C2C - Religions discussions and ideas

[strategyonly]

Gee i wonder where they got that idea from
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...0&postcount=29

[Il Principe]

Originally Posted by Dancing Hoskuld

It should cause the same amount of anarchy as changing civics, unless you are changing to your favorite religion.

I think it should actually cause anarchy dependent on your government and religious civics. A Despot or Faschist with free or state church should face less problems then one with a divine cult ( where the cult and by that the religion is kkeping him in power).
A democracy should face more problems then restrictive systems because you can´t simply force your subjects to embrace another religion. On the othr hand a divine cult is not as problemati in this case.

[ls612]

Originally Posted by strategyonly

Gee i wonder where they got that idea from
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...0&postcount=29

Well, in fairness, almost any religion founding method they could have chosen was made at some point as a Civ 4 mod. I think that they chose a DP-like setup becuase it was how religions started many times in history.

[Thunderbrd]

Originally Posted by strategyonly

Gee i wonder where they got that idea from
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...0&postcount=29

Yeah... I noticed that. I was quite happy to have beaten them to the punch. That said, there WAS a small mod done on a similar concept but while Prophets were used to found religions it was done in a very different way. You had to birth the Prophets by building from a selection of many minor Great Prophet pt earning structures that did little else but help to get a prophet and throw the rest of the sorts of GPs into near obsoletion. It also made the prophet build the shrine which would found the religion. I like my solution better but I still have some tweaks and improvements to work out. I'm proud to have brought it here so that it could help propel the forward thinking of this mod overall. Thanks for allowing me to join the team and contribute!

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I tried adding in the new Druid cutscene but my machine can't handle the graphics load so it is back to the originals.

[MrAzure]

are this included in c2c?

-Rastfarianism (Jamiaca)
-Norse
-Catholicism (Latin america, spain)
-Gnosticism
- Ayyavazhi (india)
-New Age
-Wicca
-Neopaganism

[CIVPlayer8]

Originally Posted by MrAzure

are this included in c2c?

-Rastfarianism (Jamiaca)
-Norse
-Catholicism (Latin america, spain)
-Gnosticism
- Ayyavazhi (india)
-New Age
-Wicca
-Neopaganism

-No
-Yes, Asatru
-No, not specifically. I don't know about adding this though, some feel it is too close to Christianity
-No, but see above
-Nope
-No
-We don't have specifically Wicca, but could this fall under Druidic Traditions?
-And lastly, no.

When you have Catholicism, what would the current religion "Christianity" represent?

[MrAzure]

Originally Posted by CIVPlayer8

-No
-Yes, Asatru
-No, not specifically. I don't know about adding this though, some feel it is too close to Christianity
-No, but see above
-Nope
-No
-We don't have specifically Wicca, but could this fall under Druidic Traditions?
-And lastly, no.

When you have Catholicism, what would the current religion "Christianity" represent?

this is Catholism....90% of Hispanics beleive n Catholism and its saints. They dnt read the bible, they read the Santa Biblia. The rituals, stories, and tradions are almost similar but different at the same time. For example they beleive in Dia de los Magos (day of the Magi), on january 6th and instead of santa claus its papa noel on christmas. The pope doesnt represent Christianity..he represents Catholicism aka the Roman Catholic Church.

Vatican City represents Catholism not Christianity..the England church represents Christianity.
One of the big differences is they beleive in Virgin Guadalupe instead of Virgin Mary.

[MrAzure]

..............

Catholicism is a broad term for the body of the Catholic faith, its theologies and doctrines, its liturgical, ethical, spiritual, and behavioral characteristics, as well as a religious people as a whole.[1][2]

For many the term usually refers to Christians and churches, western and eastern, in full communion with the Holy See, known alternatively as the Catholic Church or as the Roman Catholic Church.[3] However, many others use the term to refer to other churches with historical continuity from the first millennium.

In the sense of indicating historical continuity of faith and practice, the term "catholicism" is at times employed to mark a contrast to Protestantism, which tends to look solely to the Bible as interpreted on the principles of the 16th-century Protestant Reformation as its ultimate standard.[4] It was thus used by the Oxford Movement.[5]

According to Richard McBrien, Catholicism is distinguished from other forms of Christianity in its particular understanding and commitment to tradition, the sacraments, the mediation between God, communion, and the See of Rome.[1] According to Orthodox leaders like Bishop Kallistos Ware, the Orthodox Church has these things as well, though the primacy of the See of Rome is only honorific, showing non-jurisdictional respect for the Bishop of Rome as the "first among equals" and "Patriarch of the West".[6] Catholicism, according to McBrien's paradigm, includes a monastic life, religious institutes, a religious appreciation of the arts, a communal understanding of sin and redemption, and missionary activity.[7]

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Originally Posted by MrAzure

are this included in c2c?

-Rastfarianism (Jamiaca)
-Norse
-Catholicism (Latin america, spain)
-Gnosticism
- Ayyavazhi (india)
-New Age
-Wicca
-Neopaganism

In general we have all the ones that we have sufficient art for. The exception is that while we have enough art for some of the Christian "cults" like Catholicism and Protestantism they have not been included because no one was willing to spend the time and effort of helping me implement them as unique religions with wonders etc.

Originally Posted by CIVPlayer8

When you have Catholicism, what would the current religion "Christianity" represent?

The Christianity of Christ before the philosophers and politicians got on the bandwagon.

Edit Then there is the Hindu cult of Christ, which is "just" another in their pantheon.

[strategyonly]

Originally Posted by Dancing Hoskuld

The Christianity of Christ before the philosophers and politicians got on the bandwagon.

