[FFH] - Erebus in the Balance

[Gaspar~]

Axe crush is pretty dull, but our options are a little limited given how Perpy's forced our hand. I'd prefer trotting out some Firebows but Bowyers is still prohibitively expensive at our current tech level. And while KotE will add options to the table in and of itself its not going to solve our current problem. Let's take Perp off the board with Axes then hopefully settle into a nice Amurite military afterwards.

[AJ11]

Originally Posted by SillyGoat

And a 33xp Warrior to boot. Nice.

Lurker: Yeah. Only one thing wrong with this scenario: They aren't CHA!!!

In Erebus, CHA is really king because of the enhanced promos. You want promos, faster and more. That warrior with Combat V, Mobility I and Shock/Cover would be

[Ilios]

Alright, it seems there is concensus for going Bronze Working and build an army worthy of [insert gratuitous reference to LotR here].

If we do head for Bronze Working, then I agree with Ichabod, and we should build the Brewing House (our low happy cap is really hurting us). BW will allow us to improve the jungled Rice, and will add an extra 20% commerce at the capital together with the Corn. (come on Beery, research Carto and Exploration already!)

However, I don't think we can afford not working the Incense tile at the capital, especially now that the Academy will come online soon. (building it at Gold city would help us with the culture war with Beery, but I think the capital is still producing more commerce, especially once the BH finishes.

Since we'll be having our own source of Bronze once BW, would it make sense in going for Warfare next? Do we have a shot at the Titan? Can we afford to sink hammers in it?

[Ilios]

Originally Posted by AJ11

In Erebus, CHA is really king because of the enhanced promos. You want promos, faster and more. That warrior with Combat V, Mobility I and Shock/Cover would be

Well, the Great Houdini is now at 37 exp, so I suggest we either keep the promo for healing or promote to C5. I'm not a big fan of promoting highly experienced units to either Shock or Cover. After C5, we should take Mobility 1, and after that (if he still lives) to Heroic Strength 1 and 2.

It's a pity we'll never be able to turn Houdini into a Firebow (I'm assuming we'll promote him to an Axe as well).

[Ilios]

Originally Posted by Ilios

Since we'll be having our own source of Bronze once BW, would it make sense in going for Warfare next? Do we have a shot at the Titan? Can we afford to sink hammers in it?

Personally, I think we don't really need it, and would rather grab KotE for Haste and the Eye.

[AJ11]

Originally Posted by Ilios

Well, the Great Houdini is now at 37 exp, so I suggest we either keep the promo for healing or promote to C5. I'm not a big fan of promoting highly experienced units to either Shock or Cover. After C5, we should take Mobility 1, and after that (if he still lives) to Heroic Strength 1 and 2.

It's a pity we'll never be able to turn Houdini into a Firebow (I'm assuming we'll promote him to an Axe as well).

Lurker: Heroic Strength/Defence requires the Hero promotion. Houdini isn't likely to get that unless you got the Champion of the Army event and he is the one who gets the status.

With the two guys around you, you are most likely to encounter Melee units (the little Dwarves like their giant blow-up dolls, and Perpy likes his Freaks). Also, Melee units are the most dangerous of all mid-late game units because of the metals. You haven't seen pain until you see a stack of 50 base strength 10 Champions knocking on your door. Shock I and II gives you another +80% vs them.

[darrelljs]

Perp is at two cities and at war. He's not going to build Settlers. Even at Deity level we can defend against him without breaking a sweat. It was pointed out when this plan first came up that Bowyers was insanely expensive, but we decided to go for it anyway. I say stick with it! Beeline the tech, build Warriors and expand, then upgrade all the units en masse and take out our two neighbor AIs. After that we can play around with all the arcance goodies we want.

Darrell

[Ilios]

Originally Posted by AJ11

Lurker: Heroic Strength/Defence requires the Hero promotion. Houdini isn't likely to get that unless you got the Champion of the Army event and he is the one who gets the status.

Ah yes...

Originally Posted by darrelljs

Perp is at two cities and at war. He's not going to build Settlers. Even at Deity level we can defend against him without breaking a sweat. It was pointed out when this plan first came up that Bowyers was insanely expensive, but we decided to go for it anyway. I say stick with it! Beeline the tech, build Warriors and expand, then upgrade all the units en masse and take out our two neighbor AIs. After that we can play around with all the arcance goodies we want.

Darrell

I've gotta say, I would much prefer going this route as well. Our first Archery Range will be finishing soon, and our tech rate will pick up once the Academy is done.

[Ichabod]

I prefer going Bowyers too. Perpentach probably has swarms of warriors and freaks in his land, so a non-summon/collateral army has a considerable chance to fail.

