War Weariness

Fiddlin Nero · Apr 20, 2012, 10:17 AM

Thinking back over playing this game and my very real War Weariness. I used to race as quickly as possible to achieve some goal I had set for starting that war, there was a very definite waning of my enthusiasm once I had reached my goal and many times well before. Recently I backed off and limited my turn goals to no more than one city conquered, that was an improvement. In my current game I am multitasking more, conquering some city or small group of cities and then going off to do some worker management.

Wondering about other peoples experience with waning enthusiasm for the fight and the pace of their campaigns. Do you mix in other tasks or is it 100% focused on fighting the war?

Theov · Apr 21, 2012, 10:34 AM

All wars are part of a bigger picture.
I only play to win a conquest or domination victory. So every war is with the goal of hurting the opponent where it hurts most or to grab something than benefits my empire the most.
I'd go after a capital, an island, or luxuries or just land to expand. But I make sure that during the war, the empire is just growing at it's normal rate and ready to take advantage of the new land.

Raliuven · Apr 23, 2012, 11:25 AM

It really depends on the map. If the size is standard or smaller, I will usually play by seperating domestic, foreign/trade, war actions and final approval of all production. Of course these can and do intermingle, but I try to comparmentalize them so I don't miss anything. For example, laying a new road is usually a domestic task but may sometimes be trumped by laying a city/rail to a new attack location.

On bigger maps I tend to do the same thing but in regions. So in Region 1 I do my war and domestic tasks then I move to Region 2, etc. In this case, Foreign Policy and final approval for builds usually are done at the end of all Regions. I will also do this if I am fighting two very distinct battle ground (Western & Eastern front, for example) especially before I have rails. Likewise, Regions are usually distinct areas that do not allow for a great number of troop transfers (limited by sea transports or airports for example, or before rails).

CommandoBob · Apr 23, 2012, 12:23 PM

This applies mostly after Railroads are available. I do this in a modified form until then.

Bring home the wounded, when possible. Those that move only on rails will be space-barred to heal in a city with a barracks (generally the capital). Sometimes they stay where they are in expectation of future conquering and future crowd control. Units with just one hit point are stacked and fortified but not space-barred. They might be needed. Units that are yellow and red get healed.
Bring home the healthy with full movement and sort them by unit types. Fortify them. Elites are seperated out into two stacks, promoted and unpromoted. This would include any combat railing workers. Sometimes it will include all workers; sometimes not.
Bring home the healthy with limited movement and sort them by unit types and fortify them, too, but into seperate stacks from those with full movement. These elites would have their own stack.
By now I have set up a contiental rally point. At some point during the turn these guys will just show up. Sort the newbies by unit types into the proper stacks of full movement units.
During this time I may have picked off some interesting stragglers and loners but overall very little warfare has been done. Now that I know what units I have available I can plan in detail what I want to do this turn.
(I burned myself too many by attacking with local units and then having to search for a unit to trample down that last 1/4 Spear! )
Attack! Attack! Attack! Fish for Leaders! Attack!
Stablize the front lines. Units wounded but still with movement will be used to crush rebellions. Units with less than full movement that were not used in attacks now have a purpose. Promoted Elites will sometimes be used for this purpose, too. Lightly wounded might get this task, depending on the road situation.
If I haven't done so before, save the game.
Now I go through and tend to city needs, rushing slaves where I can, fiddling with the geek count and such. Sometimes I will have a stack of workers ready to road/rail/irrigate as needed when I do this. Other times I will just remember where something needs to be done.
Trading tends to be one of the last things I do, mainly because it is not done every turn.

This is a rough guide of what I tend to do each turn. Hope it helps.

tR1cKy · Apr 24, 2012, 01:13 PM

To avoid suffering too much from war weariness, you need to be quick and effective, and at the same keep the body count as low as possible.

Supposing i'm on a ww-prone government, my strategy is to stockpile units first, then launch a full-scale attack with overwhelming forces. In most cases, the enemy is completely gone before war weariness even begins to have any effect.

vorlon_mi · Apr 24, 2012, 02:57 PM

Right. There is "war weariness", the game mechanic, which you avoid using tips from tR1cKy and others.

Then there is the human feeling of "I'm weary from slogging through this sixteen turn war." Manuver your stack of 20+ artillery into place, bombard the metro, launch 15 sorties by your bombers, bring up reinforcements for your cavs and infantry ... all while being careful not to leave any stragglers that the AI will pick off. Not to mention the logistics of moving 5 transports and their escorts into position for an invasion, and then either 1) going back to get the reinforcements (when invading a larger landmass) or 2) retrieving the victorious forces that are not needed for garrison duty. I realize that this is "the best part" for those who love warmongering, but it can get tedious.

