Deity - Skilldorado - what now?

[JeanBaptiste]

t47: India eliminated. Dehli had both the GW and SoZ. It's pretty much laid out now for a conquering spree.

Not sure if I will continue from here but if I did I'd take out Persia next. I'm so powerful there is no reason to stop.

Early finish times of all kind of VCs are plausible here. I rarely play on quick but if this was standard I could def. see sub-t200 science and dom victories here.

Spoiler:

[Tabarnak]

Great job. You have completely eliminated Ghandi but i think the warmonger penalty will affect Persia only unless you saw some other civs yet?

[JeanBaptiste]

Originally Posted by Tabarnak

Great job. You have completely eliminated Ghandi but i think the warmonger penalty will affect Persia only unless you saw some other civs yet?

Thanks! Haven't met any other civs and you are right, the negative diplo points for eliminating an AI or CS only applies for civs that you have already met not for future ones. This is one of the good things with playing on continents. You can go crazy warmongering early on and have peaceful friendly relations with AIs on the other continent later.

[wannabewarlord]

Jean Baptiste, congrats good stuff! Thanks for trying "my" game.

Before I read your posts I actually also had a stab at it again this afternoon. I went to war super early (something I am not used to, so I had to really force myself) and also managed to eliminate the Inca. Not as early as you I think but I eventually did. I am now at turn 78 and Ghandi still has his capital but I am wearing him down. I am not sure how u managed to do this by turn 47 though. That's impressive.

I guess the start really had everything laid out for domination, I foolishly still cling to science and prioritized education over steel. Probably not the best play. I will push on and see if I can actually win this. I am just afraid that while warring on my continent there will be a runaway on the other continent. We shall see

[callan]

Remember that to win the game via domination you don't have to wipe out runaway AI's entirely, you just need to take their capital, preferably last if they are truly mighty, since then you won't have to hold it.

[JeanBaptiste]

Had to see how this would end.

t121: Persia eliminated.

This was a tougher one. Darius first DoWed me, just slightly after I took out India. Put a lot of pressure on him but didn't take any cities. He then gave me all gold and gpt he had, which was too good to refuse. By giving him peace he got the opportunity to rebuild and upgrade his army. He also built the Kremlin.
2nd DoW was mine (after the peace deal ended) and at this point he slightly had the upper hand. First played it a little bit defensive but went all-in after upgrading to rifles and cannons. Lost a lot of units, especially knights and lancers (great for distraction but they die fast). After I took Persepolis it was more or less over. I had the Kremlin and GW so

I decided pretty early to go for a science victory which was desired in the OP. So after a late HS-PT-ND slingshot I annexed all of my Inca and India cities and built courthouses and universities to commence GS farming. At this point I have 11 GS and waiting for 3-4 more. Went rationalism so will have 2 free techs as well. I think I have 18 techs left in total. Realised that this was a small map so not a lot of RA partners unfortunately. Especially after I killed half of them Don't know what is a really good time on Quick for a science victory, could someone tell me?

So why didn't I leave Darius with one city and keep him as a potential RA partner? He had more or less the only coal on my continent, in his last city! I'm going to need a lot for factories when building spaceship parts. Don't want to rely on the other AI's resources. So bye bye Darius. I'm really going against my normal advise by killing all AI.

Spoiler:

[JeanBaptiste]

Originally Posted by wannabewarlord

Jean Baptiste, congrats good stuff! Thanks for trying "my" game.

Before I read your posts I actually also had a stab at it again this afternoon. I went to war super early (something I am not used to, so I had to really force myself) and also managed to eliminate the Inca. Not as early as you I think but I eventually did. I am now at turn 78 and Ghandi still has his capital but I am wearing him down. I am not sure how u managed to do this by turn 47 though. That's impressive.

I guess the start really had everything laid out for domination, I foolishly still cling to science and prioritized education over steel. Probably not the best play. I will push on and see if I can actually win this. I am just afraid that while warring on my continent there will be a runaway on the other continent. We shall see

I went for education before steel as well. Mainly because I wanted to go for an early science victory. An early university in Babylon will let you cruise though through steel, machinery and all the necessary military techs. So if you can play defensive for some time I think it's wiser to take that route first. On quick it goes so fast as well, 5-6 turns for steel etc.

I realised that you played on a small map. So I don't think you have to worry about the other continent. If and after you take out Persia YOU will be the runaway civ!

It's quite weird to play on quick when you're so used to standard (and sometimes epic). You're not quite sure how fast your units will be obsolete or how good your research pace is.

[Tabarnak]

Originally Posted by JeanBaptiste

Don't know what is a really good time on Quick for a science victory, could someone tell me?

What is your time? Just do (QUICK time)x 1.5 for standard speed. RAs are less powerful at this speed(25 turns instead of 20 for a real adjust) but compensated by a little faster culture and food raising.

From my experience, you should cut 10-12 turns when converted to standard speed to get a more real view because fights are harder, exploration is way shorter and RAs are longer at quick speed. You lose ''occasions'' of making more earlier. For example, if i finish at 150 turns :

150 x 1.5= 225-10= approx. 215 turns for standard.

[JeanBaptiste]

Originally Posted by Tabarnak

What is your time? Just do (QUICK time)x 1.5 for standard speed. RAs are less powerful at this speed(25 turns instead of 20 for a real adjust) but compensated by a little faster culture and food raising.

