Is Mansa Munsa almost always 2nd/3rd in your guys games?

Leathaface · May 15, 2012, 11:20 AM

He is with mine. Why the hell can he research so quickly?

Plus of course he almost always founds a religion, so he can get allies.

Tachywaxon · May 15, 2012, 11:28 AM

Mansa isn't awesome without tech trading. That is the factor that makes him so strong. His lack of secrecy in tech trade makes every possible trade with the neighbour as long the said one accepts to share their knowledge.

He has a religious flavour that makes him to tech a religious tech early or later if missed the early religions.
He actively spread his religion, so he makes friend.
He highly tends to turtle and go for culture.

Mansa isn't always the top dog. Depends of initial lands and opponents.

Antilogic · May 15, 2012, 12:33 PM

His other advantage being near-immunity to early rushes and barbarian raids because of that accursed skirmisher UU. He is a trade/peace-oriented AI that has enough of a military boost in the early game to consistently avoid getting crippled.

lymond · May 15, 2012, 12:59 PM

Either befriend him or kill him off early, if his proximity to your empire is irksome. Generally though, du to his nature, you will want befriend him. The fact that he trades so liberally and techs well is a benefit to you. Use him and you will tech like mad. It's good on most levels, but especially in the mid-range levels since he can somewhat keep up, while an experienced human player will usually leave the AIs in the dust.

He also makes a darn good vassal and his tech viable with just 2 or 3 decent cities. (By the way, you can direct your vassal's research)

gps · May 16, 2012, 01:19 AM

Couldn't say that. In my games he usually does not expand enough to be in that position. His tech rate is very good, but he usually hasn't enough land to really dominate. Surprisingly enough in my games it's usually the dutch who are a very consistent superpower.

Choggy · May 16, 2012, 02:58 AM

Mansa doesn't so much tech quickly, he tech-trades heavily with everybody which gives the appearance of him teching quickly - he'll trade with you even at 'annoyed' and it's very rare that you get a 'We don't want to start trading this just yet' message from him.

Lymond is quite right when he says that he makes a great vassal for teching with.

He does tend to get attacked by the more war-like civs though, depending on your situation you might want to dogpile him to gain favour with the likes of Shaka or Monty.

Overall though he's probably my favourite AI civ. Get him on your side and concentrate on expansion and war, he'll keep you in the tech race.

karadoc · May 16, 2012, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gps

Couldn't say that. In my games he usually does not expand enough to be in that position. His tech rate is very good, but he usually hasn't enough land to really dominate. Surprisingly enough in my games it's usually the dutch who are a very consistent superpower.

I don't know why that should be surprising. Willem is well known as being one of the strongest leaders.

gps · May 16, 2012, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karadoc

Willem is well known as being one of the strongest leaders.

Yes, but I would not necessarily expect him to be so expansive (for example compared to Mansa Musa). His number of natively founded cities usually is one of the highest of all the AI - which seems quite remakable for a leader that is not expansive or imperialistic but financial and creative.

Htadus · May 16, 2012, 10:55 AM

He is number 2 when I head to space and I will help him to get there as long as he is not within 9-11 tiles of me.

Ataxerxes · May 16, 2012, 03:41 PM

In a lot of my games his score isn't that great but he's still a threat to win. He vassalizes very quickly and always seems to be on the lookout for a protector. His score will be deceptively low but I have to keep my eye on the victory screen for when his cities' culture takes off.

Mansa and Shaka alone on the same continent usually winds up with Mansa teching for Shaka, vassalizing to him and then using Shaka as a protector while he guns for culture.

nfw · May 16, 2012, 05:09 PM

Yeah I always try to kill him asap.

Turquoiside · May 16, 2012, 08:12 PM

Nope. He's almost always, actually, 1st. I think of all the games I've played with him, I've one maybe two games where he was also on the map. Which, out of only a handful of wins isn't too weird, but then again he happens to be part of the reason why I don't have more wins....