Raliuven · Apr 24, 2012, 03:38 PM

Before rails or if I am hampered by ship chains, I usually move my reinforcements into the area first so I know what I have available. Depending on the size of the map, a ship chain can be very, very draining. I also hate pre-road warfare. Marching my unit one or two tiles at a time towards a rally point is so very painful.

Lord Emsworth · Apr 26, 2012, 03:06 AM

In order to avoid war weariness you should not hasten things. That is amongst the worst things you can do. Be careful and try to avoid things that cause unnecessary weariness. You can be swift in your conquest, if that makes sense, but not hasty.

MarkK · Apr 28, 2012, 01:51 AM

My strategy has been to expand, build, kick-ass, win. So far it's been working.

Fiddlin Nero · Apr 28, 2012, 03:39 PM

Hasty, just what does it mean to be hasty? Gee, how about setting a goal that can't be accomplished without waiting for units to be healed. Maybe conquering something and not being able to hold it or secure the new borders. Thanks Emsworth, I have a new appreciation for the word 'hasty.' Probably very close to the heart of my issues around my enthusiasm for war turning into weariness.

bigFRANK · Apr 30, 2012, 04:57 AM

Brisk war, low casualties with specified results.

My last game start a war with the Ottomans as I have just seen a rubber resource (didn’t have any rubber at this time) right on the coast inside there cultural borders but 2 squares from the nearest town; dispatch my naval force with a settler and a few guerillas check that when they arrive off the coast the ottomans are willing to talk and land them right on the rubber. Watch the Ottomans mobilize a SOD to come and kick me off, plant the city, build a harbor (cash rushed next round) and immediately sue for peace. Job Jobbed and I had the rubber I needed to start building tanks and bombers.

Same game the Greeks attacked me across a shared border there obsolete (medieval infantry mostly) units failing to make much impact against my late industrial age armed forces. My reply was simple and devastating there civ all but fell in one turn with workers railroading to the borders of there territory for the next city to be hit and then so on and again, the Greeks where offered peace terms ASAP as I didn’t fancy a 20 turn march through the jungles to reach there far distant outposts.

Vaney168 · May 29, 2012, 01:20 PM

If I’m right the war weariness is affected by the government type? Is it worse under Democracy or Republic?

Fiddlin Nero · May 29, 2012, 03:39 PM

In Democracy the corruption gets to be crippling, you can put it off a little while by not leaving any units in enemy territory in-between turns. In Republic it can be dealt with for quite a while.

So, does your enthusiasm wane for battle? Like the seasons, where I get tired of hot summers and look forward to winter and eventually get tired of the cold and look forward to the summer, do you crave peace during war and war during peace?

Vaney168 · May 29, 2012, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddlin Nero

In Democracy the corruption gets to be crippling, you can put it off a little while by not leaving any units in enemy territory in-between turns. In Republic it can be dealt with for quite a while.

So, does your enthusiasm wane for battle? Like the seasons, where I get tired of hot summers and look forward to winter and eventually get tired of the cold and look forward to the summer, do you crave peace during war and war during peace?

When I do play I tend to go for a Republic government, never bother changing to Democracy, is there any advantages to it over Republic? I guess Republic is good for the peaceful builder, which I tend to be but can last longer in wars if I get stuck in one

Fiddlin Nero · May 30, 2012, 02:15 PM

There's less Corruption in Democracy. In PTW workers get 100% bump while I understand it is only 50% in C3C.

Theov · May 30, 2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaney168

When I do play I tend to go for a Republic government, never bother changing to Democracy, is there any advantages to it over Republic? I guess Republic is good for the peaceful builder, which I tend to be but can last longer in wars if I get stuck in one

Check out the link in my sig for more info.
In summary, if you're planning to stay in peace, go Demo. With that, I mean in Demo you can't drop too many nukes

Sucks, right?
I put the things that are the same in bold and the things that are different in cursive.

Republic
A.k.a.: Repo
For republics big enough to support their military; fighting short succesful wars. Long wars will cost you to keep your population happy.
Most popular government because of the commerce bonus, the low WW and because there's less corruption than under Monarchy and Despotism.

Worker Efficiency: 100%
Hurry Method:Pay citizens
Corruption: Nuisance
War Weariness: Low
Draft Rate: 1
Military Police Limit: 0
Unit Support Town/City/Metro: 1/3/4
Notes: Military over the cap cost 2 gpt.
Adds 1 commerce to any tile already producing at least 1 = the commerce bonus.
(Also in Democracy)

Democracy
A.k.a.: Demo
For peaceful builders, not planning to be at war anytime soon. Requires good diplomatic skills to stay out of war.

Worker Efficiency: 150%
Hurry Method: Pay citizens
Corruption: Minimal
War Weariness: High
Draft Rate: 1
Military Police Limit: 0
Unit Support Town/City/Metro: 0/0/0
Notes: Cities immune from propaganda.
Adds 1 commerce to any tile already producing at least 1 = the commerce bonus.

