[Religion and Revolution]: Further Native Nations

[colonialfan]

Fantastic job Schmiddie.

The buttons and flags look great. I especially like the Zapotec and Guarani ones, and the Carib image on the green background really pops.

I only have one tiny suggestion. The Huron placed a lot of veneration on the turtle, above most other animals, so much so that it represents their nation today. A turtle would be more accurate for them, but if it is a lot of work to change the flag and button, as long as the rest of the team is okay with it, I can live with the bird image for the Huron as well.

Again great job, I can't wait to see the flags and buttons for the other civs we develop. Let me know if you need suggestions for further cultural image designs.

[AbsintheRed]

Yeah, IIRC we used the same buttons for Inuit, Zapotec and Guarani in Age of Further Discovery
Good job on them nevertheless, I really like this composition!

[Schmiddie]

Originally Posted by colonialfan

Fantastic job Schmiddie.

The buttons and flags look great. I especially like the Zapotec and Guarani ones, and the Carib image on the green background really pops.

I only have one tiny suggestion. The Huron placed a lot of veneration on the turtle, above most other animals, so much so that it represents their nation today. A turtle would be more accurate for them, but if it is a lot of work to change the flag and button, as long as the rest of the team is okay with it, I can live with the bird image for the Huron as well.

Again great job, I can't wait to see the flags and buttons for the other civs we develop. Let me know if you need suggestions for further cultural image designs.

Thank you.

No problem, we can change the logo for the Huron. But the turtle is already in use for the Arawak at the moment. Do you have an alternative for the Arawak?

Furthermore, we must check the need ingame unit graphics and graphics for the camps of the new native nations. At the moment there are only placeholder, but I think we don't need to change a lot of because the placeholder are already usefull. But If you could give some impressions...

[Schmiddie]

Hi Folks,

here are the first 6 flags (please ignore the unit graphics), the hurons are missing because we have to solve the problem with the turtle first.



Upper Row: Algonquian, Navajo, Inuit
2. Row: Zapotec, Guarani, Caribs

The flags are in line with the nation colours...

[colonialfan]

Originally Posted by Schmiddie

No problem, we can change the logo for the Huron. But the turtle is already in use for the Arawak at the moment. Do you have an alternative for the Arawak?

How about this one, its the Taino flag of the Antilles. I little bit modern but we might be able to get away with it?

Originally Posted by Schmiddie

Furthermore, we must check the need ingame unit graphics and graphics for the camps of the new native nations. At the moment there are only placeholder, but I think we don't need to change a lot of because the placeholder are already usefull. But If you could give some impressions...

Sure, happy to help. I know KJ did some work on the Inuit camps that were really good. I'll try to dig up some more images of the other civs camps for you. But here is some to be going on with.

Algonquian/Huron Carib/Arawak Navajo

[raystuttgart]

Originally Posted by Schmiddie

Hi Folks,
here are the first 6 flags.

Flags and Colors are very good, to my opinion.

But on the screenshots it seems like the flags cut through the units.
(Is this also the case with TAC flags ?)

[Schmiddie]

Originally Posted by raystuttgart

Flags and Colors are very good, to my opinion.

But on the screenshots it seems like the flags cut through the units.
(Is this also the case with TAG flags ?)

Thanks and yes, thats true - wow eagle eye! (I did not notice it until you did).

The flags "cut a little bit through the units". But that is also in TAG. The reason is, that TAG uses 3 units instead of 1 unit (three warrior are shown instead of only one in vanilla). So it should be also in the vanilla version, but you don't see it because there is enough space left and right to the flags from the (one) unit. But I think it doesn't matter. It is only visible - a little bit - if you zoom very close to the units. And the picture illustrates this problem considerably higher than you will notice it in the game...

The only way to solve this would be to use only 2 units instead of 3 - or we find a way to erase the flags a little bit from the units...(don't know if this would be possible).

[raystuttgart]

Originally Posted by Schmiddie

The flags "cut a little bit through the units". But that is also in TAC.

Ok, no problem then.

Originally Posted by Schmiddie

But I think it doesn't matter.

I agree.

I was just wondering.
(I never noticed that in TAC but I usually don't zoom in that close.)

Just continue your great work.

[orlanth]

I really like the flags and icons, good job!

I bet the problems of flag cutting off could be solved by adjusting XML/Units/FormationInfos , (although I don't know the details of how that file works myself.)

