[Civ2] Need Advice 250 b.c. - What should i do next ?

[Luven]

Hi everyone

Im new to civ2 but i read already quite a bit in the forums here.

So the Situation in this game is the following. (deity, raging hordes, random map)
- I have HG.
- MarcoPolo on the way.
- Monotheism done. Mikes not yet started.
- war with the karthagians gave me 2 cities, they have one left.
- 12 cities, 6 settler, 3 triremes. At 250bc.

First i planed to make a ship chain to leipzig. I shipped a dye caravan to Berlin(from New York) and it gave me only 40 gold. Thats not the best trade i could make i suppose...
I feel lost in general, on what to do next. It would be nice if some of you experienced Civfanatics could take a look at the save and give me some tipps. Especially goals i should reach for. Something like: go for railroads and democracy asap. Or keep karthagians as puppet and make NewOrleans an SSC or whatever...
If you want play 2-3 turns and tell me what you did... you know best what to do to help a newbie

My English isnt perfect, please forgive me.
Greetings from Switzerland
Luven

[Prof. Garfield]

Germany is on your "continent" (island). You can tell by checking the location. The "status" window will give the following information:

Loc: (XX,YYY) Z
(Terrain)

Z gives the continent number.

Berlin and New York are both on continent 2, so the trade bonus is reduced by 50% already. Also, New York is not very far from Berlin, so the distance bonus is rather small.

I would make a ship chain to Japan instead (given current information); it's a little farther away and is on a separate island. Depending on the number of caravans you can produce, it may be better just to have a few ships carry goods regularly, instead of use a ship chain.

Regarding your immediate prospects, I recommend switching production to caravans, so that you can build Marco Polo's Embassy and Mike's Chapel as quickly as possible. Also, you will want to acquire republic and switch as soon after you finish Mike's as you can. This will substantially increase the bonus you get from caravans (also, give Republic to any civ you want to trade with), and allow you to use WLTCD to increase the size of your cities.

You seem to have done quite well for yourself at this point. I'd finish off the Carthaginians, they'll probably be more of an anoyance than anything else. New Orleans is an OK spot for an SSC, but not spectacular. Since you don't have Colossus anyway, I'd probably not worry about building an SSC and put the resources into more caravans, ships and cities.

Some extra remarks are:

Switch Atlanta from Ocean to Forest (move the Chicago worker to another forest).

Don't build settlers in cities below size 4 unless they will grow to at least size 3 shortly thereafter. You are going to want to grow your cities via WLTCD once you get republic, and they will have to be at size 3 to do so. Also, you may want to ensure that your cities will grow to size 3 by the time you get republic, if possible (especially cities like Washington).

Don't deliver the caravan outside Berlin, but rather put it towards a Wonder or send it to Japan. Also, before delivering a caravan, maximize the city's trade just before the delivery, and reset to regular production just after (this will increase the delivery bonus somewhat).

[Luven]

Thank you for the fast answer. Now I get what black clicking means How many cities do you recomend I build ? I would like to have a balance between "enough" and "turn takes too long". What would you say is the amount one should have at least ?

Also the trade with Japan started very well but then they sneak attack on my caravans. How do i handle this ? Whats the best way to still get my caravans going ? (Conquer them, and reduce to 2-3 cities, but then they get small right ?)

I have Marco Polo now, im supreme so my KeyCiv are the purple in my case Mongols, right ? It seems they are pretty far behind technologie wise, how do i know if i should tech bomb them or not ?

EDIT: Okey I started over again at 250 b.c. I know you guys normally dont do this but im learning here and right now I wanna improve not live with my mistakes. So I realized that the Japanese sneak attack probably was because I allied with Spain against the Mongols and the Mongols were allied with the Japanese. So Japanese and Mongols teamed up against me... those sneaky bastards

So the question I have now, if someone like in my case the Spanish come and ask me for war against an unknown Civ. I usually tended to agree since they wont bother me anyway(too far away and dumb ai). And I get a better standing with the Civ I allied with. Now with Trade in the Picture that was obviously bad. What do you do if you dont have the relations in mind when they ask ?? Or do you never agree anyway ??

And still, what to do if a sneak attack from the trade partner comes anyway ?

[Prof. Garfield]

How many cities do you recomend I build ? I would like to have a balance between "enough" and "turn takes too long". What would you say is the amount one should have at least ?

One well placed city is often "enough," in the sense that people can win the One City Challenge. Civ size is largely a matter of preference (although from a strict in-game sense, more cities are usually better). Something to keep in mind is the Riot Factor (extra unhappiness from having too many cities). At deity level (and Large Map), a Democracy can have 15 cities and still have the first citizen content by default. After that, the first citizen is unhappy, which makes celebration more difficult (and requires either HG/CfC or courthouses for odd sized cities). After 30 cities, you will start getting "black hats" (very unhappy citizens) which can be made happy with only 2 luxuries, thus making it easier to have celebrations in the city. At 45 cities, all your cities will have one black hat.

