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Old Dec 26, 2011, 12:50 PM   #161
Spoonwood
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360 AD-I had usually stacked my workers along rails before railroading new tiles. However, I've had problems getting an estimate on how many workers have left in a turn. So, I've decided to stop making very large stacks before railing. I get an MGL from a 4/5 elite at Tureng Tepe, and soon capture it. I also get another MGL while assaulting Sardis, and proceed to capture it. I put two workers in it, sell off its buildings and replant a city near it, so that I now have my own source of saltpeter. I capture Hamadan. I capture Borazjan. I capture Tyre. I capture Antioch.

I've decided to go with Moonsinger's nomenclature, at least for a bit in some spots. I found a city called "South Bactra", which buys a worker-galleon. I use muskets to capture free-floating Persian workers. I also plant a city south of Antioch which cash rushes a worker-galleon. I run short on settlers, so I buy some, even though my cash might come as better spent on units. Mapstat tells me I'll have 981 (before flips) tiles before the end of this turn. I prepare to take Merv next turn.

I turn on "animate battles", but during my turns my preferences look like this:

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Old Dec 26, 2011, 03:10 PM   #162
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370-Nora flips to the Persians. My score rises to 3378. After thinking about things for a while and noticing that the Ottomans just have a bunch of spears running around in Germany territory, I contact Osman. He doesn't even have Chemistry yet (he's on my home continent)! There exist a few problems with attacking Sumeria at present.

1. They have a fair number of units in my territory at present including muskets and calvary on hills and mountains.

2. They're right next to Korea. So, if I ally Korea into the war against them, Korea would probably revolt to Monarchy, and there goes some of my cash flow quickly enough.

3. I can probably take the last three Persian towns this turn, but that'll leave me with a half-baked army which can either sit around and twiddle their thumbs, or go and attack somewhere else. But, this isn't enough to take on Sumeria, and I don't want to sit around thumb twiddling.

So, I decide that I'll attack Germany. Unfortunately, I have three explorers in their territory at present. One on their iron hill as planned. Another I wanted to go up and reach Osman's territory, but it got blocked my Osman's light stacks. Another I had wanted to go up and reach the Iroquois, but it won't make it. I had planned to use iron to get Germany to declare on me, but this had a few hang-ups:

1. I have no cities right next to the iron hill, and I can't plant a city 1 square adjacent to the iron hill without disbanding some other city.

2. I'd have to re-capture Nora first, which would increase what I have to pay for luxuries again this turn (I guess that's not such a big deal).

The other options seems to gift Germany two cities for a luxury source. I finally decide on planting a city on the iron hill. I don't think I have enough cash to keep on doing the disconnect-reconnect, while getting out settlers and armies. So, I first re-capture Nora. I mess up the first settler's movement, as Sumeria has blocked off some of my rail network and yell an expletive. I then plant "Iron Source" gift it to Germany, and re-negotiate the peace treaty. I disconnect, and they declare.

I capture Merv from Persia. The I capture Bampur. I then almost capture Istakhr, followed by shelling of German units and railing, so I can get there this turn. I spawn another MGL. I end up railroading a mountain, which usually doesn't make for a good choice, but it does allow me to capture Istakhr. Oftentimes when I spawn an MGL, I'll load up calvary which haven't moved that turn into the army so that army can potentially attack a city. But, on a turn like this, where I basically need to concentrate on clearing out units, I'll tend to more load in calvaries that have attacked on this turn, but aren't too wounded, to increase the number of attacks I make in a turn. On this sort of turn I might also have a 3/4 calvary attack, while I won't do this on other turns. If I have one unit left to kill on some 2+ movement square (hill, mountain, marsh, jungle, etc.), I'll try to attack it with a veteran or elite calvary instead of an army.

Whoops, and I accidently form a 4 calvary army. I guess he can stay home and protect our continent forever. I ended up leaving 2 armies in Herat, as I forgot that it might flip. Well, I hope doesn't!

