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Old Feb 19, 2012, 12:12 PM   #1
DragonKnight
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What's your first build in your capital?

Seems to me, that unlike civ 4, the starting techs are always the same. So that means the choices of what to build first are always the same. This means there is more likely to be a single obvious first choice to build in your capital... yet my search of the forms couldn't find one (could be the weak search engine though... some how "first build" was too short to search on... )

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Old Feb 19, 2012, 12:46 PM   #2
Hpuk
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Scout, unless I know I started on a very small island.
On Inca and Aztecs I sometimes take a warrior instead, since they have abilities to traverse forests (aztec) and hills (inca) without penalty.
First actual building is a Monument, unless I somehow managed to pop the pottery tech from an ancient ruin, in which case I might opt for a granary if there's wheat, bananas or deer around.
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Old Feb 19, 2012, 01:20 PM   #3
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I've lately been filling the tradition tree first so I don't built the monument, the granary in the case above, scout if big map, if not, I start with a warrior, then a worker or another warrior if there are many barbarians, and if I find a near civ around, I build many workers and beeline ironworking to take em down :P
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Old Feb 19, 2012, 02:50 PM   #4
Tabarnak
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I used to start with a scout but i now find that a monument start is more beneficial in most cases.
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Old Feb 19, 2012, 08:19 PM   #5
DragonKnight
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I read somewhere that granaries were no longer an always build type building... was that wrong?

@devilhell, I don't understand, if there are barbs or another civ you build many workers?
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Old Feb 19, 2012, 09:04 PM   #6
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I build a second warrior, and use the two warriors to take out nearby Brute encampments and defend my home territory.. This works at middle levels, but you may need to bee-line it for Great Library at higher levels.
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Old Feb 19, 2012, 09:13 PM   #7
DevilHell
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Originally Posted by DragonKnight View Post
I read somewhere that granaries were no longer an always build type building... was that wrong?

@devilhell, I don't understand, if there are barbs or another civ you build many workers?
Nope, normally I build a warrior thena worker, but if there's barbarians or another civ I build 2 WARRIORS maybe three and don't give importance to a worker, you can get it stealing it from a CS or from another civ if attacking it..
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Old Feb 20, 2012, 07:35 AM   #8
joncnunn
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Landmass specific:

If known to be a sufficiently large landmass:

1. Scout
2. Monument

If not, the Monument will be my first build.

If I'm going Liberty, and the Monument finishes before Pottery then I build a Warrior while waiting to build the Granary.

I guess I should note I'm playing Aztecs now on a known jungle map; in this case I built their UU instead of the Scout, but they functioned similarly with the added advantage of being able to attack any barbarians found.
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Old Feb 20, 2012, 11:57 AM   #9
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I read somewhere that granaries were no longer an always build type building... was that wrong?

@devilhell, I don't understand, if there are barbs or another civ you build many workers?
I actually rarely build granaries. I build them in cities I want to focus on production and specialists, but most other cities don't get them.
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Old Feb 20, 2012, 08:15 PM   #10
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I read somewhere that granaries were no longer an always build type building... was that wrong?
Depends upon tactics I guess; but personally I do regard it as an always build.
Even if that city doesn't need more food; that's at least one more worked mine.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 05:15 AM   #11
WilliamKendall
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I start by building two scouts. I want to find ruins and a truely great site for my 2nd city. After the scouts, I usually move on to one combat unit and a settler. A worker is likely to follow.

It seems to take a while before I get to add buildings. I prefer monuments and granaries at the beginning, though I don't yet have a rule on which comes first.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 07:09 AM   #12
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Depends upon tactics I guess; but personally I do regard it as an always build.
Even if that city doesn't need more food; that's at least one more worked mine.
If I can't get a few maritime CS alliances I would tend to agree with you. However if I can get a few CS alliances those will cost less maintenance per turn than granaries and it get the other bonuses of having the CS alliance.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 08:06 AM   #13
Mazer Rackham
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Originally Posted by Tabarnak View Post
I used to start with a scout but i now find that a monument start is more beneficial in most cases.
Really? I'm surprised to hear this. I know you value quick early expansion - is the reason you do this to get out the Settlers earlier?

What about the potential for ruins, increased money from CS, and scouting the land so you know where you want to place your settlers?

