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Old Apr 12, 2012, 01:55 PM   #21
The Pilgrim
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I understand. I've really done nothing. I built HS+PT+ND just recently and that's it. But now when I'm thinking about it I did ally CS early, at ~30ish, and I remember selling OB to him so he must have been friendly back then. Gosh, what a wonderful diplomacy system we have here...

Never mind. I'll make him love me whether he wants or not.


Part IV: Gaining the lead

The moment I met Hiawatha I sell him my last and redundant cotton and OB. Unfortunately he is still in Medieval so I don't sign RA with him just yet. I'll wait for a few turns. If he doesn't make it I'd pay the penalty.
Spoiler:


Let's have a look at the tech tree:
Spoiler:




Economy is crippled. Buildings maintenance starts to add up and my pathetic cities cannot make up for that. At least I'm finishing market in the capital. It will spare couple of gpt.
Spoiler:

Harun and Askia made peace. You're predictable guys.

At the end of this turn first RA will resolve and will provide me free amount of beakers equal to current median tech. Which is Banking or Acoustics. Since there are two techs that are more expensive or equal to Banking and two techs that are less expensive or equal. This amount of beaker currently covers 8 turns of research. With my own 1 turn of research I'm about to get roughly 9 turns of scientific progress. Which is enough to discover Steel, Engineering and to carry 3 turns overflow towards Physics. You can never discover more than 1 tech with RA on the same turn thus at most you discover 1 tech with RA and another 1 with overflow+you own research.

Hit the next turn button:
Spoiler:



Since the final dude was found caravel explores southern seas and snoops around Persian lands.
Spoiler:

Spoiler:

As I've said already: that's mutual buddy. I'm not happy though he settled that one tile city. It's on my way.

I sign first RA of the second wave with Ramesses. He's in Renaissance already.

The tech tree:
Spoiler:

The numbers you see are deceptive as they were calculated considering the overflow I carried. What should happen next is: RA resolves and gives me roughly the same 8 turns of research from the previous screenshot. 1 turn goes towards Physics and finishes it another 7 are carried on towards Gunpowder and with addition of my own research Gunpowder is supposed to be completed as well. I'm saying 'roughly' because the progress is calculated in terms of beakers and not turns but currently this distinction is negligible.
... At least that was what I thought. Somehow I fell short to complete Gunpowder this turn. I'm not sure how this happened. I believed the initial tech cost is what matters and not the reduced one due to knowing other civs who already have discovered it. Probably I was wrong. Anyways, I'll do some investigation work later and will report.

I discovered Physics on turn 2 and renewed RA with Harun.
Start constructing workshops.

Spoiler:



Gunpowder and Acoustics are in and let's have another look at the tech tree:
Spoiler:

Since the techs that can currently be researched are Machinery/Banking/Navigation/Chemistry/Metallurgy the RA median shifts up to Navigation.

Demographics:
Spoiler:

That's the power of RA's. Or overpower should I say.
Only 3 resolved so far and I'm already a leader in literacy.
No one else entered medieval era so I've decided to wait a bit for renewing another RA.

Next turn Banking and Machinery are competed.
Spoiler:



I always make sure to queue up the more expensive tech first and the cheaper one after that. This way I secure the median will not accidentally drop.

One of the scouts finds another Natural wonder. 2 of his brothers are somewhere on the map with only one NW and one CS left to find. So this guy can be dismissed.
Spoiler:
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 11:12 AM   #22
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Gandhi is 35 short to renew our RA.
Spoiler:

M.sc. apparently doesn't help in such complicated math and I sell him 45 gold for 1gpt instead of 35. Renew the agreement.

Tech tree:
Spoiler:

As much as I'd love to get Chemistry and Fertilizer sooner I need Scientific Theory more. For coal and more importantly for public school in the capital. I'll have to fill scientist slot to get final GS in time. I'm not even sure I'll make it though.

Printing Press is discovered on turn 115 with decent overflow carried on to Economics. I have no choice but to sign RA with Hiawatha who is still in the Medieval. The other guys are completely broke.
Spoiler:




Last RA of the first wave finishes Economics and half finishes Navigaton.
Spoiler:

Renewing one with Darius is easy. He's Rockefeller.
Spoiler:


I have already signed 5 RA's in the second wave, 2 left. Non surprisingly with Askia and Washington. Both still in the medieval and both are broke. And so am I.

Heading back my trireme is blocked by Songhai borders.
Spoiler:

AI has such a strange idea about what spots are good for settling...

I gift one scout to Geneva. It's a very little influence but every penny counts. It'll cost me more maintenance to bring him home and disband within my borders.
Spoiler:


Not long after turn his 'brother' mets final CS and soon enough follows his fate.
Spoiler:




Ok, what's going on with our final RA's?
Spoiler:



No good...
None of us has money. And if that's not enough Harun steals Sydney again and becomes pissed with me because of it. If this is not perfect example of how current diplomacy system is I don't know what is.
Spoiler:



He has to pay for that! As much as I hate being creative fund raiser unfortunately I really don't have a choice.

First I approach Washington and buy from him gpt.
Spoiler:

I repeat this procedure till the moment he has 250 .

