TETurkhan Test of Time (Map & Mod)

[B-29 Bomber]

TET sir, you had me at 362x362. This has been my Promised Land, my Holy Grail. I have been wanting an Earth Map at that size for months. I have always loved playing TETurkhan: Test of Time scenario that was included in civ 3: Complete Edition. I can't wait to create a whole host of scenarios on this map. A couple issues off the top of my head is that there should be an iron in England(The reason why the Industrial Revolution flourished in England is because it had the resources, which included Iron and Coal) another issue is that there should be more Oil in North America. Oil has been discovered in Montana, Texas, Pennsylvania, throughout the Rockies, and in a good deal of other locations. I plan to look over the whole map and document every problem I see and report back to the thread.

[Gojira54]

Question for anyone who has played the 256x256 TET Map - how far do you get before hit the 512 city limit? Has anyone hit that on the 256 map?

[Maimonides]

Originally Posted by Gojira54

Question for anyone who has played the 256x256 TET Map - how far do you get before hit the 512 city limit? Has anyone hit that on the 256 map?

Yeah.

It's been a while since I played them, but the problem with big earth maps like this & El Mency's is that the AI fills the Siberian tundra with useless cities. Then they do the same with northern Canada &, eventually, Greenland. They also plant useless cities in the Sahara desert. The Australian desert isn't much of a problem as it takes the AI a while to get there. You end up with Roman, Greek, French cities all over Siberia, Aztec & Inca cities all over northern Canada, etc. The Zulu get way to powerful because they have most of Africa to easily expand into. It's all very unhistorical & the city limit makes it hard to put historical cities in proper places.

I used to keep a SOD in Siberia just to raze stupid AI cities to clear up slots for me to found legitimate ones. Another fix I used was to disallow founding cities in tundra & desert with the editor, but there's allot of tundra forest in Siberia & northern Canada & I didn't want to disallow cities on forest terrain.

[Gojira54]

OK, so assuming I trim the map so that the ice caps are out, and make the tundra and desert terrains mostly uninhabitable, how populated would the map get prior to hitting the limit? I am talking about the 256 map, not the 362, which trust me I KNOW will hit the city limit too early.

To address the problems you've already hit, do exactly what I've said. Use the MapTweaker utility to chop off the useless tundra at the poles, then either make some terrains unsettlable or what I prefer to do is make them so inhospitable that a city will not survive on it unless it has lush terrain or resources in the initial city limits. That way desert and tundra cities are rare and only exist next to both fresh water and food resources. Same with marshes and mountains and volcanoes. Make volcanoes erupt often to keep cities away from them, make tundra\desert\marshes\volcanoes cause disease. Increase the food needed to grow... There is a lot you can do to restrict the population boom.

[Ferrouswheel]

Originally Posted by Gojira54

Question for anyone who has played the 256x256 TET Map - how far do you get before hit the 512 city limit? Has anyone hit that on the 256 map?

Hey sorry for bringing back an old thread buttt, i cant build any more cities? why is that??

[timerover51]

Originally Posted by Ferrouswheel

Hey sorry for bringing back an old thread buttt, i cant build any more cities? why is that??

Post a save so that we can see your game, but most likely if you are playing with all of the civilizations active, you have run into the 512 city limit.

[Ferrouswheel]

Originally Posted by timerover51

Post a save so that we can see your game, but most likely if you are playing with all of the civilizations active, you have run into the 512 city limit.

WHAT??? 512 city limit??? what can i do to alleviate this problem?

[timerover51]

Originally Posted by Ferrouswheel

WHAT??? 512 city limit??? what can i do to alleviate this problem?

I believe that there is a patch for the problem, so you might want to search the main body of the Creation and Customization forum for it. I think that it was mentioned not that long ago.

[Virote_Considon]

It'll be in this thread.

[timerover51]

Originally Posted by B-29 Bomber

TET sir, you had me at 362x362. This has been my Promised Land, my Holy Grail. I have been wanting an Earth Map at that size for months. I have always loved playing TETurkhan: Test of Time scenario that was included in civ 3: Complete Edition. I can't wait to create a whole host of scenarios on this map. A couple issues off the top of my head is that there should be an iron in England(The reason why the Industrial Revolution flourished in England is because it had the resources, which included Iron and Coal) another issue is that there should be more Oil in North America. Oil has been discovered in Montana, Texas, Pennsylvania, throughout the Rockies, and in a good deal of other locations. I plan to look over the whole map and document every problem I see and report back to the thread.

You might want to track down the last edition of Mineral Facts and Problems put out by the US Bureau of Mines, which I think might be around 1985 or so, for a detailed view at that point in time of the mineral resources of the US and the World.

