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Old Feb 26, 2012, 10:10 PM   #1
Manco Capac
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What is the earliest WHEEORN you have seen?

On typical settings, not on advanced starts or special mods:

I saw a 2800 BC WHEEO(R)N once with Kublai. It's on T30.

Condition: You may not abused the AI before. The AI should have decided due to RNG to go to Wheeorn.

Of course, this is less noticed in unmodded game. In certain mods, you see a fist next to leader name; that is entering in WHEEON mode.
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 11:50 PM   #2
Zx Zero Zx
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3300 BC I think, might have been 3100. Monty liked the idea of backstabbing me after I stole a worker, and chocked Sury.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 12:38 AM   #3
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Wow, that's really early. Earliest DoW I've ever seen (but multiple times) was 2500 BC.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 11:47 AM   #4
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Yeah I've seen many DoWs around turn 50... never against me, fortunately
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 11:49 AM   #5
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Is there anything in the code that limits a DOW early?
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 11:58 AM   #6
Cort Haus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zx Zero Zx View Post
3300 BC I think, might have been 3100. Monty liked the idea of backstabbing me after I stole a worker, and chocked Sury.
Assuming it was Monty's worker you stole, and he that dow'd you, why is it described as a backstab? Sounds like a frontstab to me, as backstabbing is surely something that 'friends' do.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 12:05 PM   #7
Manco Capac
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Originally Posted by Zx Zero Zx View Post
3300 BC I think, might have been 3100. Monty liked the idea of backstabbing me after I stole a worker, and chocked Sury.
Hard to believe when deity normal speed is your common setting. How would you steal a worker, then make peace very early to end up targeted because he is now annoyed for -3 "You have declared war on us!"and -1 "You have declared war on a friend!", which means better chance of Wheeorn.

Looks like trolling again, mister.

I should have precised wheeorn state without interfering/messing with the AI.

I was very astonished by how early Kublai was already preparing a war with two cities when I did nothing to get him so enraged for blood.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 12:10 PM   #8
Manco Capac
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Is there anything in the code that limits a DOW early?
Very good question but I can't fully answer that one.

So far, I heard once the AI gets access to multiple types of units for war training, then Wheeorn may happens.

For instance, copper would allow spears and axemen; then wheeorn activated.
OTOH, early horses only give access to chariots, then no wheeorn.
Archers don't count because they are not offensive units. You may have stack of archers, but I think you looked after problem to get to this: dogpiling or you DoWing the target.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 12:16 PM   #9
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So far, I heard once the AI gets access to multiple types of units for war training, then Wheeorn may happens.
Thnx, didn't know this. It is kind of a limit.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 12:55 PM   #10
Manco Capac
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Thnx, didn't know this. It is kind of a limit.
And I thought (when I read it) it was reasonable because the AI is so bad in war that a pure unit rush would be killer. Let's guess a pure chariot rush; then whipped two spears and the stack is gone.
At least with heterogeneous stacks, they are capable to defend at least a tad better.

Of course, pure mounted attackers along siege units may exist and it is lame.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 01:03 PM   #11
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Or an entire stack of siege units. I really wish the would have fixed that after they changed the siege rule.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 01:52 PM   #12
Zx Zero Zx
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Originally Posted by Tachywaxon View Post
Hard to believe when deity normal speed is your common setting. How would you steal a worker, then make peace very early to end up targeted because he is now annoyed for -3 "You have declared war on us!"and -1 "You have declared war on a friend!", which means better chance of Wheeorn.

Looks like trolling again, mister.

I should have precised wheeorn state without interfering/messing with the AI.

I was very astonished by how early Kublai was already preparing a war with two cities when I did nothing to get him so enraged for blood.
Nahhh he met Sury first before I met either, and they were happy with each other. I found Sury to be close, and took a worker from him, and chocked him. Monty didn't like that so he ploted. It was one of my first Deity games. After that I realize that it wasn't worth it on Deity.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 02:21 PM   #13
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On deity + mara with their 2 starting cities a civ that starts with mining and gets BW in its first 2 techs could easily start plotting very early if they have copper. I don't think it's possible to win when those things all line up.

Not sure what the earliest I've seen is, but definitely before 3k BC.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 10:26 AM   #14
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First time I tried deity difficulty shaka attacked me totally unprovoked before 3000 BC and that was game over. There is nothing you can do against an AI that early. He attacked with an archer. This was on Warlords though and marathon speed, perhaps they changed the rules in BTS.
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Old Feb 29, 2012, 10:33 AM   #15
Manco Capac
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Originally Posted by stoferb View Post
First time I tried deity difficulty shaka attacked me totally unprovoked before 3000 BC and that was game over. There is nothing you can do against an AI that early. He attacked with an archer. This was on Warlords though and marathon speed, perhaps they changed the rules in BTS.
Wow, that is so lame. But I remember Alex DoWing me with two archers coming from the other side of the continent once not even being plotting anyone yet. Looks like one of those rare instantaneous DoW. And yes, that happened in Warlords long time ago.
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 03:24 AM   #16
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What does wheeorn and Dow mean?
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 03:41 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Sobchak View Post
What does wheeorn and Dow mean?
DoW: Declare/Declaration of War.

WHEOOHRN: "We have enough on our hands right now." If the AI has this as a reason for a war bribe being blacked out, it means they are either in a war or actively planning one, and it might be against YOU! BUG mod has a red fist that shows when someone has entered WHEOOHRN.
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 03:48 AM   #18
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I find unfair a mod telling you AI is planning war, kind of cheaty and for sure an advantage to the player.
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 04:29 AM   #19
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Thank You, King
And yes, I agree. Its cheating.
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 04:38 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Sojuz View Post
I find unfair a mod telling you AI is planning war, kind of cheaty and for sure an advantage to the player.
It does tell you nothing, you could not see in the normal diplomatic interface. It simply makes it so that you don't have to talk to everyone every turn. No cheating at all, unaltered gameplay.
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