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Old Mar 07, 2012, 08:29 AM   #21
Mylene
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I tried, but stopped cos our surrounding land was no fun. There's no food anywhere besides 1 spot -.-
Might be winnable, but i was just dragging around..
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 09:15 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zx Zero Zx View Post
It has absolutely everything to do with how good a start is. Besides tiles shown in the capital is average to me, as I don't really build wonders besides The Oracle.
Quote:
Start =/= Capitol, so your arguing different things.
Glad we discussed that.
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 01:48 PM   #23
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Spoiler:
Well I stopped when i lost Lib by a turn at 425AD, was all ready to break out from my 5 cities
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 05:53 PM   #24
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I'm not sure how many times people regen starts if they don't think this capitol is good. Is it in my list of top 5 ever? No. But it's certainly good.
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 07:22 PM   #25
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850 BC

Spoiler:

Tech: Agriculture, wheel, pottery, Myst, Med, Prist, Bronze, oracle MC, Writing, Aesthetics.
850 BC traded for alpha, math, iron working, masonry and I bulbed machinery. 10 turns to construction and 6 turns to my next GP.

Built 11 warriors for fog busting. Lost 5. Killed 5 archers and 3 warriors.

Screen shots:
Spoiler:


Spoiler:


Spoiler:


Spoiler:
Attached Files
File Type: civbeyondswordsave Deity Peter BC-0850.CivBeyondSwordSave (146.5 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by gspchamp999; Mar 07, 2012 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Added save
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 07:53 PM   #26
shakabrade
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Not that bad so far

Spoiler:
Very hard map. Luckily, silver popped in my bfc around 500BC and helped me to maintain 5 cities. Having no early commerce nearby really sucks. Especially when Charlie has more than 3 gold. Cyrus built GLH and Parthenon and that tempted me to attack him as early as possible. And so I did. It was trebs+maces+some pikes+some crossbows+HAs (to flank catapults if possible)

Bulbed machinery with GS and traded for engineering.

1AD:


Cyrus vassalized:


It seems that UN is the best shot here, since I fear Charlie and Joe are becoming too advanced. Wang Kong could be defeated but he is too far away and it could only halt my research too much. Maybe some nukes would make this map dominatinable/conquestable but I hate late wars.

Save attached (BUFFY mod):
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File Type: civbeyondswordsave For Screenie Vassalized Cyrus.CivBeyondSwordSave (257.4 KB, 1 views)
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 07:55 PM   #27
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Till 175AD

Spoiler:

As said I`m not so experienced with pang maps, I`m usually playing continents/fractals. But to me it seemed logical to wander with the settler 2N/1W and just gamble on some resources in the fog. Well that didn`t work out that great.. since food is rather scarce in our area.

Soooo.. I traded the awesome capital for a crappy one. Was tempted to reload but just went with it. Anyway the point still stands that I expanded towards the AI, which should give me better maintenance/more room.

If I recall well the tech path was: aggri, wheel, pottery, AH, myst, BW, writing, Aest.

Overall I started quite slow and reached Aest at 750BC. Then started to trademonger like mad. Pang is so nice for trade-abuse. Built TGL/NE and kept an eye on techs/gold for bargains. At 400BC I had 700+ gold from trades. I decided to tech HBR at one point since nobody had it, so I could gather some more gold or use it as an extra tech in trades. I had 3 marble / 1 copper which translated into many resources and gpt since the AI values it high.

So I could run 100% research for a loooooooooooooong time. Bulbed phil, 2x bulb edu, bulb lib.

At 175AD I`m at lib with 1 turn into machinery to trade and a turn or two/three in gunpowder since I was waiting for a GS to bulb lib.



















Till end
Spoiler:

I considered the game won. Either military or diplomatically. I just put all my workers to sleep and put all cities on building wealth/research so I didn`t have to bother selecting buildings etc..

Picked astro from lib and beelined mass media by doing end turn, end turn, end turn, etc. Charly and Cyrus dowed Lincoln and later WK but I insta-bribed them to peace to prevent them asking me to join.



Yay.


