex features nobody likes and AI can not handle properly.
I would really not like to spend to much time building some extremely complex thing that people will not like in the end.

Last edited by raystuttgart; Sep 09, 2011 at 11:27 AM.
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Old Sep 09, 2011, 11:18 AM   #68
raystuttgart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agnat86 View Post
I see lots of awesome stuff!
Thanks.
(I have really spent a lot of time and effort on that stuff.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnat86 View Post
Does every resource also have a profession associated with it?
Yes of course.
(And also Specialists.)

There are many new Yields, Professions, Specialists, Buildings, Bonusses, Improvements, ...
(At least this part is already completely done ! Logic of many features still has to be done or finished up.)

I just need to know if Robert likes all that stuff and wants to have it in the new project.

Last edited by raystuttgart; Sep 09, 2011 at 11:36 AM.
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Old Sep 09, 2011, 12:51 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raystuttgart View Post
New Ressources and New Productionlines

I have added many many new ressources.
(Including Professions, Specialists, Bonusses, Buildings, Improvements ...)

Behind most of these there are concepts or larger features !
(They were not added without reason. )

One Terrain was added: "Light Green Savanna". (Only working title until I find a better name.)
(Some might still know it from original CivCol.)



Quote:
Originally Posted by raystuttgart View Post
Inland Sales and Social Levels of Colonists:

Cities in the cities are customers too !
Depending on their social level they are asking for different goods.
(Excamples: Statesmen have high social level, Cigarmakers have middle social level, Farmers or Lumberjacks have low social level.)

Within the buildings Market and Trading Center Shopkeepers sell goods to the citizens of the cities.
Within the building Tavern Tavernkeepers sell alcohol (Beer, Rum, Wine) to the citizens.

This will bring money build also increases satisfaction in the cities.

The Inland Sales are rather small and depend on the number of citizens in that city!
(You will still need to sell most of your goods in Europe.)

Not all goods can be sold in your own colonies !
(Mostly only certain produced goods. With some exceptions like Salt or Luxury Goods from Europe.)

Rich people also demand for Luxury goods from Europe, which you cannot produce yourself.
[/SPOILER]

There is a little more to it, but that should give you a first idea.
(A lot of that is not completely implemented by now but I have spent a huge amount of time on that. )

Especially KJ_Jansson and melcher kürzer gave me a lot of help concerning graphics !
Some buildings are taken from other mods. Especially from Kailrics work I reused a lot.

Feedback ?
Yes, I really like it. Yet, are you sure every resource also have a profession associated with it ? I haven't seen any profession for trade goods... Am I wrong?
I would like to be able to produce trade goods!
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Old Sep 09, 2011, 01:40 PM   #70
raystuttgart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Surcouf View Post

Yes, I really like it.
That is fantastic news for me !

I really hoped you would like that part of my work.
(I have put a lot of time and effort in it ...)

Of course there are still a lot of things to do.
(In the Preview I only wanted to show the basic ideas.)

But I am very willing to do so.
(The only important information for me right now was, that you generally agree with the ideas. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Surcouf View Post
Yet, are you sure every resource also have a profession associated with it ?
I was talking only about the new ressources I added.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Surcouf View Post
I haven't seen any profession for trade goods... Am I wrong?
I would like to be able to produce trade goods!
I am really not sure about that ...

Trade Goods are very cheap and they only make sense when you sell them to Natives.
But even that I never do much because with other goods like rum, weapons, ... there is much more profit to be made.

Do you really think a production line for trade goods is useful ?
(There is a lot of work involved and also the building for production would use another space in city screen.)

Or are you talking about "Luxury Goods from Europe" ?
(They are also only sold.)

Last edited by raystuttgart; Sep 09, 2011 at 03:08 PM.
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Old Sep 09, 2011, 05:36 PM   #71
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New Resources

Wow, the list of new resources looks amazing! This is certainly going to add a new dimension to the game and get players to seriously think about what they want to focus on producing, rather than most colonies producing the same generic goods, which gets a little dull after a while. Great work!
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 12:33 AM   #72
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Hi everyone,
Quote:
Originally Posted by raystuttgart View Post
That is fantastic news for me !
I am really not sure about that ...

Trade Goods are very cheap and they only make sense when you sell them to Natives.
But even that I never do much because with other goods like rum, weapons, ... there is much more profit to be made.