Vaney168 · May 30, 2012, 08:25 PM

Thanks that really clears that up, I know I should stick to Democracy if I want to be a peaceful builder and Republic for when I want to win short wars

Apr 20, 2012, 10:17 AM	#1
Fiddlin Nero Prince Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: D Posts: 416	War Weariness Thinking back over playing this game and my very real War Weariness. I used to race as quickly as possible to achieve some goal I had set for starting that war, there was a very definite waning of my enthusiasm once I had reached my goal and many times well before. Recently I backed off and limited my turn goals to no more than one city conquered, that was an improvement. In my current game I am multitasking more, conquering some city or small group of cities and then going off to do some worker management. Wondering about other peoples experience with waning enthusiasm for the fight and the pace of their campaigns. Do you mix in other tasks or is it 100% focused on fighting the war?

Apr 21, 2012, 10:34 AM	#2
Theov Emperor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,202	All wars are part of a bigger picture. I only play to win a conquest or domination victory. So every war is with the goal of hurting the opponent where it hurts most or to grab something than benefits my empire the most. I'd go after a capital, an island, or luxuries or just land to expand. But I make sure that during the war, the empire is just growing at it's normal rate and ready to take advantage of the new land. __________________ A Guide to the Governments of Civ3 Complete I still play Civ 1.

Apr 23, 2012, 11:25 AM	#3
Raliuven Emperor Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,428	It really depends on the map. If the size is standard or smaller, I will usually play by seperating domestic, foreign/trade, war actions and final approval of all production. Of course these can and do intermingle, but I try to comparmentalize them so I don't miss anything. For example, laying a new road is usually a domestic task but may sometimes be trumped by laying a city/rail to a new attack location. On bigger maps I tend to do the same thing but in regions. So in Region 1 I do my war and domestic tasks then I move to Region 2, etc. In this case, Foreign Policy and final approval for builds usually are done at the end of all Regions. I will also do this if I am fighting two very distinct battle ground (Western & Eastern front, for example) especially before I have rails. Likewise, Regions are usually distinct areas that do not allow for a great number of troop transfers (limited by sea transports or airports for example, or before rails). __________________ We'll do it. What is it? Reduce, Recycle, Reanimate. Sticks should be outlawed. When was the last time poking something with a stick ended well?

Apr 23, 2012, 12:23 PM	#4
CommandoBob AbstractArt Join Date: May 2005 Location: Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones Posts: 7,975	Personal War Weariness This applies mostly after Railroads are available. I do this in a modified form until then. Bring home the wounded, when possible. Those that move only on rails will be space-barred to heal in a city with a barracks (generally the capital). Sometimes they stay where they are in expectation of future conquering and future crowd control. Units with just one hit point are stacked and fortified but not space-barred. They might be needed. Units that are yellow and red get healed. Bring home the healthy with full movement and sort them by unit types. Fortify them. Elites are seperated out into two stacks, promoted and unpromoted. This would include any combat railing workers. Sometimes it will include all workers; sometimes not. Bring home the healthy with limited movement and sort them by unit types and fortify them, too, but into seperate stacks from those with full movement. These elites would have their own stack. By now I have set up a contiental rally point. At some point during the turn these guys will just show up. Sort the newbies by unit types into the proper stacks of full movement units. During this time I may have picked off some interesting stragglers and loners but overall very little warfare has been done. Now that I know what units I have available I can plan in detail what I want to do this turn. (I burned myself too many by attacking with local units and then having to search for a unit to trample down that last 1/4 Spear! ) Attack! Attack! Attack! Fish for Leaders! Attack! Stablize the front lines. Units wounded but still with movement will be used to crush rebellions. Units with less than full movement that were not used in attacks now have a purpose. Promoted Elites will sometimes be used for this purpose, too. Lightly wounded might get this task, depending on the road situation. If I haven't done so before, save the game. Now I go through and tend to city needs, rushing slaves where I can, fiddling with the geek count and such. Sometimes I will have a stack of workers ready to road/rail/irrigate as needed when I do this. Other times I will just remember where something needs to be done. Trading tends to be one of the last things I do, mainly because it is not done every turn. This is a rough guide of what I tend to do each turn. Hope it helps. __________________ There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots! ~ A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code. avatar by Mistfit

Apr 24, 2012, 01:13 PM	#5
tR1cKy taking over the world Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Pisae, Roman Empire Posts: 1,786	To avoid suffering too much from war weariness, you need to be quick and effective, and at the same keep the body count as low as possible. Supposing i'm on a ww-prone government, my strategy is to stockpile units first, then launch a full-scale attack with overwhelming forces. In most cases, the enemy is completely gone before war weariness even begins to have any effect. __________________ Save the mongols: reverse assimilation (active) - Rome Deity + UGLY start: my biggest challenge ever - The Rising Sun: Japanese Power Play Tech cost formula - Palace jump formula