380 AD-Arbela flips. Tyre also flips. Two resistors get quelled in Herat, so no big loss there! Cheju completes Newton's. Score up to 3444.
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Old Dec 26, 2011, 10:10 PM   #163
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380 CE-The stack of German units which parked on a mountain outside of my territory moved to another mountain. So, I'll leave it alone and let the Sumerians attack it, while I go after German cities. Checking with my gpt Korea has over 200 gpt available. I had been acquiring silks from them a while back, and gotten their gpt that way. By since I captured Tureng Tepe which lies on top of silks (not good for a city that can flip), I no longer have any luxuries or resources coming from them. I should have checked if they still had luxuries available on the first pillage, and the F4 screen tells me they have some sort of trade going on with Greece, so Wang might no longer have extra silks. So, I first make all other trades I would have made anyways. Then I make my second pillage as usual. Before reconnecting the road I look at Korea in the F4 screen:



Now I have basically two options to get the money, while getting back my own supply of silks. I can either disband Tureng Tepe and found a colony for the silks (after I've made the deals with Korea), since they're in a tundra area, or I can disband Tureng Tepe, and put 2 workers into Tureng Tepe, disband it, found a city nearby, and reconnect the silks (after the deals with Korea). I also need 2 more workers for my capital this turn. I choose the later option.

I recapture Arbela, as well as Tyre, where I spawn another MGL. I get another MGL killing off German units near Herat. These armies get loaded onto the galleons and go off to the nearest Persian island. I capture New Cologne, then New Bremen, then New Bonn, New Hannover, and New Nuremburg. I fortify a bunch of muskets and calvary in my new acquisitions, not for defense, but since cities don't flip on the first turn, to quell resistance.

390 CE-Score to 3517. I control 1095 tiles. Greece has Nationalism alone. Gilgy blocks me some more:



Korea has some gpt, which I could get for free by pillaging my silks. But, since I acquire Nationalism from Greece:

, and it seems likely that Korea has researched Nationalism these past few turns, I'll sell it to them. I capture Kandahar of the Persians. Of Germany, I capture Munich, Cologne, New Koningsberg, Nuremburg, Leipzig...

I notice something strange while moving around with workers. The balls of workers can come as green or yellow depending if you've moved it or not. That I don't find strange. But, not all workers stand the same height. This suggests that even though workers aren't attack or defense units, workers can have veteran or regular status. I guess one could check this out by checking a mod where workers upgrade to a unit with attack and defense.

I also capture New Hamburg, Hamburg, Berlin, and Hamburg which lies to the iron source that I pillaged before this war started. Germany had gotten two workers onto that iron hill. To dissuade Sumeria from doing anything else stupid with my rail network, I've started some blocking off it with cannons. I also capture Hannover. By the end of the turn my tile count has risen to 1234, and after upgrading 25 of my muskets to rifles and captured artillery type units, buying a galleon to take care of an odd German city: , as well as buying some settlers in cities with unhappy citizens, I have only 1290 gold left in my bank. I have 100 calvary and 18 armies.

400 CE-No flips occur. Score of 3598.
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Old Dec 26, 2011, 10:16 PM   #164
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This one looks like it is going well, good luck Spoonwood.
Thanks to you for the wishes, and to all the others out there wishing me luck!
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 02:08 PM   #165
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400 AD continued-After doing the deals, I load armies onto galleons. One lands on the island of New Salzburg, and I see the Iroquois have put a pike and a medieval infantry here. Another after ship chaining unloads in Kandahar. I capture Bunyan from the Persians, and prepare to assault New Bactra.

On the other front, Persia has again messed up my rail network in a spot, but I just rail around it. I found a city specifically so that I can capture New Stuttgart this turn, and proceed to do so:



Now, as a sort of trivia question, what's the best option there to not lose a full movement turn for the new army and not tie up workers working the forest?