As for Oil, is has also be discovered and is presently being produced in Illinois, Indiana, California, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Wyoming, and the North Slope of Alaska. For a more detailed list, including overseas deposits of petroleum, coal, and natural gas, check the US Energy Information Administration website.

http://www.eia.gov/

The Mineral Facts and Problems book, although published in the US, will cover mineral deposits throughout the World.

You can also check the CIA World Factbook as well.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...orld-factbook/

ENJOY!

[cxmwolf]

Perfect! Thanks.

[B-29 Bomber]

Originally Posted by timerover51

You might want to track down the last edition of Mineral Facts and Problems put out by the US Bureau of Mines, which I think might be around 1985 or so, for a detailed view at that point in time of the mineral resources of the US and the World.

As for Oil, is has also be discovered and is presently being produced in Illinois, Indiana, California, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Wyoming, and the North Slope of Alaska. For a more detailed list, including overseas deposits of petroleum, coal, and natural gas, check the US Energy Information Administration website.

http://www.eia.gov/

The Mineral Facts and Problems book, although published in the US, will cover mineral deposits throughout the World.

You can also check the CIA World Factbook as well.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...orld-factbook/

ENJOY!

Thanks!

[nbd]

What civ starts in the best place on the 362 map? It seems China?

[Bengal Tiger]

China has the most cities to start, then India. Alttough personally I didn't like starting off like like that. A medium or small size is good if you like a challenge.

[ReindeerThistle]

Bravo!

I play on the 256 x 256 world map, start locations only, Warlord level. The 1.93 update is fantastic, went well on top of the CIV 3 Complete edition -- in MAC and PC/ Ubuntu running wine. (I own both PC and MAC Disks for CIV 3 complete).

Because it's PTW, it never crashes for me.

In my opinion, it's a drag to be Carthage -- the Berbers are relentless.

Abyssinia is my Favorite, they build War Elephants an Ansar warriors after all, and I am a bit of an Africa-phile.

Love the dinos!
Three things about Carthage, if you want to do an upweave
1. Let them build war elephants.
2. The numidians were actually horsemen (PTW and Conquests didn't get that right)
3. Let them build Balearic slingers as mercenaries, also, instead of "African warriors"

Thanks for a great MOD.

[timerover51]

Sorry for the minor bump, but I was playing the Test of Time version that comes on the Play the World Disk for Civ3 Complete, and discovered that as England, I cannot build any horse units, even though I have several Horses in my Strategic Resource Box. Was this fixed in later version, or is this the first time anyone has reported it?

[timerover51]

Hmm, I downloaded the updated version and finally got it properly opened and moved to the correct location. I assume that it updated correctly, as I am not sure how to determine that. The following are some initial observations, reactions, and questions.

Is there a way to check to see if the 1.93 update was correctly installed? I received a somewhat ambiguous message indicating that it may not have properly installed.

I am not a fan of Sn00py's Terrain, which it appears that the map is using. Is there any way to use the standard Firaxis terrain?

Are both of the Ark of the Covenant and both of the Islamic Relics required? There does not appear to be any difference between them.

Pirate ship at 6 Attack, 6 Defense, and 20 Bonus hit points, compared to the English Man-of-War at 3 Attack, 2 Defense, and no bonus hit points, with the Ironclad at 4 Attack, 4 Defense, and no bonus hit points? I like nasty Barbarians, but this appears to be too much of a good thing. Combat data and costs appear like they are going to take a fair amount of work.

It looks interesting, and I will have to compare it with the old version that I converted to work under Conquests, and see which I like better.

I greatly appreciate all of the work put into this by TeTurkhan, and the ideas which I have gotten from his scenario. Just not sure about this update.

[Wolfshade]

Originally Posted by Timerover

Is there a way to check to see if the 1.93 update was correctly installed? I received a somewhat ambiguous message indicating that it may not have properly installed.

IIRC, 1.93 update was a self-extracting archive. I extracted & installed it manually to be sure all files were copied into correct places.

About the gameplay - I played the mod only 1 time as Germany on the regent difficulty (and enjoyed it, really - difficulty level was set to look into the game and enjoy it). In my game, I destroyed France on turn 10 (it wasn't that hard - I took 2 their cities having archers from the start), then Spain, Celts, Rome, Hungary, Greece, part of Russia, Poland & Sweden (conquest is my favorite type of victory). Finally I won at year 13xx. Loved the cities mood control (it's a great done feature), loved the historic accuracy of settlement (with some exceptions - Chinese city in Ukraine , for example).

This is one of best scenarios, if my opinion is needed. Why didn't I play it more? Well, just because I play my own WIP mod, as many modders.

[Maimonides]

Originally Posted by timerover51

Pirate ship at 6 Attack, 6 Defense, and 20 Bonus hit points, compared to the English Man-of-War at 3 Attack, 2 Defense, and no bonus hit points, with the Ironclad at 4 Attack, 4 Defense, and no bonus hit points? I like nasty Barbarians, but this appears to be too much of a good thing. Combat data and costs appear like they are going to take a fair amount of work.

