[FFH] - Miss Mahala and the Uncultured Boors

[Lone Wolf]

Well I think this one has more to do with Conquest + Rush Civ than the variant itself.

Lurker: And having a crowded map around your starting location. For FFH, I prefer Highlands maps with Sea water bodies. That makes it harder to rush.

[AJ11]

Originally Posted by Lone Wolf

Lurker: And having a crowded map around your starting location. For FFH, I prefer Highlands maps with Sea water bodies. That makes it harder to rush.

There is a reason why the original Erebus map script has all those passes and choke points...

[Lone Wolf]

There is a reason why the original Erebus map script has all those passes and choke points...

It has too many mountains and too few passes, though. The AI is actually hurt by all that.

[AJ11]

Originally Posted by Lone Wolf

It has too many mountains and too few passes, though. The AI is actually hurt by all that.

Towards the end, maybe, but right at the beginning, when the AI has 3-6 times your production, trying to invade one of them via a choke point is extremely difficult. I am talking a straight Deity start, though, where the AI has 6-9 times your units, twice your cities and 5 extra free techs.

[Gaspar~]

As entertaining as it is to hear a mapscript I would basically consider unplayable lauded, ultimately, two thoughts spring to mind:

If FFH isn't intended to have rushing be acheivable, why are there several rush Civs?
If the Doviello can't execute rushes, what precise purpose do they serve as they aren't good at anything else?

I'm not really trying to be snarky - FFH SP isn't hard, its not hard here, its not hard with Tholal's AI, its not hard on a Deity start. You can rig the game in such a way to make it more challenging but at the end of the day mobility, tactics and collateral are so core to the mod that it would require a masterpiece of coding for the AI to be able to keep up with the humans. Perhaps we should have played this variant on Deity - I think we all thought it might be a bit harder than it ended up to be - though I have to say, I generally don't play on Deity because I have little patience for the 5-10 minute AI turns it generates in the later game with the sheer volume of units it is shuffling around.

Anyway, I don't believe the game is over yet, we could still screw it up and the further the game goes on the less our specific advantages will play up. Don't get me wrong, I'd be shocked if we lost, but I don't think its in the bag to the extent the Amurites game was when we left it.

[AJ11]

Originally Posted by Gaspar~

As entertaining as it is to hear a mapscript I would basically consider unplayable lauded, ultimately, two thoughts spring to mind:

If FFH isn't intended to have rushing be acheivable, why are there several rush Civs?
If the Doviello can't execute rushes, what precise purpose do they serve as they aren't good at anything else?

I'm not really trying to be snarky - FFH SP isn't hard, its not hard here, its not hard with Tholal's AI, its not hard on a Deity start. You can rig the game in such a way to make it more challenging but at the end of the day mobility, tactics and collateral are so core to the mod that it would require a masterpiece of coding for the AI to be able to keep up with the humans. Perhaps we should have played this variant on Deity - I think we all thought it might be a bit harder than it ended up to be - though I have to say, I generally don't play on Deity because I have little patience for the 5-10 minute AI turns it generates in the later game with the sheer volume of units it is shuffling around.

Anyway, I don't believe the game is over yet, we could still screw it up and the further the game goes on the less our specific advantages will play up. Don't get me wrong, I'd be shocked if we lost, but I don't think its in the bag to the extent the Amurites game was when we left it.

Completely off base and a lousy line of argument. It is like saying that 18 Civ Pangaea Tiny map proves that the Civ4 AI is utter pants because rush civs dominate there.

[NobleHelium]

The Civ4 AI is pretty much utter pants. That's why they get bonuses to increase the difficulty.

[Gaspar~]

Originally Posted by AJ11

Completely off base and a lousy line of argument. It is like saying that 18 Civ Pangaea Tiny map proves that the Civ4 AI is utter pants because rush civs dominate there.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything.

We're not trying to prove anything. I think we're playing these games for two reasons - firstly to have some light-hearted fun with our friends and secondly to give some exposure to a mod we enjoy. I personally am enjoying them so I feel like we've been a success at that point. Whether or not we're doing a good job at the second point I can't say.