King Kalmah · May 16, 2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gps

Yes, but I would not necessarily expect him to be so expansive (for example compared to Mansa Musa). His number of natively founded cities usually is one of the highest of all the AI - which seems quite remakable for a leader that is not expansive or imperialistic but financial and creative.

Its ironic you say that since the majority of the time he gets sandwiched in by other civs in my games.Most of my games they have three cities and a ton of Longbowman....

Biggest empire I have ever seen the Dutch own was maybe 5 cities and they were all coastal.

Maybe the higher the difficulty the less likely the Cities founded by Civs like Mali,Ethiopia and the Dutch would survive...I do notice alot of ruins...

Biggest empire builders for me would be Shaka or Justin.

Can't stop them due to their large military.

Tachywaxon · May 16, 2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ataxerxes

inds up with Mansa teching for Shaka, vassalizing to him and then using Shaka as a protector while he guns for culture.

Hold on the horses!

Since when a vassal helps the master in a AI-AI tech trade relationship. Stupid AI master always seems once they are ready to disclose a tech (no more We don't want to trade it away), it is intantly given to the vassal. In fact, I'm pretty sure Shaka never had one tech as trade bait.

OTOH, Mansa abusing Shaka...

Verarde · May 17, 2012, 09:33 AM

In my current game, I REX'd quickly and he got stuck on a peninsula with only four cities. He vassaled to me and has been sitting comfortably in fourth/fifth all game long.

rah · May 17, 2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Is Mansa Munsa almost always 2nd/3rd in your guys games?

Since we usually play no vassals and no tech trading, if he starts out close, there's no reason to keep him around, so I guess the answer for me is NO.

GA econ FTW · May 17, 2012, 02:43 PM

Also, stick him in 1000AD or a fairly true-earth map where one floodplains city is all he has and even if he vassals to saladin and is allowed to REX everything but Cairo in africa....he's not going to do that well. I'm guessing on a mostly plains-world, he wouldn't do well even if you observed and didn't attack him personally (especially if there's one warmonger AI in the bunch)

krazybastid · May 17, 2012, 06:21 PM

I like to include Mansa in my games. Sometimes even if he's a different religion he still trades techs with you.

Silv Something · May 20, 2012, 11:58 AM

He will trade techs like crazy even if they are horrible for him.

May 15, 2012, 11:20 AM	#1
Leathaface Warlord Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 169	Is Mansa Munsa almost always 2nd/3rd in your guys games? He is with mine. Why the hell can he research so quickly? Plus of course he almost always founds a religion, so he can get allies.

May 15, 2012, 12:33 PM	#3
Antilogic Sheepishly Statist Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: United States Posts: 9,802 Images: 2	His other advantage being near-immunity to early rushes and barbarian raids because of that accursed skirmisher UU. He is a trade/peace-oriented AI that has enough of a military boost in the early game to consistently avoid getting crippled. __________________ Patron of fine and wholesome iced-cream manufactories.

May 15, 2012, 12:59 PM	#4
lymond Synthetic Life Form Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 10,576	Either befriend him or kill him off early, if his proximity to your empire is irksome. Generally though, du to his nature, you will want befriend him. The fact that he trades so liberally and techs well is a benefit to you. Use him and you will tech like mad. It's good on most levels, but especially in the mid-range levels since he can somewhat keep up, while an experienced human player will usually leave the AIs in the dust. He also makes a darn good vassal and his tech viable with just 2 or 3 decent cities. (By the way, you can direct your vassal's research) __________________ "Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity." Christopher Morley lymond's YouTube Channel - Watch me play Civ4 poorly CFC GameOftheMonth(GOTM) Page - why are you not playing these ?