I also capture New Berlin, Salzburg:



New Heidelburg, New Munich, Frankfurt, Heidelburg (which I think is spelled wrong per Lanzelot), New Frankfurt, Bonn, Dortmund, and Stuttgart.

I see an Ottoman stack almost begging for target practice:



The Ottomans have a city (Karabuk in post 139 of this thread) which has several ivory sources nearby, none of which look hooked. The Iroquois also have a lone ivory source, but I think it'll take longer to get to. So, my next war will come against the Ottomans, even though the Iroquois come as a little ahead of them in technology. I checked when I disconnected my capital this turn, and Osman has 0 saltpeter and 0 silks. Since I have single silks source, as mentioned above, I'll gift him my silks city to get him to declare on me either next turn or the turn after that.

After upgrading captured artillery units and all but 4 of my muskets. I have 919 gold in the bank, before buying anymore settlers. I decided against buying more settlers at the moment, so hopefully I can get more gpt from Greece in 3 turns when some deals expire. I do have some of my outer semi-core cities, which had experienced some happiness problems putting out settlers now. My rifle count has reached 48 rifles. That seems like far too many to me, but then I check MapStat and see that Greece has 47 cities! Even with 3 of those cities on islands, and taking into account spots where combat settlers might come as useless, that might even come as too low, or just about right once I factor in defensive units I might need to defend cities from Greek attackers. The worst part about this map, comes as the potential power of Greece. Of course, I've probably gotten a little ahead of myself here, but though Greece supplies me with spices right now, I've noticed that Babylon has an extra source they're exporting to the Iroquois (the blue line in the trade advisor screen tells me this, since they have no other active deals with anyone else). So, if they don't export spices to anyone else before I attack Greece, I'll maintain control of a spice supply when I attack them. Checking the military advisor I rate "average" to Greece.

At the beginning of this turn I controlled 1234 tiles, which MapStat told me came as 18.0% of the domination limit. By the end, MapStat tells me I have 1395 tiles, 20.4% of the domination limit. I don't know how this will change when cities flip and how that affects score exactly. Keeping in mind that most of Sumeria, the Iroquois, Germany, the Ottomans, and Korea lie on my home continent this should give you an idea of how much of the territory will harness the effects of the Pyramids and Bach's:

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Old Dec 27, 2011, 02:45 PM   #166
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Now, as a sort of trivia question, what's the best option there to not lose a full movement turn for the new army and not tie up workers working the forest?
Use the 3 move leader to get to North New Salzburg, then form the army. Units can then get railed in and join the army and move out right away.
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 04:31 PM   #167
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Use the 3 move leader to get to North New Salzburg, then form the army. Units can then get railed in and join the army and move out right away.
You're close, but I think you missed a detail there... or at least you haven't made it clear... at least if you lose a movement point on the army by having a leader move a full turn, which I haven't checked.
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 05:42 PM   #168
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You're close, but I think you missed a detail there... or at least you haven't made it clear... at least if you lose a movement point on the army by having a leader move a full turn, which I haven't checked.
I don't think the leader's movement affects the resulting army's movement, but I am not sure of that I guess.

Do you mean you should rail one more tile south of the city so it is only 2/3rds move to get to rails?
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 06:12 PM   #169
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I don't think the leader's movement affects the resulting army's movement, but I am not sure of that I guess.

Do you mean you should rail one more tile south of the city so it is only 2/3rds move to get to rails?
Yes. That's what I did at least. Though, the other way might work, I'm not sure it doesn't.
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 06:33 PM   #170
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I can confirm that the leader's movement does not affect the movement of the resulting army. I booted up the Napoleonic Europe Conquest as France and I moved Napoleon south until he had 1/3 move, then built an army, put in a musket, and I had 2/2 move.