Do you really think a production line for trade goods is useful ?
(There is a lot of work involved and also the building for production would use another space in city screen.)

Or are you talking about "Luxury Goods from Europe" ?
(They are also only sold.)
There's been a misunderstanding. I wasn't thinking of a production line for trade goods. I mean not necessarily... I was rather thinking of something else. In some buildings (maybe one, maybe more than one, I don't know) you would have some extra trade goods.

A while ago, I started programing something , and you could produce trade goods in a market...(so it was a production line, in my case). The trade good production would depend on population, number of buildings in your colony etc... (even happiness if we add your happiness feature?) [I didn't program that part fully though...]

If I follow you, you're skeptical because:
1) You've already thought of many resources
2) Trade goods are cheap
3) There's profit to make with other resources.

Although producing trade goods is not very important to me, I must say:
1) We can still add a resource and remove another. We still have to discuss the details, right?
2) We can change prices (I'm not totally satisfied with every price)
3) Your profit depends on the building output ! It is just a balancing problem ! If we put a +1000% production bonus, it will be the most profitable resource

But, it is just an idea. If you don't like it, it doesn't matter. There are plenty of resources to have fun. When I played the original game (Col94), I wanted to produce Trade Goods !
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 01:40 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colonialfan View Post
Wow, the list of new resources looks amazing! This is certainly going to add a new dimension to the game and get players to seriously think about what they want to focus on producing, rather than most colonies producing the same generic goods, which gets a little dull after a while.
That is exactly why I added it.
But also of course because it is the base of other new features and ideas.
(Like "Inland Sales with different Social Level", ...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by colonialfan View Post
Great work!
Thanks.
(I had a lot of help from other modders concerning graphics.)
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 01:50 AM   #74
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Quote:
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1) We can still add a resource and remove another. We still have to discuss the details, right?
Yes of course, we can discuss details and do changes.
(We could also add even more ressources ... )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Surcouf View Post
2) We can change prices (I'm not totally satisfied with every price)
Sure, I am not totally satisfied with prices either and have already done some small changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Surcouf View Post
3) Your profit depends on the building output ! It is just a balancing problem ! If we put a +1000% production bonus, it will be the most profitable resource
Don't know about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Surcouf View Post
When I played the original game (Col94), I wanted to produce Trade Goods !
But again, the problem with Trade Goods are the following:

They are very cheap and I believe they should stay cheap.
They have very limited reason, which is selling to Natives if you do not have anything better to sell.
Producing Trade Goods in the own colonies feels strange to me.

I would prefer leaving Trade Goods like they are.
(Cheaply bought in Europe, sold to Natives if you do not have anything better to sell them.)

But of course we can change the list of ressources !
(We could remove or add even a few more. We simply need to discuss it.)

But I have put quite some effort to have them balanced.
(With terrains and the features I am thinking about ...)

Last edited by raystuttgart; Sep 10, 2011 at 02:23 AM.
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 05:06 AM   #75
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Hi guys, some screens to the "New Bargaining with Natives"

I tried to rebuild like it was in Original CivCol. Only a little better.
(Of course there are still some improvements that could be done ...)

Selling:
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Last edited by raystuttgart; Sep 10, 2011 at 05:17 AM.
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 05:08 AM   #76
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Buying:
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 05:10 AM   #77
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What happens if you over-exagerate with bargaining:
(You cannot bargain in that city for a random amount of rounds and they are temporarily a little angry.)
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 09:52 AM   #78
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A feature that needs to be implemented is Indian Raiding. This isnt in TAC is it? Havent seen it yet. It is a great feature which should be implemented. Indian raid your settlements and steal some goods like muskets, food or horses. One of the great features of Col94 if u ask me.
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 11:23 AM   #79
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There is a random event in TAC where natives will raid your village and steal horses. As a player, you have several choices to react, ranging from war to improved relations with your native neighbours.
Of course that feature could be expanded, it's quite easy to include such events if someone wants to do it. I even made the helptexts etc. generic, so similar events for guns, rum or whatever could be created within a few minutes by creating the XML event entries and copying & modifying the "runaway" python event scripts.
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Old Sep 10, 2011, 02:36 PM   #80
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I agree with you Gomer Pyle ! I loved Indian Raids in the original game !
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