Also the trade with Japan started very well but then they sneak attack on my caravans. How do i handle this ? Whats the best way to still get my caravans going ? (Conquer them, and reduce to 2-3 cities, but then they get small right ?)

Try to avoid having too many caravans on the ground at the same time; take them by ship as far as possible. You can also consider building (or capturing) a "port city" where you could unload and protect caravans. Keep an eye on attitude; the better their attitude, the less likely they are to attack. Also, consider giving tech gifts from time to time to improve their attitude (and give them things that might make them better trading partners, such as Republic and Construction).

Conquering a large portion of the Japanese civ probably won't do you much good; I wouldn't take more than a couple cities before you establish trade routes to other places.

I have Marco Polo now, im supreme so my KeyCiv are the purple in my case Mongols, right ? It seems they are pretty far behind technologie wise, how do i know if i should tech bomb them or not ?

At the moment you probably don't have many techs that are dangerous for the Mongols to have. Giving away a lot of techs will probably improve relations, and lower research costs. Lower research costs are always good, unless you are running into the 2/3 delivery cap (delivery bonuses are either capped at about 200 or 2/3 of your science cost). If you are conducting most research by caravan delivery, a higher cost may not be a problem, but at this point, there is little need to keep techs from the Mongols.

EDIT: Okey I started over again at 250 b.c. I know you guys normally dont do this but im learning here and right now I wanna improve not live with my mistakes. So I realized that the Japanese sneak attack probably was because I allied with Spain against the Mongols and the Mongols were allied with the Japanese. So Japanese and Mongols teamed up against me... those sneaky bastards

We only care if you re-load in a competition. You can learn a lot from re-loading, in particular it is worth while to check the different payouts from trade deliveries.

So the question I have now, if someone like in my case the Spanish come and ask me for war against an unknown Civ. I usually tended to agree since they wont bother me anyway(too far away and dumb ai). And I get a better standing with the Civ I allied with. Now with Trade in the Picture that was obviously bad. What do you do if you dont have the relations in mind when they ask ?? Or do you never agree anyway ??

Before entering into an alliance, think about what you expect to get out of it. If you are weak, you might be able to get some gifts from your ally, but you will be expected to give gifts if you are strong. You are protected from sneak attacks by your ally as well, you can move through his territory, and you may get military help (of dubious quality) in the event of war.

On the downside, if/when the alliance is cancelled, you will have units re-located (particularly devastating for ship chains and explorers) if they are nearer your former ally's city than your own.

Interestingly, alliances don't change the "reputation rules" (although they will impact the attitude of your ally) for declaring war. That is, you still take a reputation hit for declaring war at the request of your ally (but not so large a hit as if you declared war yourself), but you don't get a hit for refusing to aid your ally. Just be aware that they might not help you in the future.

If you declare war on someone you haven't met, there is no reputation hit, but they won't be very happy with you when you do meet.

And still, what to do if a sneak attack from the trade partner comes anyway ?

Minimizing your risk from sneak attacks is something you just have to do. If you have to leave multiple caravans in the open, be mindful of your partner's attitude. If they keep making demands of you, and have a negative attitude, you may want to consider finding another partner.

[Valka D'Ur]

Greetings, Luven!

Here's my 2 cents: I will occasionally sent a fighting unit along with a caravan, to help it get where it's going.

As for gifting techs... do you have Railroad yet? If not, try to get it ASAP and connect your cities by rail. That will give you Darwin's Voyage, which you should also build ASAP, since you get free tech out of it (and prevents your opponents from taking advantage of that).

One thing I do is freely give Railroad to my opponents (once I've got Darwin's Voyage built). That way it's easier to sent caravans to their cities, and also easier to conquer them later.

Regarding diplomacy: I never ally with anybody unless there's money in it for me. And keep in mind that they will continue asking you for things, and you need to be prepared for them to get into a childish temper tantrum if you don't give it to them. They'll dissolve the alliance and your units may find themselves exactly where you don't need them to be.

[Major Advantage]

Grüezi!

I mostly agree with what the advice already mentioned and would like to add another option: War! With limited intercontinental trade options, Crusaders (wich is the best offensive unit for a long time) already available and a good SSC still far away, you might as well start conquering the world.

Usually, after Marco Polo and map exchange with everybody you should decide on your general game-plan: Conquest or Landing, "early" or high-score.

[Ali Ardavan]

Welcome Luven. Prof. Garfield has already given you detailed excellent adivce. All I can add is consider joining the GOTMs. This is by far the best way to learn: by watching how others play the exact same game.