So you built a railroad you didn't need immediately. Although you would probably hook up the city eventually, so it's not much of an issue.
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 10:30 PM   #171
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410 AD-Bactra and Kandahar flip. Score to 3689, 1374 tiles. First I gift Ottomans the silks city. Then I position some units in their territory, as I see I still have an RoP going with them. Next I ring up Osman and do the silks deal. The silks city ends up auto-razing. So, I end up disbanding East Bampur, and putting a new city near there. I recapture Kandahar, as well as Bactra from the Persians. I send another army over to the Persian/German island via ship chaining. I capture New Bactra from the Persians. I land four workers on an iron source.

From the Ottomans I capture Bolu. I decide I'll attack some wounded spears with rifles, but first a 3/5 calvary spawns another MGL. I capture Karabuk. I put two workers on a plains square near there to speed up my acquisition of ivory. I want more armies, but I feel as if I should get out more veteran calvary. I start thinking about cash-rushing an army every other turn, and doing some horse-calvaries. I also acquire Koningsberg from the Ottomans.

From the Germans I capture New Salzburg. For some strange reason I feel nervous about the Iroquois pike next to it, so I leave the army there. I capture New Leipzig. I use a 9/12 army to attack two 1/3 or 1/4 spears on a mountain near Koningsberg, just to dissuade the Ottomans stack from landing there. I capture Brandenburg. The Ottomans do have a lot of units, though mostly backward. I lose 5 rifles, I think with some 30+ wins. On the positive side, I feel comfortable dropping the luxury slider to 70%. I do buy settlers this turn, but no armies or units, and I'll employ some disconnect-reconnect here for more units faster, I might buy an army also then. I have 1468 tiles by the end of the turn.

420 AD-Tyre flips to the Persians. Sumeria blocks my rail network yet again. New Hamburg flips to the Germans. Score to 3783, controlling some 1443 tiles at the start of the turn. For anyone reading, it might come as interesting to compare my score increases over the past few turns with the other Sid games. I noticed the other turn Babylon had extra horses. Somehow, I only have one source. Babylon has 54 gpt available. So I don't cheapen ToG or Magnetism with anyone else, I actually decide to disconnect my horses. Oh drat, I actually have 3 horse sources. If you have your capital disconnected, it'll only say your cities have 1 horse source, even though you may have more. I won't disconnect that much. I have two 200+ gpt deals with Greece expiring in a turn, so even though I will upgrade horses to calvary and have bought settlers, I decline on buying an army this turn hoping I'll get a large chunk of that gpt back.

I do load another army to go over to the nearest Persian island. That army by itself takes out 4 immortals. I capture New Tyre of the Persians, and head towards New Sardis of the Germans. I load the army at New Salzburg back into the galleon. This city is in the wrong spot, I can't put rifles into it this turn sits at size three, and has an Iroquois pike fortified next to it. I just disband it. I recapture New Hamburg from the Germans, and then Tyre from the Persians.

The Ottomans unhappily pillaged out some German territory a while ago:



They had also pillaged my territory there last turn. I think it worth it take out that spear stack from the 9 spot easily enough this turn to keep that road in place, even though movement wise this isn't all that great. Even though I have to railroad a mountain to get my settlers on my rail network due to Sumeria, I decide it worth it:



Here's another good screenshot:



At mid-turn, and I think I've used all my settlers now I have 1524 tiles, 22.3% of my domination limit. The more I play this the more I think of what Moonsinger wrote long ago with respect to her number 1 game:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonsinger
There were a lot of questions and usually not enough answers! Even after I had made a decision to invade Persia before Greece, more questions needed to be answered after that. Should I invite the Greece to join my quest for Persia or should I not? Can they be trusted? While most of my troops are away from home, they could easily storm my palace with ease! What should I do to prevent that from happenning?
In my game, I keep on asking questions like these: where do I plant settlers to best take more territory tiles? Do I plant this one settler in a spot where I can grab only 4 more tiles this turn, or should I grab a 6 or 8 tile spot next turn? Do I deal with a large stack of units so I can plant cities in that area, or do I just go at that AIs core and take cities? Where's the balance here? Where do I want to rail this turn to keep my armies moving?