All posting around the same time! I`ll take a peek at the others.
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 08:26 PM   #28
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Wow, some mad teching here from AIs who are not really famous for it oO
Your Capital move turned out to be great @Burn, must admit i never would have considered that
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 08:39 PM   #29
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@Champ:
Looks very nice so far.

@Shaka:
How`s the tech situation? I`d reckon you could still catch up with your empire size once it gets more infra. But yea you`d probably be looking at late-game warring or a UN win (or combo). But tbh maybe you could try internet/space. The AI is not `that` much bigger but I`m sure you have a better feeling of your game to know if it`s possible or not.

@Mylene:
Yea, it turned out pretty well. What did it for me is that the corn/floods/marble spot is a great GP farm. So I thought that as long as I keep the rice and some grassland river the capital should be pretty ok in Bur.
However! I had a slow start since growing wasn`t that quick and it was annoying to get settlers out.
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 08:43 PM   #30
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@Burn
Thanks. Your game is much more impressive...as always
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 09:42 PM   #31
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Thanks, I find I usually play rather boring though. That big buddhist block might prove rather problematic in your game. I wish you good luck with the trebs.
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 09:46 PM   #32
shakabrade
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@Nice games guys

@BurN
Spoiler:
Once again, I am humbled. 175AD Lib, damn.

Tech screen:


I find my tech situation optimistic, since two 10 size cities are in revolt and one has 2 settled GM and one GPro (17GPT), I will have Oxford in 11 turns and universities. GScientist is on his way, and have generated only 4 GSs so far, so I have plenty more to come for golden age, trade mission, and phy and electricity bulbing. I don't even have National Epic because of my bottom of the tech tree experiment. At least I can research astro after education and trade it around and get chemistry since there are going to be some privateers soon. Btw, do you know why I chose trebs+maces approach? Because Cyrus had a pretty large stack with ciy raider units so I thought I was going to be DoWed on (he was cautious with me then). I had a 20 axeman+some spearmen garrison stack which dragged my economy down since dawn of time and wanted to use it. I made an experiment which proved to be stupid: bulbing to engineering. Well, instead of bulbing engineering, GS was more for optics. At least I bulbed Machinery just before. GE would do the trick with Eng. And yeah, I also upgraded those axes. It wasn't worth it. I guess you learn something every day.

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Old Mar 08, 2012, 02:57 AM   #33
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@Shaka Great idea putting a note up for what turn you have begged! I'm stealing it. I'm guessing the notes for Charlie and Cyrus are also to remind you when you have begged from them?

As for my game, this was probably the closest I came to a Deity victory (until I got a space victory with Mansa on Medium and Small last night that is! ).

I've seen worse surrounding land. It wasn't all that bad. I teched to cossacks as quick as I could. Bulbing a lot (with the help of the Great Lib and Parth). Finished my final requistite tech (rifling) in 1240AD then upgraded a bunch of Cuirs. Turned out I had enough money (mostly from selling techs and resources) to upgrade a lot more. Not sure whether 1240AD is early... The bulbing (and trading) speeded things up but my actual bpt was really poor and rifling took me ~15 turns.

I capitulated Monty (who even though he had cottaged everything was way behind in tech) and after that Lincoln. Was preparing for Charlie iirc, then got DOWed by Jao(sp?) and it was game over. I've never had so many highly promoted units. Cossacks were slaughtering Monty's bows and pikes. I had a bunch of 5 combat and blitz promoted units.

Last edited by pixiejmcc; Mar 08, 2012 at 03:22 AM.
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 03:21 AM   #34
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@Burn Nice work. I'm clueless when it comes to UN victories. How could you be sure you would get enough votes? Seems to me even if an AI is at pleased or friendly it doesn't necessarily mean they will vote for you...
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 06:48 AM   #35
shakabrade
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@Pixie

Actually I saw that in some SGOTM games. I used to set reminders before, but sometimes AI doesn't have enough money, so this is better. Makes you aware all the time. Yeah, other notes are also begs.