[Mardoc]

So, Gaspar's for Axes, while Darrell, Ilios, and Ichabod are all for Firebows. Edit: And even Gaspar considers Firebows more fun, just doesn't think they're feasible

I guess that decides it. Firebows, ho! And meanwhile, we'll try to keep the war investment small, to spend most of our production on infrastructure and expanding further.

The main question remaining in my mind is whether there are any other techs worth picking up en route? AH and KotE have been suggested, as has Cartography. (and Hunting, now that you guys are worried about happiness caps ). But if we go for all of them, Bowyers just keeps getting further out. Thoughts?

Edit: And maybe Warfare/BW for the Titan, to make wizard spam easy in the future

[darrelljs]

Originally Posted by Ilios

I've gotta say, I would much prefer going this route as well.

For reasons unknown, I've changed my mind.

Darrell

[Ichabod]

None of these suggested techs is going to greatly increase our research/production/etc, in my opinion. Going Bowyers, even if its going to take a while, is going to give us a lot (Perpentach cities and probably Beeri cities as well). So maybe we should just beeline Bowyers and that's it.

By the way, since we have an academy coming soon, might be worth to go 100% gold until we get it, then switching to 100% science.

EDIT: We could use the GSci for bulbing KotE. How useful would it be? We can get another GS by running 2 scientists somewehre (from EC + Mage Guild) for the academy. We would get the very interesting floating eyes. But that's pretty much it...

[darrelljs]

Originally Posted by Ichabod

maybe we should just beeline Bowyers and that's it.

+1.

Edit: We need the civic that saves on city upkeep, that is the only one that might be worth detouring for.

Darrell

[Ichabod]

Originally Posted by darrelljs

+1.

Edit: We need the civic that saves on city upkeep, that is the only one that might be worth detouring for.

Darrell

City states? The one we get with cartography? It's a pretty good civic, especially now that we are on deity dificulty, but is it worth the 1t of anarchy and leaving god king? Cartography also gives us the benefit of open borders with Beeri, since he apparently doesn't want to do it by himself (this reminds me of MP - noone wants to tech cartography, but everyone wants the next person to do it ).

Should we build more cities while we tech to bowyers? The land is severely lacking in resources, so it'll be hard to make new cities productive.

[Ilios]

I agree, let's just tech Bowyer and stomp the opposition. I don't think teching Carto will be worth the beakers, we can still use God King, both for the gold and hammer multiplyer.

Beery is bound to tech Exploration one day, so we can at least exchange resources and hope for an RoK spread.

We should indeed run a couple of turns of 100% gold before building the Academy, if only to have an emergency upgrade fund. At 400 beakers, KotE is too cheap a tech to waste our GSage on.

There is a decent site south of the capital (but maybe move the site east of the 'x'). It can borrow the Capital's Corn tile, and just grow into plains river cottages.

[Mardoc]

Well, first - we've got all of four cities. Is maintenance really that big a deal just yet?

Second, though - why do we want to address it with a Civic? We're freakin' Organized, Courthouses are all of 40 hammers.

EDIT: We could use the GSci for bulbing KotE. How useful would it be? We can get another GS by running 2 scientists somewehre (from EC + Mage Guild) for the academy. We would get the very interesting floating eyes. But that's pretty much it...

Well - we could start the jungle burning. And Haste is always a good thing. And we'd start some adepts getting XP. How much is an Academy worth?

[darrelljs]

Courthouses requires Code of Laws, which we won't be getting. I expect we will have 6 cities by my turnset, and it will be Deity, or near enough. Upkeep penalty from God King can get painful. So I think you people are wrong . That said, I'm not bothered if we skip what should be an insanely cheap tech.

I still think an Academy is the best move, but I'm too lazy to do the analysis .

Darrell

[Mardoc]

Originally Posted by darrelljs

Courthouses requires Code of Laws, which we won't be getting. ... That said, I'm not bothered if we skip what should be an insanely cheap tech.

Maybe Sareln's rearranged costs here too - I thought Cartography was about the same cost as Code of Laws, so I figured it didn't matter which approach we take when we decide to cut maintenance.

We probably eventually want to end up in Republic, once we have towns. So we'll want CoL eventually too when we leave City States, if nothing else.

In any case I'm not arguing that reducing maintenance is a bad thing, just that it can wait a while.

I still think an Academy is the best move, but I'm too lazy to do the analysis .

You're probably right, especially if we're sticking with the Bowyers beeline. Anything that reduces time to owning extra land is good.

Still, it's interesting to think about the possibilities even if they turn out wrong.


On a totally different note - can we get you to change the first post, to include the turn order? I don't remember if you're next, or Gaspar, after me.

[darrelljs]

Done!

Darrell

[Ilios]

Carto is around 200 beakers. Meh...