The Civ2 Terrain Theory Thread

[Nicheal]

1Hi Folks. (Introduction)

An impressing Fact is, that Curt Sibling in 2005 created Bitterfrost II for Test of Time...
it seems. I thought, my Style of 80 til 90kb Events.txt with CITYTAKENS Sound, Text,
Unitgivens is a Revolution, but Curt Sibling did that 2005 in a huge and great Scenario
called Bitterfrost II til IV, 2005 til 2007 i think.

Yes, there are CivIII til CivV, but to be honest, i was bored playing CivIII til CivV...
We as a funny Dozen CivII Modders know the Advantages of CivII:
30.000 Squares is huge. 4Maps is massive. To create own little simple Units is no Effort,
and is pure Satisfaction to see the own Dreams (or Nightmares) walking on Screen.

Yes, CivIII has better Graphics, better Resource-Management, unlimited Everything,
better Diplomacy, better, better, better. To modd that made me crazy.
To modd a huge Game, the Gameplay made me crazy. To ever and ever wait for
these damned Animations to make "Booom", to ever and ever wait for this lazy AI...
CivII is more or less simple, and damned WORKS.

I was bored to see, that CivIII has 1Map, two Continents left and right, and then
this good damned old Journey of Expansion and Research... boring, after the
SciFi 4Map Test of Time Game... i like CivII, cause it is simple to reach the own Projects,
it is doable, reachable, and i have my damned Events.txt and 4Maps Hell and War.
To modd every other Civ Game is much more Work, and much less Options, i think.

Yes, the Graphics are old and ugly more or less. Diplomacy, AI, limited Units, Tecs...
limited Everything, but a good Modder can handle that easily.
The Progress in all that Stuff, @McMonkey, @Sibling, @Catfish, @all is Satisfaction to me,
is honorable and "sweet", if i can say.
I did my own little Progress too, in Events.txt (til 90kb), in Unit Graphics (stealing Fairlines),
Terrain Graphics (stealing Catfishs)... and i did my own little Progress in Terrain Theory,
and that i will show right now, Folks. Yes, every Revolution was done before, so i might
say nothing really new, but i say that right now:


2Why should we use all the possible limited Terrain
in the boring Civ2 Original Way?

I remember a Scenario called "Aeterna Civitas II" by McMonkey... an early one by him, i think.
He made the Effort, to place every damned single Infrastructure, every single Terrain,
every single Irrigation or Mining, every single Street. And he made the Effort, to give
every of the 30 Terrains, that means, every Bonus Terrain too, other Names and Adjectives.
I had 30 Terrains to learn, and what i HATE, is, that my Tax was Minus.
The Government was exhausted, all Improvements were built, all Infrastructure was placed,
no Terrain was terraformable. The only possible Solution was to sell Improvements.
I HATE that, when i have nothing to do, when i CANT DO ANYTHING.


3And step by step my Terrain Theory grew perfect.

I usually use the "Grassland" Terrain (on which Test of Time places Settlers at the
Beginning of every new Game, your Map should include "Grassland", or Terrain-Slot 3),
as Basic Land. This Land is a more or less nothing.
Then i use the Irrigation/Mining-Order set as "TerrainX/Y" to change per Irrigation/Mining-Order
into -more Food TERRAIN, or -more Shields TERRAIN. So we have the Decision out of
the Basic Land, to create, for example, Agricultur1, or Facility1. Agricultur1 can get Irrigation
with the Irrigation-Order, or can be terraformed to Agricultur2 with the Mining-Order.
Facility1 can get Mining with the Mining-Order, or can be terraformed to Facility2 with
the Irrigation-Order.

My Terrain Theory includes -Forests, -Mountains, -Walls, as Main Terrain, includes
-Basic Land, -Agricultur x2, -Facility x2, -Ocean, and another Terrain Type for totally free Choice.
And every single Terrain can be terraformed to another, so every single Terrain can
be created by Player, even Walls.
You see? Why should Grassland ever be Grassland? Even the damned Romans and
Caesar Augustus knew, how to make a Forum out of a Hill.
The Chinese made the Great Wall. So why should Grassland ever be Grassland?
In Civ2 Original i can terraform Forests, why shouldnt i terraform Prair to Grassland,
and Grassland, for example, to Agricultur?

Yes, only Engineers in the Year 2899 should do that? No.
We create Fantasy or Ancient Scenarios, IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE (but Time-expensive) ANYWAY.

Have Fun!

[McMonkey]

I'm glad my mistakes inspired you to look for a better system I realise I can do too much of the infrastructure work from the start and that takes away some of the fun for the player.

I would highly recommend checking out John Ellis' Seize the Crown for a really innovative terrain system.

I have tried using terrain in different ways in my more recent scenarios. For example in A Soaring Spirit I used special food, shield and trade terrain squares to ensure major historical cities would have the resources to grow, whilst historically minor cities would be less powerful. I also used a terrain type called Colony Site to mark out potential city sites. This was to ensure the whole map got used and there would be tension between the nations for prime sites. I would like to do more to use John Ellis' concept of ploughing land to prepare it for farming. Definitely something to give more thought to!

[Nicheal]

for a really innovative terrain system

hu?!? The above is NOT?

Yes, i criticised you already, you did so in "Aeterna Civitas II". But you could release
a damned Sandwich, and your "Fortress Europe" would be genius anyway...

And i will criticise ever, that 60 Technologies are already given, all Infrastructure is
already placed, all Improvements are already built, that is no Fun.
That is much Work for the Modder, hope he has Tastatur (Keyboard!) Combinations anyway,
but it is much Work, which is unnecessary, cause this much Work is no Fun for both.

For sure, there are Dozens of Possibilities to use Terrain, you surely did, another Guy
perhaps did better than i did, but i told you now, and thats all.
Terrain shouldnt be static, should be the "Art of creating a Realm".
I will look at John Ellis and steal what i can...

[McMonkey]

I wasn't try to imply your idea wasn't innovative, just thought John's system might inspire you further

[Nicheal]

-sneef- really?

Looked at. Might have to play, to understand quite enough.
"My Way" of Terrain Theory is quite done, McM.
As you could see in my TCC Scenario(Link!) of Cruzan Colony.
There i took Theory to Level right now.

Thanks for showing me John Ellis and his Scenario! Greetings

[Hans99]

Dude, your introduction speech rocks. Somehow one will always fall back to the classics, that have some feel. I cannot describe it. Maybe the wurd "true" from the metal scene fits in best here. About your terrain theory, yeah, why not. I like that Idea!

[Tanelorn]

Interesting. Worth contemplating. I have a couple of questions for later.

[CurtSibling]

Good thread, and cheers for the mention!