TSG29 After Action Report

[leif erikson]

Originally Posted by mike678

First time playing gotm so I'm not quite sure how well I did or what exactly to post here lol.

Welcome to CivFanatics and GOTM.

Congrats on your first win. Please have a look around and use other posters as examples. Posting your exploits is a way to learn, for you and others.

[Helldritch]

OMG... just finished watching Dave's vid. For the first 70 turns, it's almost a copy paste, right to the postion of the first three cities. It's after that that it becomes obvious that Dave is way beyond my skill... Still it was inspirationnal. Maybe I should replay with Dave's vid in windows. Might be a good trainer ^^.

[FeiLing]

Date submitted:	2012-02-12
Reference no: 	25687
Game status: 	Science Victory
Game date: 	1650AD
Turns played: 	240
Base score: 	1057
Final score: 	2202
Time played: 	15:04:00
Renamed file: 	FeiLing_C502901.Civ5Save

My first submission (well... I did play TSG28 but got carried away doing some mix of science/culture/time/domination victory with the mongols ending at something around turn 400. God I'm awful at conquering... always want to steamroll the enemy with the best units (which usually happen to be replaced just every few turns which leads me to actually never build a unit - I obviously didn't submit that game ).

However this time it was a Science game. Still I'm surprised that my victory time at turn 240 is actually pretty good after reading through this thread. I made a TON of mistakes. I absolutely facepalm'd myself 2-3 times throughout this game, so I definitely see how people finished it at turn 215 to 220-ish. Turn 190 though seems totally unreal... amazing job man!

Now about the game:
First of all... yes, I am playing really slowly (15h woot?), thinking through options a lot and also doing some calculations in between as well as micromanaging which tiles are worked all the time. Nevertheless I must make mention that not only a few hours probably were just the game running in the background while I did something else or was afk

One large spoiler for all the pics and the story:

Spoiler:

Since I just learned a few days ago, that one gets the marble wonder construction bonus right away (without having masonry) when settling on the resource I wanted to try that this game. I opened Tradition so I could make use of the combined wonder bonus from the marble and from aristocracy asap. However I believe Liberty would have been the better choice. Especially since my Collective Rule settler came out a few turns later and then had trouble to actually found a city. I wanted Pasargadae to be on the east of the mountain, so I could quickly steal the gems from the CS by buying a single tile (see the first picture (which is from a later point in the game already)). However when I came there a barbarian camp popped up next to that location (where I ended up settling!). First I brought in a scout, to cover the settler on the hill so he could just place the city next to the barbarians anyway; right in their face! ... I did exactly that... and then... I noticed that spot is too close to Belgrade
Well that sucked! Brought in a second scout (I think I went Monument-Scout-Scout btw) to take out that barbarian camp and settled where that used to be. I somehow still managed to grab the gems before Belgrade later, it was quite expensive though.

At something like turn 32 or 33 (not sure) Washington declared war on me. Seriously? I didn't do even settle anywhere close to him. I was so far away from his cities, that I considered it not to be much of a problem. Still started Archery tech just to be safe. Suddenly, a whole lot of warriors next to my city. The Archer didn't come quite in time, so he missed out on two shots. I nearly died by his warrior rush! Persepolis was damaged by more than 50% before I finally got enough warriors disposed. This was very close. If archery came one turn later (archer was rush bought then), I'd have been lost the game:




And what does one do after barely not succeeding in a solely offensive war with no way whatsoever of the defender to strike back? You offer peace and give him all your gold and luxuries




Just after that Lhasa wanted help against a barbarian camp in that desert north of my empire, so I went there and showed them barbarian. Luckily they even captured a Lhasa worker, which I returned to them. Friends forever. I was allied with them for the rest of the game without pushing a single coin over the table as they always wanted something (1x a great person, 1x a wonder build and 2 times a natural wonder discovered) - excellent!




Expansion time. Just next to Washington was a beautiful place with Ivory, 2 cattle, 1 sheep and a river - just next to a mountain - count me in! That city also completely walled the Americans off, they always were on the bottom of the scoreboard for the rest of them game - surprisingly he never attacked me again (only got 1 RA out of him though in total). My final 4th city also got a spot next to a mountain in the south for obvious reasons. Didn't make any screens from the midgame. It was overall very peaceful. Always expected Washington to strike again, never did. Always expected Askia to assault on me, he never did (well a few turns before I won, but that doesn't count). Proceeded to scout the continent, sell luxuries and sign RAs. Got a few cancelled (Elizabeth is so stupid... kept declaring war on me every few turns), but otherwise the Science Game was pretty successful. Except my first two RAs: They were a total failure as I mismanaged my techs and got only a mere 6 turns out of two RAs. That was so awful
Got a lot of wonders and started creating Great Scientists with universities in all cities. Unfortunately I progressed too fast in culture, which 'forced' me to use up two GS to bulb myself to the Observatory tech (Renaissance) which was necessary to dive into Rationalism for the RA bonus just before my next wave.