How shall I spend my gold? Shall I cash-rush armies until I'm flat broke, buy more settlers (if a city has content citizens and the luxury slider won't do anything or bumping it one or two more ticks doesn't seem worth it, and I feel I have good cash, I'll buy a settler), or since I have Leo's employ more disconnect-reconnect for more units earlier since I face backwards spears, pikes, archers, longbows, medieval infantry, and muskets? If I face rifles the choice seems easy enough. But, with Leo's, and Sun Tzu's, I could theoretically cash-rush a horse-calvary for 116 gold, upgrade for 75 gold, for 191 gold a piece. Since armies cost 1660 gold to cash rush every turn, I have about 8.5 horse-calvary for the cost of one army... which is better? And even if horse-calvaries end up better now, will they end up that much better later on when I face more rifles, and potentially infantry? How do I factor in the number of workers I have to tie up to reconnect iron and saltpeter to do this in the first place? Do I attack with some rifles or not? Who do I attack next? How much should I put towards luxuries and how much towards taxes? How many units do I send away to try and finish off Persia and Germany for good, and how many do I keep at home?

Do I starve captured cities that I can, since they're in danger of flipping, or NOT starve them, so that once I finish off the target AI, I have more citizens for happiness, workers, settlers, potentially commerce, and unit support? I've started doing the later if the city won't riot more often than not.

Last edited by Spoonwood; Dec 27, 2011 at 10:43 PM.
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 10:39 PM   #172
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So you built a railroad you didn't need immediately. Although you would probably hook up the city eventually, so it's not much of an issue.
It's not at all clear how much this affects things. One unroaded tile can make the difference between capturing and not capturing in a city in a turn, which possibly affects how much force you need in the future to take that city, how many tiles you have that turn, and how many citizens you have that turn for score and possibly in the future (cultural calculations for resistors). If you just want to win, I agree, it's by no means make or break. But, if you play for maximum score, it comes as an entirely different matter.
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Old Dec 28, 2011, 11:21 AM   #173
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How shall I spend my gold? Shall I cash-rush armies until I'm flat broke, buy more settlers (if a city has content citizens and the luxury slider won't do anything or bumping it one or two more ticks doesn't seem worth it, and I feel I have good cash, I'll buy a settler), or since I have Leo's employ more disconnect-reconnect for more units earlier since I face backwards spears, pikes, archers, longbows, medieval infantry, and muskets? If I face rifles the choice seems easy enough. But, with Leo's, and Sun Tzu's, I could theoretically cash-rush a horse-calvary for 116 gold, upgrade for 75 gold, for 191 gold a piece. Since armies cost 1660 gold to cash rush every turn, I have about 8.5 horse-calvary for the cost of one army...
I'd go with more hc at this point, since you seem to have easy targets - so they chances are good to generate Leaders for free.

Quote:
How much should I put towards luxuries and how much towards taxes?
You could look at it as a choice between investment and consumption. Happyness is consumption. At this stage of the game, investments should still pay off in the long run.

You're doing great! At first it seemed to me like it would take forever to finish off those damned opponents. But now your conquest seems to go smoothly. I wish you good luck and the patience that is needed to manage all those units and cities.
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Old Dec 28, 2011, 10:35 PM   #174
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Thank you Stoe.

Of interest to analyzing the value of horse-calvaries vs. armies, with the Heroic Epic, you have a 1/12 probability of spawning an MGL, and (unless the thread where I saw this incorrect), 1/8 probability of spawning an elite from a veteran as a non-militaristic tribe.
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Old Dec 30, 2011, 10:32 AM   #175
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My thoughts on armies:

The marginal gain of armies sink a lot faster than those of units. The first armies are extremely important to protect your stacks. The subsequent armies still have a high value to defeat the strongest defenders without losses. But as soon as you start to fight spears and archers with armies, you'd be much better off with additional cavs instead of additional armies, as you simply have more firepower.

