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Old May 05, 2012, 10:40 AM   #1
Revent
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[BTS] Japanese Noble Help

Hey everyone. This is my first post here so sorry if I've posted in the wrong sub section!! But I'm normally a Chieftain player and lately I've upped my game to Noble and I just want to know how I'm doing because initially, I start off very well but somehow I just drop down really fast/the AI overtake me at around this point onwards so I was wondering what I could do with the current game I have at the moment. Right now, I'm planning on taking out Pacal and having the whole continent for myself before I declare war on Monty once I get to Astronomy and build myself a large fleet.
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Old May 05, 2012, 10:55 AM   #2
cbucks
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Watch absolute zeros videos. 2002 ad is a little late for astronomy
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Old May 05, 2012, 11:04 AM   #3
Revent
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Watch absolute zeros videos. 2002 ad is a little late for astronomy
It's 1470 AD though

And I'd love to, but videos is not an option for me. I have a 3gb monthly internet limit right now (New houses so no broadband yet).

But, how has my gameplay been so far? My score is at the top for now, although I feel it won't be for long.
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Old May 05, 2012, 12:26 PM   #4
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You don't have enough cities. There are several good locations to the northwest. There's enough room west and northwest of kyoto, and the Aztec cities to the south could also have been settled by you.
You have only 7 cities, and I think Nagoya will do little except increase border tensions.
You should also build more workers and chop more forests. The workers that you have, have often built mines, or plains cottages that you won't work anyway. try to keep a +5 food surplus, and if you don't have it, built farms and not mines. This will insure enough growth with some usage of slavery.
You should whip more, for example the grocer in Kagoshima where you have 1 unhappiness and 5 unhealthiness. A grasslandfarm in an unhealthy city doesn't produce anything and if you work those or plains farms/forests it's a good idea to whip something

You should try to specialize the cities more. Don't run 5 cottages in the city where you build the heroic epic. Kagoshima would make a good place to runs specialists and farm great persons with 3 food resources.

Mercantilism is a bad civic to be in when you have so much international traderoutes across water. These will yield at least 3 and probably at least 4 coins each at this stage of the game.
You want mercantilism only if everyone else runs it, or if you are much bigger than the others, so the trade will help them more than you.

you should reconnect the clams in kagoshima, and you have fish in your borders already. These will help a lot with health.
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Old May 05, 2012, 01:26 PM   #5
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Watch absolute zeros videos. 2002 ad is a little late for astronomy
You see, TMIT still exists. He also made a nice couple of games in the past. Noble doesn't need IMM/Deity conditioning.
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Old May 05, 2012, 01:58 PM   #6
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Okay thanks for that. I will try to work on this. I'm going to retry this game from 4000BC and see how it goes following the advice.

Regarding the cities, what am I meant to do with so many cities? I know I could settle probably two in the northwest, but for example the ones that Monty settled near me, would they be very good cities? And having the cities so close; wouldn't that be bad because of overlapping tiles?
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Old May 05, 2012, 02:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Revent View Post
Hey everyone. This is my first post here so sorry if I've posted in the wrong sub section!! But I'm normally a Chieftain player and lately I've upped my game to Noble and I just want to know how I'm doing because initially, I start off very well but somehow I just drop down really fast/the AI overtake me at around this point onwards so I was wondering what I could do with the current game I have at the moment. Right now, I'm planning on taking out Pacal and having the whole continent for myself before I declare war on Monty once I get to Astronomy and build myself a large fleet.
1) Welcome to Civ Fanatics

2) Turn #207 is very late to be asking for help. The opening is hugely important in this game, but 150 turns later, the opening is much harder to see

3) There's a strategy guide on getting advice in my signature, read it

4) Tokugawa is a hard leader to play, relative to many others. If you are transitioning to Noble, it would be wise to consider some of the more friendly leaders (Hatshepsut, Elizabeth, etc).

OK, onto the game

#1 - Kyoto has a suspiciously large number of trees left at this point in the game. The most common use of trees in the early game is to fuel ancient era production - chopping workers, chopping settlers, and the like. You don't appear to have done that, which means that you are behind in time.

