[BTS] SGOTM 15 - Phoenix Rising - Page 98

lymond · May 21, 2012, 08:00 AM

While you are basically correct, I don't think "choose religion" option was actually on.

There are other things to consider by going Med. Poly opens Literature and Mono (OR and Theo), while Med can ruin certain bulb paths.

I don't think the 2 turns saved initially make up for the turns lost teching a tech that can be avoided. It certainly did not help the Sporks any.

Gumbolt · May 21, 2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lymond

While you are basically correct, I don't think "choose religion" option was actually on.

There are other things to consider by going Med. Poly opens Literature and Mono (OR and Theo), while Med can ruin certain bulb paths.

I don't think the 2 turns saved initially make up for the turns lost teching a tech that can be avoided. It certainly did not help the Sporks any.

No it wasn't on but as the religion was already taken before med was teched it would give the option of choosing hindu. Maplesporks did this on live game.

Also interesting post from Sengir.

Originally Posted by Sengir View Post
@3560BC we've put 7*4 + 1*2 on Toku; and 1*2 on Hammu
As they met us at their turn, they've put one more turns worth of EP on us.
Therefor: 40/8 = 5EP/turn for Toku and 10/2 for Hammu.

So there's a castle after all it seems.

We really should be looking more closely at ep next game. It gives so much away.

neilmeister · May 21, 2012, 08:03 AM

I thought the same thing myself, while the teams that did this (OSS & Sporks) got Hindu 2 turns earlier, they didn't have a useful pre-req tech.

Gumbolt · May 21, 2012, 08:13 AM

It's also interesting how Maple used Ep to work out some Ai had met other AI. Useful tool I would of never thought of!

We got Oracle T67. They lost the Oracle on T64. Perhaps we started it a few turns earlier? I wonder how close we were to losing it? That would of changed our game completely.

Gumbolt · May 21, 2012, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilmeister

I thought the same thing myself, while the teams that did this (OSS & Sporks) got Hindu 2 turns earlier, they didn't have a useful pre-req tech.

More to the point if OSS/Maple knew this why did they not go agriculture first??? They must of done the maths? Weird!

kossin · May 21, 2012, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumbolt

More to the point if OSS/Maple knew this why did they not go agriculture first??? They must of done the maths? Weird!

Because Emperor AI will do Mysticism > Religion faster than the human can do * > Religion - hence a gamble.

Gumbolt · May 21, 2012, 10:15 AM

We discovered agriculture on T21. On other games I think the Ai got the religion on T20. So maybe there was 1 turn in it with med! This assumes the Ai go straight for med/poly.

Perhaps too risky.

nocho · May 21, 2012, 03:25 PM

Congrats on your win and what seems to be a medal, PR!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumbolt

It's also interesting how Maple used Ep to work out some Ai had met other AI. Useful tool I would of never thought of!

We got Oracle T67. They lost the Oracle on T64. Perhaps we started it a few turns earlier? I wonder how close we were to losing it? That would of changed our game completely.

Losing the Oracle was a major setback for us, all due to a stupid barb warrior screwing up some micro. It basically helped kill the bulb path we had set out and with it also part of our motivation.

Anyhow, most likely we just chose the wrong VC, we never seriously considered the AP. Up to that point we still did respectable with what we figured out with the EPs you mention and finding out we could go meditation first. However, as some rightly point out, whatever we may have gained from getting earlier to hindu we might have lost later in having to go poly anyway towards theology, as we did want the AP, but basically only for a fear of losing a religious vote. Oh why didn't it strike us we might actually win one?

Gumbolt · May 21, 2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nocho

Congrats on your win and what seems to be a medal, PR!

However, as some rightly point out, whatever we may have gained from getting earlier to hindu we might have lost later in having to go poly anyway towards theology, as we did want the AP, but basically only for a fear of losing a religious vote. Oh why didn't it strike us we might actually win one?

Thanks!

My thinking on med was more about agriculture first. I was just thinking how an agriculture/med route would of speeded up the start. Slowing down Theology would of been a big downside. I am not sure if Agr/poly would of worked on live game.