I often thought about taking Gao, however it was the right decision not to as he never attacked me and did sign quite a few RAs. The situation just before I finish the Apollo project:




Telegraph finishes in 4 turns. So does Oxford. 3 GS waiting. One more to pop before Apollo. For a long time I glanced at Washington and the juicy 8 aluminium next to his capital. Again it was the absolute right decision not to take it as that war (albeit easily won) would have cost me too much resources/time. Instead I settled a useless 5th city on the aluminium in the large desert between my capital and Lhasa (be careful when you do that in case you are building Oxford or another natural wonder at that time).

You see the coal? I bought it from Alexander (whom I just found around turn 200 lol). No coal anywhere close to my empire... really weird. Bought 2 Factories when I got it. He declared war on me before I could get 2 more factories though.




Wohoo... had to buy a mech infantry to fend him off. Other then that I've just build one artillery piece as England was a nuisance with her constant wars with longbows. And I still had 3 crossbowmen, upgraded from the early archers (not many promotions though).

Alex also brought a few friends to the party:




Good for me that Liz just signed a peace treaty (even though I build the Apollo project just before), so I didn't have to fight on both sides.

Sold all my lux (also unique copies, still didn't drop into unhappiness) and all my income for some cash. Just enough to buy 2 spaceship factories. I build the Luvre before to make sure I was in a golden age when I build the parts. Totally unplanned my cities happened to be able to produce the parts in a very nice manner:
Persepolis (SF): 6 turns for engine, 6 turns for stasis chamber
Pasargadae (SF): 6 turns for a booster, 6 turns for another booster
Ecbatana: 12 turns for the cockpit
Susa: ~11 turns for a booster (+1 turn to walk it into the capital)
= 12 turns to build all the parts. Nice.

Halfway through all the parts suddenly Askia thought I shouldn't win.



However I just rush-bought a rocket artillery piece from the leftover aluminum and managed to take Gao on the final turn (thanks to the goldened 4 movement of my mech infantry!), which boosted my base score from 937 to 1057, as he had 2 wonders there (great lighthouse and the colossus). Only then I added the last spaceship part

[kcd_swede]

I learned that if you have already done two city-state worker steals, it is best not to completely eliminate the guy who dow's you first.

I was actually quite lucky to suvive that early dow by songhai... got immortals just in time. Out of spite, I wiped him off the map, taking his 3 cities.

A short while later, every civ dow's me. I actually hold off the first three, but when stacks from four and five arrive its rage-quit time.

Live and learn.... (and just keep telling myself this is NOT civ4, this is NOT civ4, this is Not...)

[leif erikson]

Originally Posted by kcd_swede

A short while later, every civ dow's me. I actually hold off the first three, but when stacks from four and five arrive its rage-quit time.

Live and learn.... (and just keep telling myself this is NOT civ4, this is NOT civ4, this is Not...)

Ah, Civ4 can be no better at times. Got dogpiled by 4 civs after declaring on one in my Civ4 gotm last night and went to bed

Oh well...

[Hammer Rabbi]

Originally Posted by kcd_swede

I learned that if you have already done two city-state worker steals, it is best not to completely eliminate the guy who dow's you first.

yeah, leave an ai one of their cities. i found out the hard way that outright erasing someone from history was a big global penalty, haha. led me to a few rage-quits before i learned this.

[Cromwell]

Had a nice little science lead on turn 193, three cities, was having fun playing with maximizing Research agreement output. But then Greece was about to wipe out Askia, so I jumped in. This was an bad idea, I was widely denounced, and Washington and Greece both attacked. At one point was down to two cities swimming in a sea of artillery and helicopters, desperately killing off any melee that came near. When one of them was about to fall, traded it to Washington for peace, got him to attack Alex, and reestablished myself.

I did learn various tricks for getting peace on Emperor level, capturing a city and immediately trading it for peace and a dowry, and why exactly beelining to logistics is necessary, particularly on defense. But main take-away: don't start wars. it did make me feel like maybe next time I'll beat Emperor, though.