#2 - according to the demographics screen (F9/Demographics), you are dead last in soldiers. That's a dangerous place to be.

#3 - You're also way behind in crop yield (food) despite being first in land area. FOOD is LIFE.

#4 - You have at least 4 good city locations available, and you aren't training any settlers.

#5 - You have an inner ring clams tile that hasn't been improved.

#6 - Your religious allies have a number of resources available for trade, and you seem to be ignoring them.

#7 - You have Samurai! why don't you seem to be killing anyone?

#8 - Sistine Chapel and Statue of Zues have been pretty useless, wouldn't you say?

#9 - Kyoto is just a mess, when it should be your best city. It's your capital, you have a happy cap of 18 (good) and a population of 7 (sad). All of your good green tiles are buried under trees, and instead you are using an UNIRRIGATED corn tile to feed a bunch of brown junk.

Actually, I see that corn problem in several places, so maybe you need an explanation of the mechanic? Rice, Wheat, and Corn can be farmed wherever they appear. However, you get an extra food per turn from each if they have access to fresh water. In the early game, that means being next to a river or fresh water lake. After you discover Civil Service, farms that have access to fresh water also count as a source of fresh water. So you can create an "irrigation chain" by putting farm tiles next to each other.

#10 - Six workers isn't nearly enough, which is why your land advantage isn't currently translating to a commanding lead

#11 - Always be teching with a purpose. In this start, Agriculture and Hunting are good initial techs. Mysticism has no immediate value to you, so it can wait. Archery should also wait -- you don't need defensive pieces yet. Your first four techs almost certainly should have been Agriculture, followed by Hunting, Mining, and Bronzeworking in some order.

#12 - 1600 BC for the founding of Osaka is very late. That's turn 60? which is 20-25 turns later than I would expect.

#Last - you are playing without a plan.
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Old May 05, 2012, 04:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoiceOfUnreason View Post
1) Welcome to Civ Fanatics

2) Turn #207 is very late to be asking for help. The opening is hugely important in this game, but 150 turns later, the opening is much harder to see

3) There's a strategy guide on getting advice in my signature, read it

4) Tokugawa is a hard leader to play, relative to many others. If you are transitioning to Noble, it would be wise to consider some of the more friendly leaders (Hatshepsut, Elizabeth, etc).

OK, onto the game

#1 - Kyoto has a suspiciously large number of trees left at this point in the game. The most common use of trees in the early game is to fuel ancient era production - chopping workers, chopping settlers, and the like. You don't appear to have done that, which means that you are behind in time.

#2 - according to the demographics screen (F9/Demographics), you are dead last in soldiers. That's a dangerous place to be.

#3 - You're also way behind in crop yield (food) despite being first in land area. FOOD is LIFE.

#4 - You have at least 4 good city locations available, and you aren't training any settlers.

#5 - You have an inner ring clams tile that hasn't been improved.

#6 - Your religious allies have a number of resources available for trade, and you seem to be ignoring them.

#7 - You have Samurai! why don't you seem to be killing anyone?

#8 - Sistine Chapel and Statue of Zues have been pretty useless, wouldn't you say?

#9 - Kyoto is just a mess, when it should be your best city. It's your capital, you have a happy cap of 18 (good) and a population of 7 (sad). All of your good green tiles are buried under trees, and instead you are using an UNIRRIGATED corn tile to feed a bunch of brown junk.

Actually, I see that corn problem in several places, so maybe you need an explanation of the mechanic? Rice, Wheat, and Corn can be farmed wherever they appear. However, you get an extra food per turn from each if they have access to fresh water. In the early game, that means being next to a river or fresh water lake. After you discover Civil Service, farms that have access to fresh water also count as a source of fresh water. So you can create an "irrigation chain" by putting farm tiles next to each other.