I think one of the reason we built the Ap was to not lose from it! Same as you! Who knows what might of happened if more teams tried AP route.

Duckweed · May 21, 2012, 10:22 PM

I'm not sure the Mediation opening is a good move. Many people are overestimating the early stage yield. In case that your tech path ignores the Literature, it makes sense, otherwise, you have to pay later -- the extra beakers for Mediation and the extra GS to bulb Phi if you want to bulb the Astronomy line.

Mitchum · May 21, 2012, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckweed

I'm not sure the Mediation opening is a good move. Many people are overestimating the early stage yield. In case that your tech path ignores the Literature, it makes sense, otherwise, you have to pay later -- the extra beakers for Mediation and the extra GS to bulb Phi if you want to bulb the Astronomy line.

Well said. We (OSS), ended up having to research Poly at a later date AND we had to use an extra GS on Philosophy to buld Astro. During the opening, our biggest thought was getting Agriculture two turns sooner so that we could start our development.

We never seriously considered Agriculture first. While it would have been nice, it was too big a gamble. Lose the Hindu race and the game is over before it has really started...

justjohn · May 23, 2012, 07:38 AM

Team, I just wanted to say I enjoyed this game, and I hope I can play with you again, if you can live with my schedule sometimes getting full preventing me from participating as much as I want. I also think we handled this challenge quite well, even though we probably focused too much on war and too little on scouting and speading hinduism for a time there. Maybe we decided victory path too late. Still, well played everyone!

Gumbolt · May 23, 2012, 10:45 AM

You will be more than welcome back next game JJ. Maybe other players will also return next game too.

lymond · May 23, 2012, 12:06 PM

Way to go, Team Phoenix! Looking for to having you back, JJ. Your contributions were invaluable.

Kaitzilla · May 23, 2012, 11:30 PM

Congratulations on the Bronze Laurel!

bobbyboy29 · May 24, 2012, 01:29 AM

Great job to the whole team on a thoroughly deserved first laurel! This was an extremely testing game but we managed to push through and now in retrospect, we can see what a great game we played.

Here's hoping that this phoenix can rise even higher in SGOTM 16!

Mylene · Jun 01, 2012, 11:57 AM

/waves
Cos iam logged in already, i feel like...woohoooo 3rd place

See ya guys next game (hopefully soon!), and sorry Bobby about my demotivated post some weeks ago

All worked out fine, and we will only get better ~~

lymond · Jun 01, 2012, 01:18 PM

A My sighting!

Can't wait for the next on...Go PR! Keep Rising!

Gumbolt · Jun 01, 2012, 04:00 PM

It would not be pr without a bit of tension and drama. We are capable of great things as a team.

Looking forward to the next game too. We could probably use 1-2 more new or active old team members. If anyone is interested please post here or pm me.

justjohn · Jun 01, 2012, 10:21 PM

I hope I will find time to participate in the next SGOTM. Does anyone know when it will start?

May 21, 2012, 08:00 AM	#1941
lymond Synthetic Life Form Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 10,941	While you are basically correct, I don't think "choose religion" option was actually on. There are other things to consider by going Med. Poly opens Literature and Mono (OR and Theo), while Med can ruin certain bulb paths. I don't think the 2 turns saved initially make up for the turns lost teching a tech that can be avoided. It certainly did not help the Sporks any. __________________ "Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity." Christopher Morley lymond's YT Channel - Watch me play Civ4 poorly / CFC GameOftheMonth(GOTM) Page / CFC Hall of Fame(HOF): HOF Forum CFC HOF Site - play games that matter

May 21, 2012, 08:03 AM	#1943
neilmeister Lentils have feelings too Join Date: May 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 4,466	I thought the same thing myself, while the teams that did this (OSS & Sporks) got Hindu 2 turns earlier, they didn't have a useful pre-req tech. __________________ SGOTM 11, 12, 13 - T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't. SGOTM 14 & 15 - Mapmaker. SGOTM 16 & 17 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

