G-Major 104

[Ozbenno]

While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Space Colony (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Immortal
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Standard
• Map Type: Any
• Speed: Epic
• Required: No Tribal Villages
• Must Not Be Checked: No Barbarians
• Civ: Japan (Tokugawa)
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 3.19.003
• Date: 10th May to 10th June 2012

Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

[Ozbenno]

Thought as the latest SGOTM draws to a close, you'd all want more gawas in your life

[shulec]

Originally Posted by Ozbenno

Thought as the latest SGOTM draws to a close, you'd all want more gawas in your life

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

[vranasm]

is the availability of events a + or -... for someone running max 1-2 games probably -.

Continents could be good for space imo, but I will listen to other peoples thoughts for sure.

[shulec]

Can we add "Permanent Alliances" to the must not be checked list?

[neilmeister]

I'm thinking rainforest for this.

[AAA]

Originally Posted by neilmeister

I'm thinking rainforest for this.

I thought Terra got your the most land and resources?

[Htadus]

Originally Posted by neilmeister

I'm thinking rainforest for this.

I was considering this but then changed my mind.

Originally Posted by AAA

I thought Terra got your the most land and resources?

I am not sure this is true and it forces you to play without vassals to reduce the colony maintanance. Humm come to think of it, I should have used no vassals.


I started a game for this on Big and Small and plan to go Corps route. But I hate the number of desert tiles on that map.

Had a 1 corn , 1 gold and 7 flood plain start. Oracled MC and Founded Conf with CoL. Traded generously and has tech parity. Now heading to Lit and secured Marble. It is almost time to rush someone.

[AAA]

Originally Posted by Htadus

I am not sure this is true and it forces you to play without vassals to reduce the colony maintanance. Humm come to think of it, I should have used no vassals.
I

I didn't know you could do that - thanks for the tip

[Firmlife]

Finally had a game worth taking past 1000AD: 1890's finish. Last place in the gauntlet, no surprise, but since this was my first real Immortal game, I was just happy to finish. The game raised a number of questions/issues for me though.

First, I tried raging barbs five or so times, but I kept getting swamped. There was hardly a point to going worker first because I'd have four barbs in my borders almost constantly, so he couldn't work much, and they were pillaging whatever I did manage to get up. Is this normal? How is it handled? Chop archers instead of improvements to get archers out faster? If I sent fog-breakers out it didn't seem to help much, the barbs just ran right past. The way I was going, if I didn't have copper for my second city, when the axemen started I'd eventually be overrun.

Second, how do you deal with the speed with which the comps expand? It wasn't uncommon for them to have twice as many cities as me early, and if I tried to keep up and get to 5-6 cities really quickly, I'd have to run my science slider at 30-40%. The game I finally stuck with I was able to wall off an area for myself and deny the comp open borders until it made sense for me to settle it. Is it better to just get to 6 at all costs and bite the bullet on maintenance until they develop?

Last, was it just me or is Tokugawa particularly brutal for higher level games? Fishing/The Wheel seems like the worst possible starting tech combo and of course his abilities add almost nothing to a tech game. I had to play about 15-20 games to get the one I went with. Granted, a number of those were wasted trying out viable tech paths, wasting my time on raging barbs, and trying to get a map where I wasn't too close to the comps to start, which is both a blessing and a curse because if the comps are close at least there are less barbs. How many games do people usually start before they stick with one?

Thanks in advance for any and all answers. Recently made the Monarch-->Emperor jump without much problem, but this game just gave seemed so much harder.

[lymond]

Originally Posted by Firmlife

Finally had a game worth taking past 1000AD: 1890's finish. Last place in the gauntlet, no surprise, but since this was my first real Immortal game, I was just happy to finish. The game raised a number of questions/issues for me though.

First off, congrats on your first IMM win, or at least regulation win. Not a bad space date for first time

Originally Posted by Firmlife

First, I tried raging barbs five or so times, but I kept getting swamped. There was hardly a point to going worker first because I'd have four barbs in my borders almost constantly, so he couldn't work much, and they were pillaging whatever I did manage to get up. Is this normal? How is it handled? Chop archers instead of improvements to get archers out faster? If I sent fog-breakers out it didn't seem to help much, the barbs just ran right past. The way I was going, if I didn't have copper for my second city, when the axemen started I'd eventually be overrun.

Kinda baffled that you chose the raging barb option when not required. The only advantage I see is possibly nerfing the AI, but that can be map dependent. For example, Pangaea maps often limit the barb issues, whereas Archipelago maps barbs are not much of an issue. On the other hand it can also backfire and simply nerf your game.

If going raging barbs, I would generally try to get the Great Wall asap. Once you hit IMM, barbs can get pretty hairy quick.

I rarely tech Archery even with raging barbs on.

Originally Posted by Firmlife

Second, how do you deal with the speed with which the comps expand? It wasn't uncommon for them to have twice as many cities as me early, and if I tried to keep up and get to 5-6 cities really quickly, I'd have to run my science slider at 30-40%. The game I finally stuck with I was able to wall off an area for myself and deny the comp open borders until it made sense for me to settle it. Is it better to just get to 6 at all costs and bite the bullet on maintenance until they develop?

I assume by comps, you mean the AI - I guess you are saying competition. Some of your questions here are more suited to the Strategy & Tips forum, but I'll give it a go.

As you reach higher levels, you should generally expect to the AI to expand faster than you. It's really just a matter of expand to a good empire size - roughly 6 cities - and then breaking out. Using the whip will help you expand faster.