Ended the game with 4 cities, back at peace with everyone, 2 of them even on speaking terms, sitting in disembodied SS cockpit making vrooming noises while Washington blasted off, followed shortly by Egypt.

[FeiLing]

When I watched DaveMcW's video and looked at the screens/reports from others in here and compared it to my game I wondered how these games tend to be totally different from each other. How come in my game Washington warrior rushed me and in other games he quickly expanded? Why did "my" Alexander go for full Patronage and in other peoples game he didn't even touch Patronage.

Is this because the savegame was made with random seed option enabled or is it just so that minimal differences in the game (like where the player scouts and places cities etc) that trigger the AI to play a totally different game?

[leif erikson]

Originally Posted by FeiLing

Is this because the savegame was made with random seed option enabled or is it just so that minimal differences in the game (like where the player scouts and places cities etc) that trigger the AI to play a totally different game?

I would tell you if I used random seed, so no, the saves do not use that option. Think that random seed applies to reloads?

[IR0NMIKE]

First official GOTM, played TG27 a few times.


Game: Civ5 GOTM 29
Date submitted: 2012-02-12
Reference number: 25693
Your name: IR0NMIKE
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1834AD
Turns played: 287
Base score: 1211
Final score: 2124
Time played: 8:35:00
--------------------

I went Liberty off the bat, to get GL with the Engineer. Worked well, and I built it around turn 60 which is pretty late.


America led off with a warrior rush I promptly destroyed with my two cities (I built Pasargadae 2nd as a hi-pop city and unit generator - no mountain) - then I moved a couple Immortals NE to force a peace and to seize the nice mountain spot up there (Susa).

Then Songhai Dow'd so I built my 4th city Ecbatana in the mountains by the Jungle to seal off the south. Later I built or captured a seaside city East and West so I could screen invasions from the water.

England behaved odd - they Dow'd me 3 times, got to my border, then asked for even peace. Weird.

I went patronage 2nd for the science and lux bonus, till rationalism opened up. Didnt help tech as much as I hoped. Had lots of city states which always helps in proxy wars.

With the peninsula secure I just loafed to the science victory. Have to work on my building game, took too long with what was given. Various Civs attacked here and there but were spanked with extreme prejudice, then I'd turn another civ on them for laughs.

[FeiLing]

@leif erikson: That's what I though random seed does, yes. And technically everyone of us reloads the TSG game when we start it (so everyone might get a different "random seed" (whatever that means)). However apparently this does not have an influence on the AIs strategies/behavior as you said it is off (so their behavior might be randomized by default). Maybe that option only causes different combat outcomes, dunno. Never actually tried it.

Even more interesting: Every report in here sounds like every game went a totally different way with AIs doing completely different things. In IR0NMIKE's game though it looks like the AI pretty much behaved exactly as it did in my game (warrior rush by Washington, England always declaring war and making peace again). Differences occurred later then by the individual player strategies (rather then by the AI having other plans in the first place). For e.g. I believe IR0NMIKE sold open borders to Washington (which I never did) and that may have enabled him to expand a lot more than in my game (where he only had two more small cities in his corner at the very top).

That's kinda interesting. Maybe there are like a few possibilities/rolls which influence the basic game happenings/behaviors. If two players happen to "roll the same number" it will be the same game except the players don't act identical, thereby the AI will make different choices too. However their initial plan appears to have been the same in that case.

Just trying to understand the game better

[leif erikson]

Originally Posted by IR0NMIKE

First official GOTM, played TG27 a few times.

Welcome to CivFanatics and GOTM.

Congrats on your first win, may you have many more.

Originally Posted by FeiLing

Just trying to understand the game better

Aren't we all.

Sometimes it seems to be beyond understanding. With Civ it has always been that RNG...

[pontias]

Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1650AD
Turns played: 240
Base score: 945
Final score: 1968
Time played: 11:39:00


thanks for game lief... was fun.

cocked up the end - i didn't realise i needed nanotechnology so was 1 scientist short
luckily i had an outstanding RA I forgot about that knocked 15 turns or so out of researching it.

apart from that everything went pretty well. my end game sucked - i had no coal or factories so was very slow.
also my great people skills sucked big time - i was hoping for a few engineers for manufactories at the end... didnt' even manage to get the golden ages going.

tried to follow vexing's RA guide. did pretty well - got 1st batch started at turn 86.
think my unis were a bit late - i didnt hard buy anything all my money was tied up in RAs.

think i would have knocked 20 turns off if I realised about nanotech. could have easily had RAs set up for that.

