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Old Dec 06, 2011, 09:02 PM   #1
Rundown
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Usefulness of Police Station and Courthouses

How useful are police stations and courthouses?

As I start to play at the higher levels my cities are much more corrupt and less productive, especially when I conquer land far away from my capital. Will police stations and courthouses have any advantage to me at all or I should I do something else instead? Are they even worth it? Is there any another way to deal with corruption better?
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Old Dec 06, 2011, 09:48 PM   #2
Spoonwood
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In a histographic game, police stations and courthouses prove very useful. They increase the effectiveness of the luxury slider, which means you can have more happy citizens for a higher score.

In most other games it depends on the location and desired victory condition if you would profit from building them.
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Old Dec 06, 2011, 10:32 PM   #3
AutomatedTeller
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A size 12 city will get about 26 commerce under republic and democracy, maybe more if there are specials or rivers.

With rails, a size 12 on grasslands can support 6 scientists, for 19 science at 100% (18 for the scientists, 1 for the uncorruptable commerce), even at total corruption.

With a library and uni, the city would need to get 10 uncorrupted commerce to beat that, which is 60% corruption. So, if you can get better than 60% corruption, you will have better science output with lib/uni than with making a specialist farm, though not a lot better.

Taking into account hammers for court/police station/lib/uni, plus probably a market... you are generally better off just making something that corrupt a science farm. And, really, if you are more 40% corrupt or so, you should just make it a science farm (that is, 40% after the police station)
Civ Assist can help you figure out what corruption the city will have with court and PS.
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 05:21 AM   #4
Spoonwood
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I think you mean "shields" instead of "hammers" AT.
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 11:00 AM   #5
Fiddlin Nero
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In PTW I see no improvement from Police Stations, Courthouses are useful for improving those towns close to the core into real producers. What should I be looking for with Police Stations?
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 11:35 AM   #6
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dammit. Shields, yes. Stupid C-IV terminology.

I don't know PTW that well, I'll admit. My experience is more with conquests.
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 11:26 AM   #7
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I personally never bother with Police Stations and if I conquer a city with one then I might sell it or I might not depending on my mood.

I think the primary function of the Police Station is as part of the Communist government style. If one has a Communist government and a Police Station in every city then this will impact better than a Republic or Monarchy or Democracy with a Police Station in every city.

Police Stations for non-Communist government types are also designed to help reduce War-Weariness, but the effect is so minute it's barely worth it.

In terms of helping to reduce Corruption for non-Communist government types I'm not sure that anyone's ever really got excited about their effect enough to make them a promotable option for the following reasons:

1. If your empire is so in need of 3 or 4 extra beakers from a handful of distant corrupt towns then it's unlikely you would have got to the stage of conquering them in the first place.
2. If your distant corrupt town can produce more than one shield per turn then, surely, there are better buildings/units it could be producing in the time it takes to build the Police Station. And, if you're rush-building Police Stations then surely there must be a better use of money than using all your cash to generate an extra 20 or so Beakers.
3. Police Stations are on a dead tech tree and will rarely be a priority discovery.
4. They come quite late in the game and, as so many here are obsessed with boasting, many games don't even last far enough into the Industrial age for them to be part of a long-term strategy.
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 11:44 AM   #8
shl7070
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I never build police stations because I rarely have communism. Industrial age research is too costly to waste my turns on it. Courts I build extensively to increase my shields in 30-75% corrupt cities. Many times I build/rush court in the city that's going to build forbidden palace or crucial wonder that can't be built in a true core city.
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 05:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
In terms of helping to reduce Corruption for non-Communist government types I'm not sure that anyone's ever really got excited about their effect enough to make them a promotable option for the following reasons
I've already indicated this as incorrect in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoonwood
In a histographic game, police stations and courthouses prove very useful. They increase the effectiveness of the luxury slider, which means you can have more happy citizens for a higher score.
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 08:30 PM   #10
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What a shame your point has nothing to do with the question posed by the OP. He is asking the about the worth of Police Stations in reducing corruption not how to score more points in a Histriographic game. And in terms of me being 'incorrect' I did state "Police Stations for non-Communist government types are also designed to help reduce War-Weariness, but the effect is so minute it's barely worth it." which is the quote of mine which relates to your post, not the quote you threw up onto the screen. Keep up that desperate campaign to harass and harangue every post I make, it just makes you look dumber and dumberer.
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Old Dec 09, 2011, 09:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
What a shame your point has nothing to do with the question posed by the OP.
Nope. He has 4 questions there. My post did have something to do with some of them. He even says
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rundown
Will police stations and courthouses have any advantage to me at all or I should I do something else instead?
In other words, he asks "does some advantage exist to courthouses/police stations?" Well some advantage does exist.