Apr 24, 2012, 02:57 PM	#6
vorlon_mi Prince Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chelsea, MI Posts: 521	Right. There is "war weariness", the game mechanic, which you avoid using tips from tR1cKy and others. Then there is the human feeling of "I'm weary from slogging through this sixteen turn war." Manuver your stack of 20+ artillery into place, bombard the metro, launch 15 sorties by your bombers, bring up reinforcements for your cavs and infantry ... all while being careful not to leave any stragglers that the AI will pick off. Not to mention the logistics of moving 5 transports and their escorts into position for an invasion, and then either 1) going back to get the reinforcements (when invading a larger landmass) or 2) retrieving the victorious forces that are not needed for garrison duty. I realize that this is "the best part" for those who love warmongering, but it can get tedious. __________________ "To be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others." - Nelson Mandela

Apr 24, 2012, 03:38 PM	#7
Raliuven Emperor Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,428	Before rails or if I am hampered by ship chains, I usually move my reinforcements into the area first so I know what I have available. Depending on the size of the map, a ship chain can be very, very draining. I also hate pre-road warfare. Marching my unit one or two tiles at a time towards a rally point is so very painful. __________________ We'll do it. What is it? Reduce, Recycle, Reanimate. Sticks should be outlawed. When was the last time poking something with a stick ended well?

Apr 26, 2012, 03:06 AM	#8
Lord Emsworth Emperor Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On a shipchain Posts: 1,920	In order to avoid war weariness you should not hasten things. That is amongst the worst things you can do. Be careful and try to avoid things that cause unnecessary weariness. You can be swift in your conquest, if that makes sense, but not hasty.

Apr 28, 2012, 01:51 AM	#9
MarkK Chieftain Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 61	My strategy has been to expand, build, kick-ass, win. So far it's been working.

Apr 28, 2012, 03:39 PM	#10
Fiddlin Nero Prince Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: D Posts: 416	Hasty, just what does it mean to be hasty? Gee, how about setting a goal that can't be accomplished without waiting for units to be healed. Maybe conquering something and not being able to hold it or secure the new borders. Thanks Emsworth, I have a new appreciation for the word 'hasty.' Probably very close to the heart of my issues around my enthusiasm for war turning into weariness.

Apr 30, 2012, 04:57 AM	#11
bigFRANK Warlord Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In Bed Posts: 215	Brisk war, low casualties with specified results. My last game start a war with the Ottomans as I have just seen a rubber resource (didn’t have any rubber at this time) right on the coast inside there cultural borders but 2 squares from the nearest town; dispatch my naval force with a settler and a few guerillas check that when they arrive off the coast the ottomans are willing to talk and land them right on the rubber. Watch the Ottomans mobilize a SOD to come and kick me off, plant the city, build a harbor (cash rushed next round) and immediately sue for peace. Job Jobbed and I had the rubber I needed to start building tanks and bombers. Same game the Greeks attacked me across a shared border there obsolete (medieval infantry mostly) units failing to make much impact against my late industrial age armed forces. My reply was simple and devastating there civ all but fell in one turn with workers railroading to the borders of there territory for the next city to be hit and then so on and again, the Greeks where offered peace terms ASAP as I didn’t fancy a 20 turn march through the jungles to reach there far distant outposts.

May 29, 2012, 01:20 PM	#12
Vaney168 Warlord Join Date: May 2012 Location: Backyard Posts: 125	If I’m right the war weariness is affected by the government type? Is it worse under Democracy or Republic?

May 29, 2012, 03:39 PM	#13
Fiddlin Nero Prince Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: D Posts: 416	In Democracy the corruption gets to be crippling, you can put it off a little while by not leaving any units in enemy territory in-between turns. In Republic it can be dealt with for quite a while. So, does your enthusiasm wane for battle? Like the seasons, where I get tired of hot summers and look forward to winter and eventually get tired of the cold and look forward to the summer, do you crave peace during war and war during peace?

May 30, 2012, 02:15 PM	#15
Fiddlin Nero Prince Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: D Posts: 416	There's less Corruption in Democracy. In PTW workers get 100% bump while I understand it is only 50% in C3C.

May 30, 2012, 08:25 PM	#17
Vaney168 Warlord Join Date: May 2012 Location: Backyard Posts: 125	Thanks that really clears that up, I know I should stick to Democracy if I want to be a peaceful builder and Republic for when I want to win short wars

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. This site is copyright © Civilization Fanatics' Center.
Support CFC: Amazon.com \| Amazon UK \| Amazon DE \| Amazon CA \| Amazon FR