I've done some math, supposing that single units will win a battle every second turn (and never die): If so, you could expect to get your first leader out of 8 units around turn 10 after buying them. The frequency will rise for a while, before it will sink again.
So if you have no urgent need for armies, it should be better to get hc's.
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Old Dec 30, 2011, 11:19 AM   #176
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430 AD-Pharsolos of Greece completes Smith's. So, that leaves Russia, the Hittites, the Byzantines, and the Babylonians that I can leave around for war happiness. This sounds just right to me. No flips this turn. Score up to 3882 with 1524 tiles. The Ottomans split their stack. The screenshot shows the smaller one:



I have 120 calvary at the start of the turn. Greece, I guess with the effect of Smith's now in place, has even more gpt than before! Korea has trade their silks away. Sumeria has entered the industrial ages. They got Steam Power as their free tech. However, on the positive side, they have 226 gpt that I can obtain. I end selling my world map to Babylon for 85 gold and 1 gpt. I think I've gotten lucky having Greece very large and on some other continent with Smith's. I have to devote 8 total workers, but it's well worth it:



And of course, since Greece supplies me with spices, and I keep on conquering more territory and growing, they could get even richer and richer here, and maybe even get me to Replaceable Parts or Sanitation or both. This turn I'm supplying them with 182 gpt for those spices (that comes AFTER I made the last of those gpt deals). And I finally have ivory online near Karabuk. This city could flip to the Ottomans and possibly the Iroquois, so I'm not sure if I want to plant another city there to make sure I keep control of the ivory, keep the luxury slider at 80%, or drop it to 50% or 60% at this point without changing much.

After clearing out Persian units in the wrong pattern, I attack the German city of New Sardis:



I also capture New Gordium from the Persians. In the east I pick up 2 leaders. I capture Konya, and Kafa which takes salpeter away from the Ottomans. I actually load some 3/4 and I think one 2/4 calvary into the armies, since I have some armies that have fully healed blocking off the still rather large stack of Ottoman archers and spears. I haven't attacked it with armies, except the first turn of this war maybe. The armies which have healed have moved on to attack Ottoman cities, while the new, slightly wounded armies have become the armies to keep the stack from heading in a direction that I don't want it to go. My cannons certainly aren't bored now.
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Old Dec 30, 2011, 11:30 AM   #177
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My thoughts on armies:

The marginal gain of armies sink a lot faster than those of units. The first armies are extremely important to protect your stacks. The subsequent armies still have a high value to defeat the strongest defenders without losses. But as soon as you start to fight spears and archers with armies, you'd be much better off with additional cavs instead of additional armies, as you simply have more firepower.

I've done some math, supposing that single units will win a battle every second turn (and never die): If so, you could expect to get your first leader out of 8 units around turn 10 after buying them. The frequency will rise for a while, before it will sink again.
So if you have no urgent need for armies, it should be better to get hc's.
I'd like to see your analysis. In fact, I think you should post your analysis as a strategy article, and perhaps even a War Academy article. Granted most games don't have the sort of cash supply I do (the first game in this thread didn't, but I think I had over 30,000 gold stashed up to cash-rush armies at one point from just selling techs... I did face backward units in a few wars when I had rails... I didn't capture Leo's until late, and it wasn't close to where I started, but still), but that seems all the more reason to try and figure out the value of your buying armies vs. going horse-calvaries. Especially when fighting different types of units, and a comparison/comment on how things compare when you have Leo's and when you don't have Leo's.