Maintenance obviously increases as you move up levels. The key here is learning to manage your economy and slider. Heck I run 0% research or binary often. Once you hit Writing, shut off research and pocket gold as you expand. Use something like Aesths as a placeholder since it is a good trade tech. Build libraries and run scientists in the interim - build and Academy with first GS. Once libraries are in and you have enough gold finish out Aesths or Alpha or whatever based on your strategy. Definitely get Currency as soon as you are able. Once you have that tech your economy woes should be over.

It's important not to focus too much on X% research slider, but rather your Beakers Per Turn (bpts). The more cities, land, trade routes and beaker modifiers you have, the more research you can pump out. I often run my slider at 100% or 0% - not so much in between - at least for a good portion of the early game.

Make sure you get Open Borders Asap with most everyone and hook up those foreign trade routes- they are a big deal.

Originally Posted by Firmlife

Last, was it just me or is Tokugawa particularly brutal for higher level games? Fishing/The Wheel seems like the worst possible starting tech combo and of course his abilities add almost nothing to a tech game. I had to play about 15-20 games to get the one I went with. Granted, a number of those were wasted trying out viable tech paths, wasting my time on raging barbs, and trying to get a map where I wasn't too close to the comps to start, which is both a blessing and a curse because if the comps are close at least there are less barbs. How many games do people usually start before they stick with one?

Granted, Toku is not the best leaders. In fact, he is consider one of the worst. It's not due to his starting techs though. Mainly his traits suck. Fishing is not great, but with the right start on certain maps you are glad you have it. The Wheel is actually one of of the Top starting techs along with Agriculture and Mining. Any combo of those 3 is very nice. The Wheel is the most expensive of the 1st tier techs and it is a very important tech.

Anyway, as for Toku as a leader, I subscribe to the camp that you can win with any leader in any situation. Yeah, certain leaders have advantages, but if you play it right you should come out fairly comparable in the end. His UU can actually be pretty effective in an otherwise poor era for warfare.

As for how many games I play, it's usually based more on how the start works out. I usually take risks and gambles based on X start with good resources. If it doesn't pan out or the map turns out to be a dud, I start again. I'm actually playing 2 simultaneous games of this particular Guantlet as I try out a variation on a similar strategy.

Originally Posted by Firmlife

Thanks in advance for any and all answers. Recently made the Monarch-->Emperor jump without much problem, but this game just gave seemed so much harder.

IMM is a big jump. Deity is a HUGE jump.

[BornInCantaloup]

So did anybody else play this game ?

I tried it for my 1st HoF submission, finding the settings interesting.
I'm unsure how "permanent alliances" would affect the game. I feared they'd make it cheesy so didn't check the option.

I (will have) played under the settings :
Hemispheres
2 continents, tiny islands
9 AIs, handpicked (peacemongers, Cathy, Monty)
Tropical climate
No huts/events
Low Sea level

Looked for a 6 food + gold + BFC copper start and ended up playing a 2 corn + 2 gold start with copper outside the BFC. So I didn't axe rush but choked and then warred non stop till my hemisphere was mine.
There was some good and some bad (events+mistakes) during the game. I actually learnt quite a lot.
Target date is in the mid 1700's (and I played to 1690 1702 AD ; need 5 more turns for research). Not the greatest game but I'm glad I'll finish before the deadline. I just wish I had time for another attempt... errr, never mind Maybe next time I'll stroke the late 1600's...

[WastinTime]

I submitted the OCC, PA cheese game just to set the bar.
I'm in 2nd place, so someone did this game justice.

Early congrats!

[BornInCantaloup]

Oh you got me confused, now... What is this OCC you talk about ?
And how do you know about other submissions ? I tried to check them on the HoF site but none appeared...

[WastinTime]

Originally Posted by BornInCantaloup

Oh you got me confused, now... What is this OCC you talk about ?
And how do you know about other submissions ? I tried to check them on the HoF site but none appeared...

OCC is the game option "one city challenge". You play with just your capital.

If you log into the HoF website, and click on gauntlets, you can see the # of submissions and your rank, but not the others' details.

[BornInCantaloup]

Alright, I didn't realize the blank cases counted for submitted games... Thanks !

And you actually played this as an OCC with PA on... Lol.

[Ozbenno]

This gauntlet is now closed.

Results:
G-Major 104 - Space Colony, Immortal, Standard, Epic
1^st Pollina 1808 AD (87,141 points)
2^nd WastinTime 1808 AD (27,509 points)
3^rd lymond 1869 AD

Well done all...

[WastinTime]

Aw! man I tied for first in finish date, but OCC will never win a score tiebreaker. Great job Pollina! people did not want to see my cheese game win 1st.

[Pollina]

Well thanks. I never thought my rather fast and sloppy game would win the gauntlet. I had a much better second game going, but lost that to an AP DV.
Still, I don’t see why a great OCC PA cheese game like yours should deserve the win any less than a sloppy regular PA cheese game. In my opinion, the former is far more impressive.

[BornInCantaloup]

Arf ! Oh noez !
Well done, people

Thank you Ozbenno for your kind e-mail.

Indeed, I used MapFinder to get the map. It is very possible that I played the wrong starting save. I'm not used to that tool yet. I noticed the map I played started with "Session 2 started".

Another thing I did abundantly (if that even exists) was saving a few times over the same file, during a single turn. Say I'm ending a session, I save, then check the map, change something, save again, etc. That shouldn't mess with the log, right ? Or does it ?

@ The rules : I did read them. Just didn't get the mechanics right
Anyways, I'll experiment on those :

o Use the "Save on Exit" feature of the HOF mod.
o Start the next session with the HOF auto-save created at the end of your previous session.
o Replaying the same starting file a second time – easy to do with map finder if you don’t move/rename them when you use them.