May 16, 2012, 01:19 AM	#5
gps Prince Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 524	Couldn't say that. In my games he usually does not expand enough to be in that position. His tech rate is very good, but he usually hasn't enough land to really dominate. Surprisingly enough in my games it's usually the dutch who are a very consistent superpower. __________________

May 16, 2012, 02:58 AM	#6
Choggy Warlord Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 197	Mansa doesn't so much tech quickly, he tech-trades heavily with everybody which gives the appearance of him teching quickly - he'll trade with you even at 'annoyed' and it's very rare that you get a 'We don't want to start trading this just yet' message from him. Lymond is quite right when he says that he makes a great vassal for teching with. He does tend to get attacked by the more war-like civs though, depending on your situation you might want to dogpile him to gain favour with the likes of Shaka or Monty. Overall though he's probably my favourite AI civ. Get him on your side and concentrate on expansion and war, he'll keep you in the tech race. __________________ Mansa Musa- the Arthur Daley of Civ4.

May 15, 2012, 11:28 AM	#2
Tachywaxon 404 User. True form on. Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,362	Mansa isn't awesome without tech trading. That is the factor that makes him so strong. His lack of secrecy in tech trade makes every possible trade with the neighbour as long the said one accepts to share their knowledge. He has a religious flavour that makes him to tech a religious tech early or later if missed the early religions. He actively spread his religion, so he makes friend. He highly tends to turtle and go for culture. Mansa isn't always the top dog. Depends of initial lands and opponents.

May 16, 2012, 10:55 AM	#9
Htadus A and L's dad Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 2,610	He is number 2 when I head to space and I will help him to get there as long as he is not within 9-11 tiles of me. __________________ Hurry up and wait. Monti - Prince Walk Through http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=466659

May 16, 2012, 03:41 PM	#10
Ataxerxes Deity Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,034	In a lot of my games his score isn't that great but he's still a threat to win. He vassalizes very quickly and always seems to be on the lookout for a protector. His score will be deceptively low but I have to keep my eye on the victory screen for when his cities' culture takes off. Mansa and Shaka alone on the same continent usually winds up with Mansa teching for Shaka, vassalizing to him and then using Shaka as a protector while he guns for culture.

May 16, 2012, 05:09 PM	#11
nfw Prince Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 530	Yeah I always try to kill him asap.

May 16, 2012, 08:12 PM	#12
Turquoiside Blind Archer Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 999 Images: 10	Nope. He's almost always, actually, 1st. I think of all the games I've played with him, I've one maybe two games where he was also on the map. Which, out of only a handful of wins isn't too weird, but then again he happens to be part of the reason why I don't have more wins....

May 17, 2012, 09:33 AM	#15
Verarde On An Island Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 1,944 Images: 1	In my current game, I REX'd quickly and he got stuck on a peninsula with only four cities. He vassaled to me and has been sitting comfortably in fourth/fifth all game long. __________________ The Renewal--A Tale Of A Tribe I am no longer the DrumStudent...I am the DrumTeacher! That's right, I have a webcomic. Updates twice per week on Wednesdays and Saturdays. 2 players. 2 sides. One is light, One is dark.

May 17, 2012, 02:43 PM	#17
GA econ FTW Warlord Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 135	Also, stick him in 1000AD or a fairly true-earth map where one floodplains city is all he has and even if he vassals to saladin and is allowed to REX everything but Cairo in africa....he's not going to do that well. I'm guessing on a mostly plains-world, he wouldn't do well even if you observed and didn't attack him personally (especially if there's one warmonger AI in the bunch)

May 17, 2012, 06:21 PM	#18
krazybastid Chieftain Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 75	I like to include Mansa in my games. Sometimes even if he's a different religion he still trades techs with you.

May 20, 2012, 11:58 AM	#19
Silv Something Pi(e) Loving Maniac Join Date: May 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow . . . Posts: 728 Images: 8	He will trade techs like crazy even if they are horrible for him. __________________

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. This site is copyright © Civilization Fanatics' Center.
Support CFC: Amazon.com \| Amazon UK \| Amazon DE \| Amazon CA \| Amazon FR