I had thought of analyzing things more in detail and writing it up myself, but I have this game to focus on at present.
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Old Dec 30, 2011, 02:36 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Spoonwood View Post
I'd like to see your analysis. In fact, I think you should post your analysis as a strategy article, and perhaps even a War Academy article. Granted most games don't have the sort of cash supply I do (the first game in this thread didn't, but I think I had over 30,000 gold stashed up to cash-rush armies at one point from just selling techs... I did face backward units in a few wars when I had rails... I didn't capture Leo's until late, and it wasn't close to where I started, but still), but that seems all the more reason to try and figure out the value of your buying armies vs. going horse-calvaries. Especially when fighting different types of units, and a comparison/comment on how things compare when you have Leo's and when you don't have Leo's.

I had thought of analyzing things more in detail and writing it up myself, but I have this game to focus on at present.
My math is very unprecise. The 10 turns are just a rough estimation of what one can expect (so that one can expect to have 3,75 out of 8 vets promoted to elites by that point), so that their cumulated chances to spawn a leader are 31,75% - every two turns. I added that to the chances to spawn a leader out of those earlier elites. Logic tells us that you will get more elites than leaders, so that the chances to get another leader will tend to rise.

But to tell you something about what's better - units or armies, I'd have to know more about your tactics: What are you using your armies for? Are they currently attacking quite weak units? Then, money is better spent on units. Just make sure to have enough single cavs (and artillery) to attack all targets that are quite safe wins - you'll get more territory more quickly by that, and - in the long run (after around 20 turns), more armies. But that's only, if you have those easy targets. If not, armies - or artillery - might be the better choice. If you're short of armies to protect your stacks, build some. I just wouldn't buy armies if your targets are immortals, archers, pikes or spears.
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Old Dec 30, 2011, 03:35 PM   #179
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430 AD continued-I try to quell as much of the German resistance as I can. I still have some empty spots around, and as I feel a little better about my rail situation now, I end up chopping some forests towards settlers in tundra areas. This will work well, since they'd probably start starving next turn anyways. I decided to go with 60% luxuries. I have 1604 tiles under control at the end of the turn.

440 AD-no flips occur, and I do well over a dozen upgrades. Score up to 3994. The Ottoman stack splits a little more, but only 4 archers and 1 longbow have split up. I have 142 calvary. I don't think I lost any last turn. Sumeria now has Nationalism. Korea has well over 200 gpt, but I don't have any way to obtain it via a resource/luxury.

In the west, I capture New Ergili. In the east I spawn 4 leaders this turn. Even though I only attack with vets (including 3/4 vets) and elites, I end up finishing off the Ottoman stack. I have 30 armies now. I capture Ankara, Salonika, Mugla, Urfa, Uskudar, Denizli, and Bingol.

As an aside, but still relevant to this I would say there exist two ways to grow in well any civ III game in terms of score and scoring potentially.

1. Vertically. By this I mean that you increase in terms of population, number of workers, and your number of settlers.

2. Horizontally. This consists of growth in terms of the number of tiles you have under control, and the food quality of the tiles you have under your control.

To accomplish both quickly, in general, you want to use fewer settlers to take up more tiles. So, how do you do that? Well, here's an example of where I can gain 11 tiles with 1 settler, instead of using 2 settlers to gain those 11 tiles:



By the end of 440 AD I have 1730 tiles under control.

450 AD-Tyre flips, as does Borazjan. This drops my tile count to 1712. Score up to 4112, an increase of 118 points. I won't disconnect the saltpeter and iron this turn, as I have two gpt deals with Greece expiring here next turn. The Iroquois now have Magnetism, only lacking Theory of Gravity to enter the industrial age. I recapture the cities that flipped. I capture New Samaria, and Behistun from Persia. Here's an even better example of a good tile grab with a settler:

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Old Dec 30, 2011, 09:57 PM   #180
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450 AD continued-I gain another leader. I capture Zongdulak, Riza, Kirklareli, Edrine, Sinop, Aydin, Instanbul, Izmit, Antalya, Iznik, and Bursa:



I have 1950 tiles by the end of the turn.
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