Then I'm switching all my cities to gold focus. I'm kicking out all scientists, making citizens work every possible commerce tile (that's why I've built few TP's before as usually I don't work them) and even switching production to gold if needed. I didn't capture screens of all five cities but one should be enough to get an idea:
Spoiler:

My gpt raised from -24 to -9 already and this is only after 'reworking' one city. After I take care of all of them the same way I get positive gpt and can sell it for lump sum:

Spoiler:



Now I have 270 in treasury, Washington has 250. The only problem he's in the medieval and I need 100 more gold. I have one cotton but none of the 'moguls' wants it. So I make a deal with America:
Spoiler:


And what happens two turns later?
Spoiler:

Have to admit, it stings. But it's not uncommon. I suck it up and move on.

Put cities back to their normal focus, I had a very hard time to balance between food, production and money. I've bough a lot of gpt lately so it helped, however since my pockets are literally empty not falling into loosing beakers was far from trivial. Had to compromise on hammers here and there. And I have one more RA to sing with a partner who is just as pathetic as I am.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 12:48 PM   #23
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Keep it up! I'm enjoy the storytelling Learning a few things too...
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 01:49 PM   #24
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Glad you like it. I hope my english doesn't ruin the enjoyment.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 01:58 PM   #25
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Inspired by your thread I started a game with Babylon(epic, large with no added civs) as well. Nearly a mirror up to 0 bc/ad. Only thing that slowed me really down was a damn DoW by Japan on ~800ad. Right now at 1400 building Apollo.

Haven't look closely at your screens so I don't get spoiled, will play that map next I think.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 02:39 PM   #26
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Babylon should be even stronger than Siam. Good luck!

Frankly, you've inspired me to play for culture. Think I'm going for Aztecs next as I haven't played a full game with them yet.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 03:16 PM   #27
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Aztecs are great for warmongering on a big continent. Their UU ability is so strong, if you can pass it over to a bunch of swordman ... I also used Honor when I did a conquest game with them. Worked really good.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 03:58 PM   #28
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In the meanwhile Askia decides to solve his financial trouble by other means. Not enough he's screwing me by being broke, now he attacks my ally Sydney.
Spoiler:

With plenty manducavs even AI can break it down.

Asked him what he wants to leave it alone:
Spoiler:


Although he feels bad about it. Hypocrite.
Spoiler:

Whatever...

Lost few beakers after all. 8 maybe. Got too lazy to micromanage. Some deals would expire soon enough and I'll get some cash.
The good news another scientist was born:
Spoiler:

Another mouth to feed.

I could forgive Askia his betrayal had he had some money. Nope.
Spoiler:


To avoid loosing more beakers I assign merchant in capital.
Spoiler:


At least Harun came to his senses and turned friendly again.
Spoiler:


Turn 122 - Navigation is in. Working on Scientific Theory.
Hiawatha in the Renaissance. Oh, well... The only thing I care about is that I can resell pearls and sign a final RA.
Spoiler:

Got happiness back, but cannot afford it. Not that I really need it with such terrific growth rate.

The bad part - Sydney is going down. Expected that but hope never dies.
Spoiler:


Sell pearls to Darius and buy 5gpt + OB from Askia.
Spoiler:




His gpt is zero now so I have to gift him another 24 to make it 250.
Spoiler:



I still don't have enough. He hit Renaissance recently, so all I need is another 200 bucks.

You know the drill...
You also know that that's why we had the GFC, right? Just sayin...
Don't try this at home kids.

I tweak cities to gold focus and go begging again:
Spoiler:


And finally!..
Spoiler:


Thanks to a non profitable deal my trireme can get home now.
Spoiler:


As for global new: Harun against Washington round #2:
Spoiler:
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Old Apr 14, 2012, 07:22 AM   #29
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wow, great job. keep it up
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 12:57 AM   #30
S.K. Ren
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I am beyond impressed. I recently just attempted a same setup nix the sub 200 goal and aiming for a Steal Bomber rush and was doing terribly I got to turn 200 and wasn't even in the Industrial Age yet.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 07:20 AM   #31
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Standard speed? It's dangerous. AI launches around 270 with ease. But if you're sitting on bunch of GS I'd put my money on you. Just as RA's SB are ridiculously OP'ed. Having enough of them you wipe out the continent in 10 turns.

I'm loaded with work after holidays. No play time for the next few days.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 12:41 PM   #32
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I'm loaded with work after holidays. No play time for the next few days.
Don't they know that you're famous on the internets!? Forget work!
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 01:21 PM   #33
S.K. Ren
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Ok, supposing you were not going for the sub 200, how would you deal with early DoWs? I assume with the sub 200 goal you would just reroll. I often find myself bogged down with that 1 AI that just can't get a clue. I get archers, and swordies if I can but if I get too big of an army then my economy tanks conversely too little and that rat bastard wants 99% of my empire in a peace deal.