Regarding UN victory, people have to be friendly with you to give you a vote for victory, and that usually means +10 relations on deity, +9 on Immortal, I believe. Some AIs have lower tresholds, and monty usually takes +11. Also, if AI is friendly with both candidates, vote goes to one who he is friendlier with. Vassals always vote for their master if he is a candidate, and vote normally if he is not. You get relations by sharing religion, by BOTH of you having his favorite civic, by fair trade relations (gifting techs or money), by we appreciate years you have supplied us with resources, by mutual military struggle, by defensive pacts (be warned that defensive pact can have negative hit on relations with other civs if they don't like your buddie), by city liberation (+1.5 per city), and there is also you shared your technologies with us if you traded a lot of techs with someone. All these modifier's max value is determined by leaders. And all bonuses increase with time. And candidates always vote for themselves (except humans with free will).
Regarding becoming candidate for election, you must either build UN or be the largest or second largest civ (if largest one built UN) in terms of population, and that doesn't take population from demographics into account but is actually a sum of citizens which equals votes fot the UN (for example, if you had two cities, one size 11 and other size 7, you have 18 population and also 18 votes). If you're the largest civ sometimes it is smart to research mass media yourself and then trade it to someone who doesn't like you to build UN for you. There's no worse thing for UN victory than having your huge civ friend being candidate.

@Cossack date
I find that date a bit late, but it can work out on many maps. You can take out Lincoln, WK and montezuma on this map, but you can't do anything to Charlie and Joao.
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 08:01 AM   #36
soundjata
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signing in

2040 BC
Spoiler:
declare on charly attacking 2 workers on a copper mine
he has 3 times my strength


900 BC
Spoiler:
OWNED
Spoiler:
by the AI

Last edited by soundjata; Mar 08, 2012 at 09:19 AM.
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 08:17 AM   #37
Habitus
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To vote for you the AIs need +8 INCLUDING the hidden modifiers, so some vote for you at +6 others need +10 visable
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 09:55 AM   #38
shakabrade
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Never got vote with just +6 on deity. Is difficulty part of hidden modifiers. I also heard something about lower half of scoreboard hidden bonus. Can you explain that a bit?
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 10:04 AM   #39
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The AI have default modifiers as part of their Leaderhead. Gandhi and Zara are the only ones with +2, the lower scoreboard I'm not 100% sure, i think its small nations work together bonus but can't remember if thats hidden or not.
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 10:48 AM   #40
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Lots of great info there. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shakabrade View Post
@Pixie

Actually I saw that in some SGOTM games. I used to set reminders before, but sometimes AI doesn't have enough money, so this is better. Makes you aware all the time. Yeah, other notes are also begs.

Regarding UN victory, people have to be friendly with you to give you a vote for victory, and that usually means +10 relations on deity, +9 on Immortal, I believe. Some AIs have lower tresholds, and monty usually takes +11. Also, if AI is friendly with both candidates, vote goes to one who he is friendlier with. Vassals always vote for their master if he is a candidate, and vote normally if he is not. You get relations by sharing religion, by BOTH of you having his favorite civic, by fair trade relations (gifting techs or money), by we appreciate years you have supplied us with resources, by mutual military struggle, by defensive pacts (be warned that defensive pact can have negative hit on relations with other civs if they don't like your buddie), by city liberation (+1.5 per city), and there is also you shared your technologies with us if you traded a lot of techs with someone. All these modifier's max value is determined by leaders. And all bonuses increase with time. And candidates always vote for themselves (except humans with free will).
Regarding becoming candidate for election, you must either build UN or be the largest or second largest civ (if largest one built UN) in terms of population, and that doesn't take population from demographics into account but is actually a sum of citizens which equals votes fot the UN (for example, if you had two cities, one size 11 and other size 7, you have 18 population and also 18 votes). If you're the largest civ sometimes it is smart to research mass media yourself and then trade it to someone who doesn't like you to build UN for you. There's no worse thing for UN victory than having your huge civ friend being candidate.

@Cossack date
I find that date a bit late, but it can work out on many maps. You can take out Lincoln, WK and montezuma on this map, but you can't do anything to Charlie and Joao.
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