#10 - Six workers isn't nearly enough, which is why your land advantage isn't currently translating to a commanding lead

#11 - Always be teching with a purpose. In this start, Agriculture and Hunting are good initial techs. Mysticism has no immediate value to you, so it can wait. Archery should also wait -- you don't need defensive pieces yet. Your first four techs almost certainly should have been Agriculture, followed by Hunting, Mining, and Bronzeworking in some order.

#12 - 1600 BC for the founding of Osaka is very late. That's turn 60? which is 20-25 turns later than I would expect.

#Last - you are playing without a plan.
Thanks so much for all these tips! I think I'll drop this game as somehow I screwed up (again!!) I managed to expand more on my second attempt and had around 11 cities rather than the original 7; I built them such that Pacal had no access to iron and copper so that when I declared war on him, he only had longbows and holkans against my samurais, took his two biggest cities including capital, but I fell behind in technology so dropped it : (was on banking whilst two AI already had Liberalism)

Regarding the corn problem, thanks for that! I actually did not know that!! I've started a new game now so hopefully I should do better.
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Old May 06, 2012, 08:08 PM   #9
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I concure that the Japanese are difficult to use. I think financial leaders are the best option on low difficulties and for new players. I also like organised. These two traits provide benefits throughout the game without and specialized strategies. The military traits are of little use in my opinion on noble because you should be able to get a tech lead and dominate foes.
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Old May 06, 2012, 09:42 PM   #10
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Oy, you have a large amount of space to yourself on this map. And for some reason, I see a city on the other continent owned by you and you let Monty on your own land!

Chopping workers and settlers is your main priority at the moment. There's still lands to the west that are uncontested, and use chain farms (fresh water farm can pass fresh water to other farms. Also, your tech path is a bit questionable; not really sure what to gain from going samurai against Pacal.

I played through this a bit quickly to reach your point in the game. Actually didn't do so great myself (blocked off a fish , damn fractal), accidentially stagnated my capital, and it has many trees still, and have yet to begin attacking yet they have engineering. But at least, I get to chop units out I guess. But yea, chopping crap down does wonders.

Also, the stats screen said you spent 1:29 on this game (less than 30 seconds a move) so you may want to slow down a bit and think every turn through until you can beat this difficulty consistently. Otherwise you will be like me and forget granaries in your capital. Like I just noticed right now for myself.
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Old May 07, 2012, 11:35 PM   #11
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Oops, did not know Op gave up on the save.

I played this and had an awsome builder thing going on.

Played till 900AD and on the last turn of the first GA using music GA, Toku built The GLib, Mids, Hanging garden (w/10 cities) and UoS in the capital. Stone city built the MoM and the Parthonon, and a coastal city built the Colosus. Fun map and Toku is not that bad.

Slowly getting ready to go after Monti. Pacal will stay around since he is teching a bit better than the other AI.
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File Type: civbeyondswordsave Jaffer AD-0900.CivBeyondSwordSave (193.2 KB, 2 views)
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Old May 09, 2012, 02:28 PM   #12
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Thanks guys for that! I'll have a look through your saves! It should be really helpful and insightful I did manage to win my first game on noble though!!
For some reason, I can't open any of your guys games :s:

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Old May 09, 2012, 02:57 PM   #13
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Welcome to the forums and congrats on the win. You have to open up a save in game and by having the save with the other save files.
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Old May 09, 2012, 04:04 PM   #14
Archon_Wing
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I usually just double click on the file.
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Old May 09, 2012, 11:35 PM   #15
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You should be able to either Open the file by clicking on it and giving permision to run civ or save to hardrive and open with Civ.

I played the game to 1400, got rid of Monti, Pacal peace vasseled and liberated all but 1 of Monti cities to new Vassal Wong Kong. I am done until current BOTM ends.
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Old May 10, 2012, 08:25 AM   #16
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Interesting, clicking on the save just runs Civ for me, then I need load save manually, is it because I run game on Steam?

@Revent What happens when trying open the save? Do you receive error message?
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Old May 12, 2012, 03:22 PM   #17
Revent
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I get an error that says can not run version 302
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