Player starting "balance"

[Alsannodor]

I can understand when a game with a poor AI gives computer players slight advantages over the human, but with Civ 2 there seems to be a different dilemma.

I'm sure everybody has noticed how every game has some players start off luckier than others - with two techs and settlers, one of each or with no tech at all. What's the deal with that? Doesn't that make the game unfairly imbalanced? Especially in multiplayer, where all sides are much more equally capable of managing their resources. I can see it as a roulette-like option to make the game more challenging or unpredictable, but even then it doesn't make much sense.

In Civ 1 some historically prominent civilisations started off with more techs and settlers and in Civ 2 it also seems to be based on either that or which colour they are, if I'm not mistaken.

In any case, is it possible to fix that somehow? Obviously, when duking it out against other peeps everybody can simply abide to house rules and disband their extra settler for fair play, but you can't erase additional techs. Or are some techs considered inferior to others and thus come in packs of two, to make up for it?

The open-source clone FreeCiv has the sort of customization I'm looking for, up to granting each civ a given number of random techs, setting what combination of units you begin with and even whether they're scattered about or not, but so-far it lacks hotseat, so I'm hoping to find a common language with the original game.

[Ali Ardavan]

My understanding is that the game gives civs an extra settler or starting techs to compensate for what it considers adverse starting location. If you start on a tiny island you will surely get an extra settler and quite a few starting techs. Proximity to other civs maybe a factor too.

This does not bother most players, but the obvious way to fix this in Civ2 is to play scenarios. That way you can control the starting set up (and more if you choose to). There is no other way in Civ2; however playing on larger maps and with fewer players reduces the chances of discrepancy among players.

[Alsannodor]

Originally Posted by Ali Ardavan

My understanding is that the game gives civs an extra settler or starting techs to compensate for what it considers adverse starting location. If you start on a tiny island you will surely get an extra settler and quite a few starting techs. Proximity to other civs maybe a factor too.

This does not bother most players, but the obvious way to fix this in Civ2 is to play scenarios. That way you can control the starting set up (and more if you choose to). There is no other way in Civ2; however playing on larger maps and with fewer players reduces the chances of discrepancy among players.

Just recently when I ran through a hotseat game on my own in Test of Time, one civ started with two techs surrounded by two bonus tiles and several grasslands with a "shield", while another started with none in the middle of a prairie (as in a lot of plains, some grassland and no bonuses), so I'm scepticle about how good a referee the generation phase is, but I'll take your word for it.

[Prof. Garfield]

Well, the AI is the one "judging" the quality of the start location, so it is not surprising that it would be crude at best.

The early game in Civ 2 has a fair amount of randomness. Hut outcomes and barbarians are also random, and in the early game can have a large impact on your civilization's progress.

You should probably, as Ali suggested, look into scenarios if you are concerned about having a fair start for each player. They can also be used to skip some of the early game. You can also simply use a custom map and fix starting locations.

[Ali Ardavan]

My understanding is that the game cares about the size and not the quality of the homeland. This understanding is based on intuition from having played many games; not rigorous testing.

[mpescatori]

My own two cents' worth.

I would like to find a way - an EASY way - to determine which civs/peeps are entitled to make which discoveries, while others can only acquire them by trading techs.

An example: it is utterly absurd that Vikings or Russians have Elephants (Politheism) before Indians or Carthaginians or Persians - who were the Civs which DID have access to those animals in the first place.

On the other hand, I would expect Vikings to achieve Map Making or Navigation before Zulus...

Suggestions ?

[Prof. Garfield]

You would have to make a scenario where certain technologies have a prerequisite that is only given to the civilizations that are allowed to discover the technologies in question. Just make sure that all civs can research future technology without having to trade for any techs.

Keep in mind that civ 2 isn't really meant to be "realistic" in the way that technologies are acquired by civilizations (or in a number of other ways).