(looking back 220 would have been pretty competitive. getting better )

[pontias]

Originally Posted by DaveMcW

I tried to provoke Washington into declaring war on me, but he was a coward. Fortunately Askia had the right idea.


link to video.

about turn 240 - what happened with rami and the 2 cotton? didn't really follow that? did you know that 2nd cotton was about to become available?

[Gamewizard]

Turn 266 Science Victory

Very fun game, I liked the map very much. I try to play a mix of fun and optimization, but mostly fun. I settled my second city by the wine along the river between England and Songhai. This irritated both of them and Askia would eventually attack. I settled the third city south of the capital along one of the mountains and river. A 4th city squeezed in east of the cap and southwest of the citystate to grab 2 more silver. A 5th city later on went up way north to grab the Ivory near a mountain, 2 CS's and Washington.

I jumped between Tradition and Liberty and then the whole left side of Rationalism. Saved about 5 GS's for the end along with the 2 free techs from Rationalism. Signed many RA's of course.

I refuse to sign RAs with Civs that hate on me, which obviously affects the speed of winning. But I have morals dammit!

The best part of this game was the varying alliances that occurred. I wish many of the haters on these boards that say diplomacy is non-existent in Civ V could have seen this one to prove them wrong.

[Arilian]

Could someone let me know how mutch it cost them in breakers to research Electricity in this game after meeting all civs?
I have modified my xml files long ago, and while it seems everything is on standard, I have a feeling that it is still too much.
Thank You.

[tenen487]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 29
Date submitted: 2012-02-15
Reference number: 25704
Your name: tenen487
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1886AD
Turns played: 313
Base score: 1467
Final score: 2366
Time played: 10:19:00

My first game with Persia and my first submission. I am still not able to win all my emperor games so I am pretty content with this one. I aimed to maximize golden ages and had three of them totalling 140 turns. I was ahead on tech, military, money etc and got all but one of the wonders i desired.

I was DOWed by Askia and Washington early and was forced to rush buy a warrier to repel Askia and lost one warrior too. I then built a small army and conquered Washington to cover my backside. After reading this it seems this was my worst mistake.

I was able to get about 2 RA:s completed the rest were repeatedly cancelled because AI DOWed me on the last turn. They also behaved really irrational being friendly on one turn and declaring war on next. Could this be due to eliminating Washington?

I also wonder if I used my great scientists wisely or should I have saved them to the end. Here is what I did: Used two to get banking and one on economics. If I remember correctly the idea was to max gold before Taj Mahal. I used on to pop scientific theory to get public schools faster. Two popped refrigeration and plastics to get research labs. One I wasted on fission because I thought I needed A-bombs . One I used to pop Radar before getting Rocketry with oxford and starting apollo program. The last two I used on particle physics and nanotech.

One final question regarding previous post: Do you get science benefit from number of civs known?

[mike678]

Originally Posted by tenen487

One final question regarding previous post: Do you get science benefit from number of civs known?

I don't know the math behind it but you get a small benefit for every civ who has researched it before you and that you know. So its important to meet the civ's as early as possible.

[leif erikson]

Originally Posted by tenen487

My first game with Persia and my first submission. I am still not able to win all my emperor games so I am pretty content with this one.

Welcome to CivFanatics and GOTM.

Congratulations on your first win and good luck in future.

[QuizMan]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 29
Date submitted: 2012-02-16
Reference number: 25713
Your name: Quizman
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1854AD
Turns played: 297
Base score: 1015
Final score: 1720
Time played: 6:22:00
Submitted save: TSG29 science victory turn 297.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Quizman_C502901.Civ5Save

A victory, but not my finest and in the end I was glad to finish in under 300 turns. Because of other commitments I had to play this in small bursts which is never conducive to a cohesive strategy.

Things started well enough with a masonry, then the writing tech path. I was fortunate with the only two ruins I found getting culture and bronze working. Even at emperor, I still had enough time to get the GL.

SIP and early cities were by mountains for the silver, buying libraries in all but the capital. After NC a 4th city went NE for the ivory sparking a near-instant DoW from Washington. It was easily rebuffed, but my first major mistake was settling for peace too soon. I should have let him sweat and gone with swords after IW. I finished up declaring on him later to puppet his 3 best cities. The only other war was Monty (and all his CS's) which was harder but not that difficult as I had artillery by then. It did however mean I was building units rather than buildings for too long. Askia was a buffer that I could not get through because we refused open borders.

My other major mistake was the timing of RA's. I had a couple too few mid-term and two too many at the end. Got there eventually though.