I can't answer your other questions either because it's been awhile since I played this or I don't have the modding knowledge, but I can answer this one.

The mega pirates are needed to keep things from totally deviating from the history. If not for them, Europeans would be able to reach Australia, etc. in the ancient age. By the time the Age of Exploration comes along, the mega pirates are weakened enough & you are strong enough to actually follow the history. TET found a great & fun way to keep exploration & overseas expansion from starting way too early. Ancient sea travel in the Med is dangerous, but still possible because the distance between safe ports isn't too great. The mega pirates keep the Greeks from sailing to South Africa in the ancient age, for example.

EDIT: Every time I see this thread get bumped I get really excited hoping TET came back...

[timerover51]

Originally Posted by Maimonides

I can't answer your other questions either because it's been awhile since I played this or I don't have the modding knowledge, but I can answer this one.

EDIT: Every time I see this thread get bumped I get really excited hoping TET came back...

My apologies for causing unwarranted excitement, Maimonides. I have gotten a lot of modding ideas from the Test of Time.

The mega pirates are needed to keep things from totally deviating from the history. If not for them, Europeans would be able to reach Australia, etc. in the ancient age. By the time the Age of Exploration comes along, the mega pirates are weakened enough & you are strong enough to actually follow the history. TET found a great & fun way to keep exploration & overseas expansion from starting way too early. Ancient sea travel in the Med is dangerous, but still possible because the distance between safe ports isn't too great. The mega pirates keep the Greeks from sailing to South Africa in the ancient age, for example.

There are 43 Advances to be researched prior to the Industrial Age, assuming that all of them are researched prior to advancement. The minimum research time is 4 turns. If all of the techs are researched at the fastest possible rate, that would give reaching the Industrial Age in 172 turns. That is faster than possible, but allowing for tech trading, and pushing research as strongly as possible, along with say the Great Library, it should be possible to reach or get close to the Industrial Age within 195 turns. The remaining 350 turns of the game cover 1800 years. The game runs until 2050. Subtracting 1800 from 2050 leaves you getting to the Industrial Age about 250 AD. For Ocean exploration, you need Astronomy and either Navigation or Magnetism, so you can start doing serious exploration long before reaching the Industrial Age or well before the date of 250 AD.

Herodotus reports a Phoenician expedition that circumnavigated Africa circa 600 BC, set out by Pharaoh Necho, which I consider may have actually occurred. Pytheas of Massalia circumnavigated the island of Great Britain in the 4th century BC, and may also have reached what is variously viewed as Iceland, the Faroes Islands, or the southwestern coast of Norway. Wherever he went, it was to the north of Scotland. The Irish Christians, sometimes called the Westmen, reached Iceland sometime in the 9th Century AD, after the start of Viking raids on Ireland, being followed by the Vikings in the 10th Century, and the Westmen may have reached Greenland as well. Various Norse explorers, beginning with Erik the Red, reached Greenland, Baffin Island, Labrador, Newfoundland, and possibly penetrated Hudson Bay, all of this around 1000 AD.

In size and sailing characteristics, the Norse trading vessel, the Knorr (or Knarr), is quite comparable to the caravels of the later Portuguese and Spanish, and probably manned by far superior seaman. While the Phoenicians and Greeks might have had difficulties making it as far as the New World, they could have easily done much more in exploring Africa, and may have. If the Norse had pushed a bit harder, or been slightly more fortunate in where they attempted their first settlement, as opposed to a trade goods gathering expedition, which is what Leif Erikson's voyage was, they could have established a colony in southeastern Newfoundland 500 years before Columbus.

Pirate ships capable of stopping galleys from exploring the Atlantic, I can see that. Pirates ships making things difficult for caravels I can sort of see. Pirate ships capable of making mincemeat out of Galleons, Frigates, English Man-o-War, and Industrial Age Ironclads I take very strong exception too. Aside from giving the Iroquois, Aztecs, and Inca a free rein to expand in the Americas, there is no corresponding mass of ships in the North Pacific blocking Japan, China, and Korea. It is quite possible to travel from Japan, China, or Korea to North America entirely by Coast tiles, which can safely be traversed by any ship. That should be possible to achieve before even the Medieval Period is reached. If any of those Asian powers head for North America, there is absolutely nothing to stop them, and the Europeans may find when they arrive that the Aztecs and Iroquois are engaged in warfare with the Asiatics somewhere along the line of the Mississippi River or Rockies. Exactly how quasi-historical is that?

Based on all of that, the mega/super pirates are going to go. Making hash out of my galleys, I have been used to that since first playing the PTW scenario that came on the Civ3 Complete disks. Beating up on my caravels, such is life. However, when I have Frigates, Man-o-War, and Ironclads, then it is pay back time.