May 21, 2012, 08:13 AM	#1944
Gumbolt Phoenix Rising Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: UK Posts: 10,801	It's also interesting how Maple used Ep to work out some Ai had met other AI. Useful tool I would of never thought of! We got Oracle T67. They lost the Oracle on T64. Perhaps we started it a few turns earlier? I wonder how close we were to losing it? That would of changed our game completely. __________________ My love for you civ 4 burns like a dying phoenix

May 21, 2012, 10:15 AM	#1947
Gumbolt Phoenix Rising Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: UK Posts: 10,801	We discovered agriculture on T21. On other games I think the Ai got the religion on T20. So maybe there was 1 turn in it with med! This assumes the Ai go straight for med/poly. Perhaps too risky. __________________ My love for you civ 4 burns like a dying phoenix

May 23, 2012, 10:45 AM	#1953
Gumbolt Phoenix Rising Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: UK Posts: 10,801	You will be more than welcome back next game JJ. Maybe other players will also return next game too. __________________ My love for you civ 4 burns like a dying phoenix

May 21, 2012, 10:22 PM	#1950
Duckweed Deity Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,465	I'm not sure the Mediation opening is a good move. Many people are overestimating the early stage yield. In case that your tech path ignores the Literature, it makes sense, otherwise, you have to pay later -- the extra beakers for Mediation and the extra GS to bulb Phi if you want to bulb the Astronomy line.

May 23, 2012, 07:38 AM	#1952
justjohn King Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Northern Europe Posts: 607	Team, I just wanted to say I enjoyed this game, and I hope I can play with you again, if you can live with my schedule sometimes getting full preventing me from participating as much as I want. I also think we handled this challenge quite well, even though we probably focused too much on war and too little on scouting and speading hinduism for a time there. Maybe we decided victory path too late. Still, well played everyone!

May 23, 2012, 12:06 PM	#1954
lymond Synthetic Life Form Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 10,941	Way to go, Team Phoenix! Looking for to having you back, JJ. Your contributions were invaluable. __________________ "Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity." Christopher Morley lymond's YT Channel - Watch me play Civ4 poorly / CFC GameOftheMonth(GOTM) Page / CFC Hall of Fame(HOF): HOF Forum CFC HOF Site - play games that matter

May 23, 2012, 11:30 PM	#1955
Kaitzilla Lord Croissant Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: America! Posts: 3,608	Congratulations on the Bronze Laurel!

May 24, 2012, 01:29 AM	#1956
bobbyboy29 I was saying boo-urns... Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,399 Images: 2	Great job to the whole team on a thoroughly deserved first laurel! This was an extremely testing game but we managed to push through and now in retrospect, we can see what a great game we played. Here's hoping that this phoenix can rise even higher in SGOTM 16! __________________ If you burn a wooden spoon, a phoenix will rise from the ashes!

Jun 01, 2012, 11:57 AM	#1957
Mylene Deity Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pangea Posts: 4,001	/waves Cos iam logged in already, i feel like...woohoooo 3rd place See ya guys next game (hopefully soon!), and sorry Bobby about my demotivated post some weeks ago All worked out fine, and we will only get better ~~

Jun 01, 2012, 01:18 PM	#1958
lymond Synthetic Life Form Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 10,941	A My sighting! Can't wait for the next on...Go PR! Keep Rising! __________________ "Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity." Christopher Morley lymond's YT Channel - Watch me play Civ4 poorly / CFC GameOftheMonth(GOTM) Page / CFC Hall of Fame(HOF): HOF Forum CFC HOF Site - play games that matter

Jun 01, 2012, 04:00 PM	#1959
Gumbolt Phoenix Rising Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: UK Posts: 10,801	It would not be pr without a bit of tension and drama. We are capable of great things as a team. Looking forward to the next game too. We could probably use 1-2 more new or active old team members. If anyone is interested please post here or pm me. __________________ My love for you civ 4 burns like a dying phoenix

Jun 01, 2012, 10:21 PM	#1960
justjohn King Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Northern Europe Posts: 607	I hope I will find time to participate in the next SGOTM. Does anyone know when it will start?

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