So apparently I let things get a bit off-topic so let's rectify that and we can leave the debates about the quality of mapscripts and the AI for the FFH discussion forum where they belong, and we can have this thread be about the succession game we're playing.

All applicable apologies for the distraction.

[Ichabod]

I already played some turns, but couldn't finish it yet. I'll try to finish it while I'm watching the super bowl. It's good to watch the bizarre way of playing football once in a while.

[Ilios]

I never understood why Americans insist on calling it "foot"ball.

[darrelljs]

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_Ame..._'football'

Darrell

[Ichabod]

Turn 100-110:


For starters, here's something funny. I was taking a look at the map after opening the save and I noticed that Falamar's land look a lot like Italy.

Spoiler:

If we are playing in a map of Europe, we started in the north, in Norway, most likely. Seems fitting enough for me!


Turn 101:

Spoiler:

This was the defense of Khazak, the capital of the Khazad. Why are they building boats is beyond me. We were a little bit short of troops here, but I attacked anyway and conquered the city with ease. It was razed for 158 gold... Dwarven Vaults weren't that filled, I see...

After that I took 2 70% shots at the warriors you can see NW of my warrior. I lost both... I didn't want the warriors to reinforce the city. Well, the main reason for the attack is that I played very aggressively through the whole turnset.

I captured a worker from Arturus (he had captured one of ours before with a scout). That's one of the nice things about playing the Doviello. You can turn workers into soldiers pretty quickly and you can do it while moving too (maybe this is a bug).

Anyway, we were not finished, there was also the siege of Vallus, in the Bannorland.

Spoiler:

We had enough troops, but we were lucky too. I think I won 3 25% battles (odds I was getting on the warriors). After the city fell (171 gold - FoL holy city razed) Sabathiel lost his copper, meaning no more though defenders being built. For some strange reason, though, he didn't have any more strenght 4 warriors... I don't know what happened, but that meant the rest of the Bannor empire was quickly destroyed. It helped that I brought some pretty promoted reinforcements that were fortified in a city.


Turn 102:

I don't know how this happened:

Spoiler:

But if it was really Falamar that started burning those jungles, then maybe there's hope for the AI. But I think it was the Azer that popped from the Brandeline's Well that did it when killed, so better not keep our hopes up...


Turn 103:

Biggest fail of my turnset. The failed siege of Kadar.

Spoiler:

For those wondering where's Lucian in the save, he couldn't make it... He lost that battle. The city had something like 4 warriors and 2 scouts. We lost several 60-80% battles and we were forced to retreat. The dwarves earned they right to live until the end of my turnset...


Turn 105:

Meanwhile, the Bannor were busy being conquered...

Spoiler:

The city fell with little casualities and we got 177 gold.

As you can see, I was teching Smelting. Thei idea was to get Iron Working, as discussed. I used this fella here:

Spoiler:

for a golden age. Tech went Smelting -> Warfare (which is a pre-requisite for IW, as I found out) -> IW (partially bulbed by the GEng, just so I could finish it in my turn - nah, it was fitting enough).


Turn 107:

Good bye

Spoiler:

I think he had some fawns in the city... Can't remember very well and forgot to take screenshots...


Turn 109:

We met Dain of the Amurites. We were 1 turn from finishing IW (Iron still wasn't hooked up, as I'll show later) when this happened:

Spoiler:

Go! Go! AI! Why on Earth would I want a powerful strategic resource that will boost the troops I'll use to kill you if I can have my very soft clothes? Yeah, cardith finished the Mines of Gal-Dur and he wanted to do some trading. It makes going for IW actually a bit of a bitter taste. But that's not totally right, since we get 27 gold Battlemasters, which will be great!

And that was the end of my turnset!


Things to note/discuss (yes, this is the important part):

*Hearts just finished a settler for the Iron spot. When I was deciding about what to build next, I realized that this was still avaiable:

Spoiler:

It doesn't produce any culture, after all. So I say we try to get it. I have 2 workers ready to chop a forest to help making it quicker.