On top of all this, the worth of police stations/courthouses in a histographic game DOES lie in reducing corruption, because of the effect that reduced corruption can have. You reduce corruption, and consequently, you have more uncorrupted commerce available for the luxury slider for more happiness (or buying desired buildings like markets and hospitals). Courthouses and police stations do NOT affect happiness directly. They only affect corruption (and war weariness) directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Keep up that desperate campaign to harass and harangue every post I make, it just makes you look dumber and dumberer.
Whatever I do actually do with respect to you, and whatever I intend to do, in another thread these quotes appeared:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar_X
how come nobody showed any reaction to Buttercups extremely rude behaviour? ok, i will.

@ Buttercup - even if you do not agree with Spoonwood´s comments, why do you believe it would be necessary, or even acceptable, to use vulgar words on him?

he later proved that he was right, but this is not the point. he had tried to help you with his advice and even played that turns for you, and for sure he deserved your respect for that, even if you should be unable to understand the specific techniques he used due to the missing playing skills. apparently your question originally held that you tried to improve those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucephalus
Jeez, this forum seems frozen in time: it's been a year since I last looked in, and the first thing I see is Spoonwood still being disrespected by people not fit to lace his boots.

His forbearance is remarkable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
Ohhhhhh... do feck off.
I'd say a public apologize is necessary.
Unless, of course, you're just a troll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aabraxan
Originally Posted by Bucephalus View Post
. . . .His forbearance is remarkable.
As is his willingness to continue to try to help, in spite of the disrespect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucephalus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post

Bucephalus:

This suggests far more than I ever could. Thanks for reminding us that it is habit/problem rather than an exception
No, it's more a reflection of the kind of poisonous little trolls which this forum sometimes attracts: weasly little nobodies, who hide safely behind their monitors while they spew out vitriolic insults to their betters.

Before you dismiss what Spoonwood has to say, I suggest you take a look at the HOF tables; he is one of the finest players ever to play this game, and if you had an ounce of humility, you would show some gratitude that he had the good grace to share his hard-earned knowledge with someone as ill-mannered and disrespectful as you.
So, it comes as clear as the noonday Sun via the evidence, that I simply have NOT looked "dumber and dumberer" to the audience. Note, this just consists of the people that have spoken up. In fact, if anything has happened, the opposite has occurred, as the evidence indicates.

Get a clue Buttercup. Hardly anyone... if anyone... around here thinks you know all that much about the game, and you almost surely haven't earned the respect of anyone around here in any way. In truth, people have called you "troll", and unless you start providing evidence to the contrary, that seems extremely likely.
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 01:57 AM   #12
Lanzelot
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I speak up as well:
Rundown has asked about the usefulness of courts and police stations, and Spoonwood provided one example of a usecase where they are indeed useful (maximizing score in a histographic high-score victory). You made the (more or less wrong) statement that they are never useful, and Spoonwood corrected that. Don't know why you have a problem with that?!
I have the same opinion as Spoonwood here: there are rare cases where they are useful, though admittedly most of the time they are not (simply because they come so late that they will never amortize the heavy gold/shield investment).