I'm not trying to argue; just want to hear more on your reasoning.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 08:07 AM   #14
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If I can't get a few maritime CS alliances I would tend to agree with you. However if I can get a few CS alliances those will cost less maintenance per turn than granaries and it get the other bonuses of having the CS alliance.
A CS is roughly 8 Gold per turn to keep up, maybe slightly less if you pay 500 gold and maybe less if you can do a mission for them of course. Lets say it averages at 6 gold per turn to keep up a CS-ally. That would be 6 granaries in upkeep. Usually you don't even have 6 cities (apart from puppets maybe). More importantly though a granary gives +2 food per city, possibly more if there are deer/wheat/banana resources while a CS only gives +1 to your cities, so you need to keep up two CS for the same effect (except the capital which will get +3 from one CS already).
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 08:23 AM   #15
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A CS is roughly 8 Gold per turn to keep up, maybe slightly less if you pay 500 gold and maybe less if you can do a mission for them of course. Lets say it averages at 6 gold per turn to keep up a CS-ally. That would be 6 granaries in upkeep. Usually you don't even have 6 cities (apart from puppets maybe). More importantly though a granary gives +2 food per city, possibly more if there are deer/wheat/banana resources while a CS only gives +1 to your cities, so you need to keep up two CS for the same effect (except the capital which will get +3 from one CS already).
If you get the first two policies in the Patronage Tree that cuts the maintenance for the city-state in half and if the city-state gives you any luxuries the income from selling that luxury to the AI by itself will pay for the maintenance of the CS relationship (without the policies). So you just have to come up with the start up money. If I remember the math correctly that the $750 start up will buy about 2.5 granaries.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 08:41 AM   #16
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Scout.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 08:55 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by WeaselSlapper View Post
If you get the first two policies in the Patronage Tree that cuts the maintenance for the city-state in half and if the city-state gives you any luxuries the income from selling that luxury to the AI by itself will pay for the maintenance of the CS relationship (without the policies). So you just have to come up with the start up money. If I remember the math correctly that the $750 start up will buy about 2.5 granaries.
I feel like the lack of food early on would slow you down. You could always sell the granaries later I suppose if you did a patronage tree stop. Also to avoid granaries completely I feel like you'd have to stop finishing liberty to get the most benefit from your money to maritime cs's and that's not worth it because it will delay your great person which is useful for the pt and notre dame.

Also you can't sell cs resources I don't know what you're talking about.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 09:00 AM   #18
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Also you can't sell cs's resources I don't know what you're talking about.
If I get a luxury from a CS and I already have 1 I can sell the 1 I have and use the luxury I get from the CS. Or if I get one I don't have I can sell one that I already do and keep the same happiness or use the happiness from the CS luxury to grow a few more citizens.

Usually I've found the early limiter of growth to be happiness not food. Of course there are always exceptions to this and it's dependent on the map and starting location. By the time I usually start to see growth limits from food (when I would start to consider granaries) I can start to afford to buy some CS allies.

Also my early production is usually consumed by military or other infrastructure so adding granaries is usually a low priority.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 09:12 AM   #19
mike678
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If I get a luxury from a CS and I already have 1 I can sell the 1 I have and use the luxury I get from the CS. Or if I get one I don't have I can sell one that I already do and keep the same happiness or use the happiness from the CS luxury to grow a few more citizens.
If your selling your extra luxuries you should be spending it on research agreements. If you constantly have to sell luxuries to keep maritime cs's you're falling behind in tech.

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Usually I've found the early limiter of growth to be happiness not food. Of course there are always exceptions to this and it's dependent on the map and starting location. By the time I usually start to see growth limits from food (when I would start to consider granaries) I can start to afford to buy some CS allies.

Also my early production is usually consumed by military or other infrastructure so adding granaries is usually a low priority.
Unless you're doing something crazy like 4 cities before national college happiness really shouldn't be a big issue. Assuming you can average one luxury per city you shouldn't be negative.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 09:29 AM   #20
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If your selling your extra luxuries you should be spending it on research agreements. If you constantly have to sell luxuries to keep maritime cs's you're falling behind in tech.
I'm only talking about selling the extra luxuries gained through the alliance with the CS, not the extra luxuries I have on my own.

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Unless you're doing something crazy like 4 cities before national college happiness really shouldn't be a big issue. Assuming you can average one luxury per city you shouldn't be negative.
Normally I have 2, rarely 3 cities before NC. I like to play on dense maps and if I wait for NC I will usually lose good city spots. Getting 1 new luxury per city can be challenging looking at the 3rd and 4th city spot (at least when trying to keep the cities close enough so they can be defended).
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