[raystuttgart]

Originally Posted by orlanth

I bet the problems of flag cutting off could be solved by adjusting XML/Units/FormationInfos , (although I don't know the details of how that file works myself.)

I think Schmiddie is right.

It is no real problem because you will probably only notice when zooming in very close.
I did not notice this problem at all until I saw Schmiddie's close-up screenshots.

I believe we can live with that.
(At least for now.)

[Schmiddie]

Hi Folks,

I go on with the unit graphics of the new nations.

I started with the caribs. Most likely my result is not historical (colonialfan ), but the warrior look like their leader (head)...

Feel free to discuss the caribs

[AbsintheRed]

I'm not sure what's the team's opinion on this, so it's only a question about your plans:
Is it necessary for you to have a different unit skin for all the native tribes?

IMO some close civs could easily use the same graphics
For example Arawak and Carib; Zapotec and Mixtec. Or if you decide to add the Mapuche then the Tehuelche and the Mapuche too
I'm sure Colonialfan can say which are the most appropriate civs to share unit graphics

[raystuttgart]

Originally Posted by Schmiddie

I go on with the unit graphics of the new nations.
I started with the caribs.

I really like it.


As I said, the best way to my opinion, is to have the units look generally similar to the leader.
Thus it is relatively easy to match Unit <-> Leader / Civ.

Originally Posted by AbsintheRed

Is it necessary for you to have a different unit skin for all the native tribes?

Not totally necessary, but really great to have.

[AbsintheRed]

Originally Posted by raystuttgart

Not totally necessary, but really great to have.

Even if it's not too historic?
I mean, I can't really imagine the Zapotecs and Mixtecs having totally different looks, just because their leaders are represented differently in the mod
Also, in this case: I really like the graphic Schmiddie, awesome work on that!
But I'm not sure if this total body paint is accurate for a caribbean tribe

[Schmiddie]

We will have different unit graphics for all native nations.

But...don't worry. The problem is already solved.

We use similar "nif-packs" for similar nations. Hence, the nations WILL look similar (haircut, weapons etc.). We will just modify the colours a little bit and maybe make some little improvements (if I will be able to use blender and nifskope... lol). The caribs maybe are an exeptional case...

And the same with the city graphics of the native nations. We will use similar graphics for similar tribes (e.g. Huron / Iroquois; caribs / arawak). But I will try to implement some different but typical tents or houses to make them unique.

[AbsintheRed]

Originally Posted by Schmiddie

We will have different unit graphics for all native nations.

But...don't worry. The problem is already solved.

We use similar "nif-packs" for similar nations. Hence, the nations WILL look similar (haircut, weapons etc.). We will just modify the colours a little bit and maybe make some little improvements (if I will be able to use blender and nifskope... lol). The caribs maybe are an exeptional case...

And the same with the city graphics of the native nations. We will use similar graphics for similar tribes (e.g. Huron / Iroquois; caribs / arawak). But I will try to implement some different but typical tents or houses to make them unique.

Sounds great overally!
I especially like the city style part
Hope everything works out

[raystuttgart]

Originally Posted by AbsintheRed

But I'm not sure if this total body paint is accurate for a caribbean tribe.

We already had that discussion, when choosing the Leaderhead for caribs.

Generally we will try to be historic.

[agaro]

Generally I support historical accuracy, and logical constructions.

But the Carib guy gives me such a big smile every time he comes on my screen - I vote to keep him no matter what. In fact when I work out how I am going to add him as my avatar.

And if his braves look similar, even better. Where do I buy the spin-off merchandising action figure?

[orlanth]

Yes I also like the custom graphics.

Here are a couple units I came across in Fall Further that could have potential use for the mod (one is a native warrior, the second could fit as a bandit or pirate if you alter the mask.)

[colonialfan]

Originally Posted by AbsintheRed

I'm not sure if this total body paint is accurate for a caribbean tribe

Perhaps not their total bodies, but I went through some very early Spanish colonial archives, (Sadly I don't know Spanish so I am at the mercy of the skill and aptitude of the translation ) and I did find a few vague references (a few words literally) that mentioned body paint being seen on a few Carib warriors. Or at least the Spanish assumed they were Carib warriors. Unfortunately, they neglected to mention to what extent the warriors were painted or what color.

I would imagine the Caribs would have been painted for intimidation purposes rather than camouflage, so it would be logical it would have been a bright color like a blue, red or a yellow, very much like ancient Celtic, Gual and Germanic warriors were painted.