From my experience, you should cut 10-12 turns when converted to standard speed to get a more real view because fights are harder, exploration is way shorter and RAs are longer at quick speed. You lose ''occasions'' of making more earlier. For example, if i finish at 150 turns :

150 x 1.5= 225-10= approx. 215 turns for standard.

Thx for the info! I'm at t121 now which would mean ca standard t170 with your formula. Don't think I will be able to pull off a sub-200 on this one. I'll have 14 GS+scientific rev+oxford but only 4 RA's total in the game. It was a small map and I killed half of the AIs.

Actually I kind of regret that I made any RAs at all. In that case it would probably be my best no-RA scientific victory.

[JeanBaptiste]

Feels like I hijacked this thread but it was such a fun game to play and share. I hope the OP doesn't mind

t152: science victory

100% focus on science, food and production after I eliminated Persia. Washington took out China so I lost one RA. In total only 3 RAs in the game. So I'm pretty satisfied with that finish date and it shows how ridiculously powerful Babylons UA is. With Tabarnaks conversion it would mean a ca t215 finish time on standard. I kind of screwed up though and built the oxford before my last RA finished which cost me a few extra turns.

Some advice to the OP, when going for deity science victories play with more civs. You want a lot of RA partners especially when not playing Babylon and Korea. I think small continents, standard size, can be a good map to start with. You have the possibility to go for an early war and make yourself a little puppet-empire on your continent. Then stay peaceful and meet all the other civs and sign RAs like mad.

Spoiler:

[wannabewarlord]

JB: no, no hijacking at all. I am thankful that you took on this game which proves to be very interesting for me I am having fun playing this particular start when usually Deity is a drag for me. I am a solid immortal player but lack in Deity skills, so I learned a lot from this and will definitely play more Deity in the future. Even without skilldorado

I hope to finish this game tonigt and will also post my endgame thoughts and results.

[GamerKG]

A few things to note:

1.) El Dorado is not so OP that you can't beat it. Of course it may seems like a ridiculous advantage, but I am sure you beat enemies with better positions all the time. At the end of the day, it IS your skill that matters, no matter how lucky or unlucky you get.

Especially in multiplayer. If somebody gets El Dorado, everyone else is likely to view them as both OP and a threat, and they have now become a huge target.

2.) Domination is harder on quick because of the rate at which units move compared to the rate at which you build/tech.

3.) I would have bought a worker and a bowman (for defense). If you already had a worker, perhaps a settler? Or multiple bowmen. But then again, I can't beat Deity (I'm an Immortal player) so perhaps you shouldn't take my advice on this.

[iggymnrr]

He built the Colossus in Cusco while he was under total siege. Why? Idiot AI

Perhaps he remembered all the prior failed attempts. Idiot human.

[wannabewarlord]

Argh, this game drives me nuts

I have the hardest time getting Persia. He's not much stronger than me, but he has enough CS allies to make it difficult for me.

On top of this, Washington settles a city in the midst of my empire. I was like, WTF? To add insult to injury, Wu Zeitan is also breathing down my neck on the verge of DOWing me. Not that she's much of a threat (overseas and all), but I can't RA or trade luxes with her.

I guess I am too defensive against Persia, as for every wave I kill, he brings twice as much units in the next (rush bought, most probably). My artillery makes quick work of them, but cannot advance, as they get swarmed by units, so I am somewhat stuck. I am debating resorting to bulbing early and get Mech Infs out (actually I tried that in one variation already and lo and behold the CS were pulling Mechs out of their asses as well - is this normal? Do CSs adapt to the most advanced units?).

I will reload and try again as I really want this to work and I am actually in a good position, having eliminated Inca and Ghandi completely. If only I could make Persia my biatch

Edit: Jean Baptiste, any pointers on how you went about against Persia? You also said you lost lots of units (yeah, I understand that) but did you go for Susa first and how did you deal with all the CS allies that DOWed you (if that happened in your game)?

[JeanBaptiste]

Originally Posted by wannabewarlord

Jean Baptiste, any pointers on how you went about against Persia? You also said you lost lots of units (yeah, I understand that) but did you go for Susa first and how did you deal with all the CS allies that DOWed you (if that happened in your game)?

Yeah it was messy. I went for Persepolis first since it had the Kremlin (always target that city first if possible). My main strategy was to get 6-8 cannons in position, pound away at the city and always have them defended. It took some time and most of my first troop of riflemen got slaughtered (kremlin+oligarchy is nasty). So I had a constant wave of lancers and knights sent in (rush bought and all my cities on unit production). This created enough distraction and defense for my key units to get a successful outcome. As said before, after Persepolis was taken it was more or less over.

With artillery I think the tactics can be a little bit more refined. In my case it was more or less similar to AI suicide attacks. But it worked! I think on quick you can be less careful with your units (except siege , you want those heavily promoted), insta-heal a lot and make sure you take out as many enemy units as possible.

Regarding the CS issue. I was allied to the ones that were my closest neighbors. The CS north of Persepolis was Persian but they didn't create any danger until after I had a border with them.

[wannabewarlord]

Originally Posted by JeanBaptiste

Regarding the CS issue. I was allied to the ones that were my closest neighbors. The CS north of Persepolis was Persian but they didn't create any danger until after I had a border with them.

I have no money for them. I spend all on upgrading/rush buying

[JeanBaptiste]

Is Persia at any point willing to give you a good peace deal? If so, take it and ally those CSs that causes problems. He gave me like 1500 gold and 100gpt from the first war, which gave a nice boost to my economy.