*About the Iron spot:

Spoiler:

The settler is currently unmoved. There's already a worker roading the Iron tile (I thought about this before the Kurio stupid deal). You can also see the city of a Leg (I was in a drama club until last year and we always wanted a lot of broken legs) that I settled with a previous settler. And just because I'm saying a lot of "settle", there's another settler being made in Bones that can settle wherever you guys want him to settle.

*Finishing the Khazad. Here's what Arturus has now:

Spoiler:

Here's the invasion stack I left for the next player. The troops already have Iron Weapons, but I think an upgrade to Battlemasters is a good idea (27 gold). The strange units are horsemen (the troops are unmoved).

Spoiler:

*The other stack is healing in Kurio's land (not only did he improve the army that is going to kill him, he also healed it...)

Spoiler:

But I think we should focus on softer targets for now. That 6/8 paramander is not very inviting. Up to you guys, though.

*Research is set to Sanitation as a place holder (which can be pretty useful too). I really want us to get sorcery, because regeneration is all that is missing for our stacks. Other options are sanitation, construction, military strategy (unlike FFH XIV, the Great Commander is avaiable here )...

*We are currently at a Golden Age, so we can make free civic swaps. We can adopt Military State instead of Apprenticeship. If we get the FotT, which I think we will, I think it can be a good idea. +25% while building troops can help, even if it isn't that necessary.

*Some tiles gave me 90 gold when pillaged... Easy way to sustain research, it seems...

[Ilios]

Looking very good, that was a great report Ichabod!

[darrelljs]

I got it...can't see the pictures at work but it sounds like good news. I guess this will be my last turnset .

Darrell

[Mardoc]

Nicely done, Ichabod. Great report, too

Originally Posted by darrelljs

I got it...can't see the pictures at work but it sounds like good news. I guess this will be my last turnset .

Darrell

I don't know...I do love builder turnsets...

[SillyGoat]

This was the defense of Khazak, the capital of the Khazad. Why are they building boats is beyond me. We were a little bit short of troops here, but I attacked anyway and conquered the city with ease. It was razed for 158 gold... Dwarven Vaults weren't that filled, I see...

City capture gold is based on city size, length of time owned and a random roll of the dice. Size of treasury doesn't matter (and hasn't since Civ II IIRC. )

Tech note: If you're considering Sanitation and Construction, tech Construction first for the extra prerequisite bonus on Sanitation.

[Lone Wolf]

To be fair, I don't think that the AI have been that horrible so far. This game just illustrates that the Doviello aren't as pathetic as they are usually considered - especially on your moderately clumped settings. The Bannor and the Khazad had built a nice amount of units, you just got there early due to all your cheap upgrades and no need to build any troop buildings.

[Ichabod]

Originally Posted by Ilios

Looking very good, that was a great report Ichabod!

Originally Posted by Mardoc

Nicely done, Ichabod. Great report, too

Thanks!

Originally Posted by SillyGoat

City capture gold is based on city size, length of time owned and a random roll of the dice. Size of treasury doesn't matter (and hasn't since Civ II IIRC. )

I didn't know the exact formula, but I knew the civ gold wasn't taken into account. It was more of a joke.

[Gaspar~]

Nice work, Ichabod.

[darrelljs]

Okay...everything looks pretty good . Softer target = Keelyn in my book.

111 - Cardith wants us to cancel deals with the clan..sure, why not. I notice we are at war with the idiot dwarf but not enough forces, so I decide world map = win.



Oh man this is going to take forever...one kill per turnset people, for the love of my sanity .

113 - We get the Great Commander. I'm thinking...golden age? I dunno. I didn't do anything to start another GP on my turnset, he's just chilling in the capital right now. I also swap us to Military State.

115 - Bloodbath time !









116 - I need a little more !



117 - This guy needs a BIG to compensate for his little one.



119 - I got a sickness...and the only cure...is more !



Commando is awesome till the AI sucks too much to build roads.

120 - Apparenlty I am supposed to stop here, but...



.



(over)time!



Settle that city, heal up, and go kill the horsie guy. Tech path was Philo/MT/Masonry/Construction/Sanitation. I think WoE makes sense for econ purposes. Also it would be nice to have things to build, my turnsest I built nothing but Settlers and put signs where I think they should go . Enjoy!

Darrell