Edit: Also It looks like you took 2 GEs from Liberty/HS (Unless I'm blind) but you've only spent one of them on the PT (Again, unless I'm blind ), what did you do with the other one (If it even exists)

Last edited by S.K. Ren; Apr 15, 2012 at 05:25 PM.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 07:15 PM   #34
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Don't they know that you're famous on the internets!? Forget work!
They are clueless. Clueless and evil. They don't care about my internet addiction at all.

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Originally Posted by S.K. Ren View Post
Ok, supposing you were not going for the sub 200, how would you deal with early DoWs? I assume with the sub 200 goal you would just reroll. I often find myself bogged down with that 1 AI that just can't get a clue. I get archers, and swordies if I can but if I get too big of an army then my economy tanks conversely too little and that rat bastard wants 99% of my empire in a peace deal.
On this map I saw there is no immediate threat so I could tech AH, Philosophy, Sailing and all other goodies before IW. I also got Archery from ruin. My position was relatively secure. Otherwise I'd go straight for iron, prebuild warriors wherever I can and hope for the best. With more player friendly terrain (rivers) I'd build few warriors right away and upgrade them to reduce the chances of early DoW. At least from my limited experience, if you have a semi-decent army it may not occur at all. Once I sat for 150 turns next to Mongol border with 4 swords and an archer waiting for that DoW. Never happened. Early on I wasn't the weakest, I guess, he bullied someone else, and then he just fell in love with me. Go figure.
There are little things you can do to minimize the damage, of course, like selling the lux and gpt to the neighbor that is most likely to DoW you soon. However peaceful play like this still requires a portion of luck, IMO. I was whooped more than once by early (under 35) DoWs on immortal and definitely on deity. Something is not very probable when you prepare for a rush yourself.

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Edit: Also It looks like you took 2 GEs from Liberty/HS (Unless I'm blind) but you've only spent one of them on the PT (Again, unless I'm blind ), what did you do with the other one (If it even exists)
Rushed ND. First spoiler in post #14. I really hope that wasn't a mistake.
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Old Apr 15, 2012, 10:02 PM   #35
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AH. I saw rush and thought something else. To me a Rush is to prioritize over everything else, particularly when hard buildings. 'Rush build' on the other hand as its own term to me indicates a GE. It was my own silly terms and definitions that had me confused. Finally I would say you didn't make a mistake as Happiness lets you do two things, build healthy cities and sell your Lux. I Usually go for 1 GE and a GS but recently I find that I have 1 extra GS when I get to the end so either I need to count better or start taking a second GE And really, there is nothing more saddening than having 4-5 half dead cities 200 turns in because you didn't have enough happiness to grow them.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 02:54 AM   #36
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I launched at 1714 in my game. You should be alot faster, because I used 2 GS to get atomic bombs .

Also your start position is pretty damn awesome. Maybe not ressource wise, but you are safe from any war with this choke point.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:00 AM   #37
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AH. I saw rush and thought something else. To me a Rush is to prioritize over everything else, particularly when hard buildings. 'Rush build' on the other hand as its own term to me indicates a GE. It was my own silly terms and definitions that had me confused.
Actually, you're right. It should be 'rush build'/'rush buy' and not just 'rush', unless I'm rushing a neighbor. But many times I skip one of the words due to my laziness and assume everybody understands me anyway. Civ4 'whip' was a lot simpler.

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Finally I would say you didn't make a mistake as Happiness lets you do two things, build healthy cities and sell your Lux. I Usually go for 1 GE and a GS but recently I find that I have 1 extra GS when I get to the end so either I need to count better or start taking a second GE And really, there is nothing more saddening than having 4-5 half dead cities 200 turns in because you didn't have enough happiness to grow them.
I'm not convinced yet. My cities are half dead because of the terrain and the way I'm treating them. As I stated in my first post I'm bad at growing tall cities. I'll try to address this issue in the next play session, otherwise even if I do reach my tech goal in time these pathetic little cities won't be able to build the parts. Besides, lack of rivers forced me to give up on happiness completely. Something that also has to change. I could, of course, get into even deeper financial deficit but eventually it would hurt bpt. So before Fertilizer I thought happiness can wait. As for scientist... It's the biggest fear of mine. If eventually I come one short I'll kick myself in the head for a long time. I'll have to do some math before I take next SP. I'd love to take Freedom opener but I'm not sure it will allow me to get to Scientific Revolution in time. It's a very new situation to me. We'll see.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:07 AM   #38
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I launched at 1714 in my game. You should be alot faster, because I used 2 GS to get atomic bombs .
Science victory Realyn style! I would be very surprised if things were different.

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Also your start position is pretty damn awesome. Maybe not ressource wise, but you are safe from any war with this choke point.
Yeah, that's true. Had it been a bit easier terrain, I could say it's cheating map.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 11:52 AM   #39
S.K. Ren
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I have a suggestion: If/when you do another let's play, do it on the Ring map. Its interesting how alliances form not to mention if you set the Isthmus setting to 2 hexes its very easy to defend
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 12:46 PM   #40
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I'm not sure it'll be another one anytime soon, but that's an interesting suggestion. Never played a ring map before although I like inland sea. Anyways, I'm too tired of this love fest. I need some blooood. Is ring good for a bloodbath?
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