(Edit: talking about Police Stations of course. Courthouses are a different matter as they come very early. In long lasting games (mainly science) I build lots of them, basically every 2nd ring town gets one asap, some of the corrupt 1st ring and some of the not too corrupt 3rd ring towns as well. If I build them in the AA/ early MA, they will have payed off big time by the time the spaceship launches.)
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 04:19 AM   #13
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I generally agree with most posts made about the usefulness of these buildings.

Courthouses, if build fairly early on and only in the inner rings of cities, can net you quite a lot of shields/commerce in the long run. In any outer ring cities they are not worth the investment. Just make some farms.

Police stations might be worth the cost if they were the same cost to build and maintain as a courthouse, and if they were a non-optional tech (which they are not). That said, if building one puts you over some "magic" number of shields (like 2 turn tanks or something), they are probably worth rushing.
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 10:35 AM   #14
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Lanzelot...

Quote:
You made the (more or less wrong) statement that they are never useful, and Spoonwood corrected that. Don't know why you have a problem with that?!
Nope. I said I never bother with them. And I can assure you that's not a wrong statement.

I stated quite clearly what the objectives of Police Stations are and why "I'm not sure that anyone's ever really got excited about their effect" which is a heck of a long way from the concept of 'never'.

Spoonwood couldn't understand a post if it was written in kindergarten english in size 30 bold font.

Are you trying to bate me Lanzelot?

You said: "admittedly most of the time they are not (simply because they come so late that they will never amortize the heavy gold/shield investment)."

Which is another way of saying what I said: "They come quite late in the game and, as so many here are obsessed with boasting, many games don't even last far enough into the Industrial age for them to be part of a long-term strategy."

And yet you fully object to my post.

Are you 'having a laugh'...


Re: the OP - it's fecking obvious he's only talking about corruption, only a complete moron would interpret it any other way...

S'cuse my French.
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 11:32 AM   #15
tR1cKy
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Buttercup, i really can't figure out if you are a particularly stubborn troll or if you're just incredibly feeble-minded (and i'm using an euphemism, the proper word would be at risk of censorship).

Anyway...

as Sponwood says, it mostly depends on what sort of game you're playing. For a fast military win, courthouses are next to useless and police stations aren't even reached. For games that last long enough, courthouses may be quite useful. I have some doubts about police stations, because of their support cost, but i suppose that in a histographic game they're still worth building.
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 11:42 AM   #16
Elephantium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shl7070 View Post
I never build police stations because I rarely have communism. Industrial age research is too costly to waste my turns on it. Courts I build extensively to increase my shields in 30-75% corrupt cities. Many times I build/rush court in the city that's going to build forbidden palace or crucial wonder that can't be built in a true core city.
Well, that's no problem. Just make sure there are a couple of AI tribes in the IA with you, and they'll research it for you!
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 12:58 PM   #17
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Oh look, here comes tR1cKy to feck up another thread.

Please, tR1cKy, show me the sentence where I say spoonwood's scenario was 'incorrect'.
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 01:35 PM   #18
tR1cKy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
Oh look, here comes tR1cKy to feck up another thread.
There's an old saying in my country, that translated in English "as is" would probably be meaningless. A saying that would preserve its meaning would be something like "here's a skunk complaining about stink".

Quote:
Please, tR1cKy, show me the sentence where I say spoonwood's scenario was 'incorrect'.
This request by yours presumes that here i would have charged you to have said such a thing. If i did, then it would be appropriate. But since i didn't, your demand makes no sense at all. As pretty much everything else i've seen you posting in this forum so far.
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 01:41 PM   #19
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In that case, sweety, why are you insulting me if you have no disagreement with me?
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Old Dec 10, 2011, 01:57 PM   #20
tR1cKy
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Alas, i've realized a little bit too late that by replying to the troll above i'm just basically feeding the troll itself. I'll stop immediately. Sorry to the OP for the inconvenience. Over and out.
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