Oh my goodness, i am sooo thankful for those guys, coming out with the truth

Hawkings is a pure Genius.

[Mutasir]

While myself an atheist, but from the European country where the majority of population are Catholics (more or less on the same level as Spain) and being raised in the Catholic family I was astonished reading your post MrAzure. Living a cultural shock... from the other side

Catholics do not differentiate between "The Bible" and "Holy Bible" or "Holy Scripture" for that matter (they are just synonyms). Many holidays aren't celebrated worldwide, but rather on the country level. Spain actually gives a good example of local traditions, because it is one of the few countries were presents are NOT "given by Santa Claus".

And it isn't that Catholics believe in "Virgin Guadalupe" instead of "Virgin Mary". According to them it is just that the latter supposedly had tens and hundreds of revelations (yes, even in pieces of art) which are worshipped as unique manifestations of a single spiritual being.

Originally Posted by MrAzure

Vatican City represents Catholism not Christianity..the England church represents Christianity.

Err, because the Church of England trademarked it ?

What I am trying to say is that there is absolutely no sense in dividing Christianity into "smaller" religions. I know that for a person from another cultural circle Catholicism may look exotic and mysterious and stuff, but just no. Similarly, you could for example divide generic Buddhism into Theravada and Mahayana schools or Islam into Sunni and Shīa branchs but it really isn't worth it.

[Thunderbrd]

Originally Posted by Mutasir

What I am trying to say is that there is absolutely no sense in dividing Christianity into "smaller" religions. I know that for a person from another cultural circle Catholicism may look exotic and mysterious and stuff, but just no. Similarly, you could for example divide generic Buddhism into Theravada and Mahayana schools or Islam into Sunni and Shīa branchs but it really isn't worth it.

I'm glad you pointed out some of the things you did there as I was thinking about some similar points.

However, consider one of the purposes of religion in the game is the diplomatic angle. When you look at it from this perspective, a division of Christianity makes excellent sense, just as it does on your last example there in particular (Islam into Sunni and Shia.)

From a game mechanics and design point of view it may be a bit tough to implement the fractioning of faiths into various denominations. But for diplomatic purposes at least, it would certainly be worthwhile to consider. I'm pretty sure we don't have to go into historical detail on how many wars have been caused by these most bitter rivalries between factions within one given faith.

[DrCroccer]

Originally Posted by Thunderbrd

I'm glad you pointed out some of the things you did there as I was thinking about some similar points.

However, consider one of the purposes of religion in the game is the diplomatic angle. When you look at it from this perspective, a division of Christianity makes excellent sense, just as it does on your last example there in particular (Islam into Sunni and Shia.)

From a game mechanics and design point of view it may be a bit tough to implement the fractioning of faiths into various denominations. But for diplomatic purposes at least, it would certainly be worthwhile to consider. I'm pretty sure we don't have to go into historical detail on how many wars have been caused by these most bitter rivalries between factions within one given faith.

The problem is that you can't represent interfaith conflict effectively in the game. Dividing religions into different sects and branches just creates dozens of duplicate religions which is neither good for gameplay nor in any way realistic.

I'd say that you shouldn't do that. Maybe you could create some kind of building with which a civilization creates their own specific dogma of a religion or whatever, distancing themselves from 'orthodox' practicioners. This would create a boost for culture, happiness and science, but cause a hit to relations with other civilizations of the same religion. Maybe even a few new events in which you have interfaith 'synods' about important dogmas and you get to decide how to respond to that.

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Originally Posted by DrCroccer

The problem is that you can't represent interfaith conflict effectively in the game. Dividing religions into different sects and branches just creates dozens of duplicate religions which is neither good for gameplay nor in any way realistic.

I'd say that you shouldn't do that. Maybe you could create some kind of building with which a civilization creates their own specific dogma of a religion or whatever, distancing themselves from 'orthodox' practicioners. This would create a boost for culture, happiness and science, but cause a hit to relations with other civilizations of the same religion. Maybe even a few new events in which you have interfaith 'synods' about important dogmas and you get to decide how to respond to that.

Your basic idea is similar to what is in "The Faces of God" mod, an old one by Sevo. I am working on seeing if it can be merged with C2C.

[Kreatur]

Spain actually gives a good example of local traditions, because it is one of the few countries were presents are NOT "given by Santa Claus".

in germany presents were given by the Christ Child and in russia its Ded Moroz (Grandfather Frost)

[SargontheGreat2]

Excuse me, I am a Catholic, and believe that Catholisim is not its own religion, but Roman Chistianity, based on the organically teachings of Jesus. Everyone has a religious opionion, but Catholicism is a sect of Christanity

[MrAzure]

Originally Posted by SargontheGreat2

Excuse me, I am a Catholic, and believe that Catholisim is not its own religion, but Roman Chistianity, based on the organically teachings of Jesus. Everyone has a religious opionion, but Catholicism is a sect of Christanity

I am Catholic too, but its not going to be included in C2C.

[Mutasir]

@Kreatur - I was writing about countries where the majority of population are Catholics. In Russia most of the people are atheists or members of the Orthodox Church. That said, "it was believed" there that Santa Claus was giving children presents before the establishment of USSR (Grandfather Frost became something like a secular equivalent). In Germany presents are usually given twice a year, on the 5th of December (Saint Nicholas day) and on the 24th of December from Child Christ (in the case of Germany I had to ask my friend, but I am pretty sure with Russia).

[Kreatur]

then i was wrong with russia sorry. By the way i have heard that santa claus was an invetion of coca cola during early 20th century. is this right ore wrong cause i dont know