[Religion and Revolution]: Adding Another European Nation

[raystuttgart]

Very nice.

[Schmiddie]

Hi Folks,

The Danish Royal Army has entered the New World...

I have finished and uploaded the graphics for all Danish Troops.

Here are the Cuirassiers:



On the left: The Cuirassiers, on the right: Veterans

Feel free to test the graphics

[orlanth]

They look good as always!

I was going to add Danish ship names for RaR to the list from my Historic Ships modcomp, but I see it's actually not in the python CvEventManager.py, which I had thought it was because the ships appear with names. Is this done someplace else?

Spoiler:

Frederik Den Sjette
Valdemar
Dronning Marie
Danmark
Phoenix
Prinds Christian
Prinds Frederik
Prindsesse Caroline
Norge
Sejeren
Dannemark
Waldemar
Skjold
Tre Kroner
Kronprinsesse Maria
Neptunus
Odin
Sjaelland
Louisa Augusta
Nordstjernen
Arveprins Frederich
Fyen
Indfødsretten
Kronprins Frederich
Ditmarsken
Justitia
Prindsesse Sophie
Holsteen
Wagrien
Dannebrog
Elephanten
Christian Den Syvende
Vilhelmine
Øresund
Jylland

[Schmiddie]

Yes, it is in the CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml.

And I think it is already done

[raystuttgart]

Originally Posted by Schmiddie

Yes, it is in the CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml.

Yes, I had programmed this for TAC.
(It is DLL and XML.)

Originally Posted by Schmiddie

And I think it is already done

It is.

Originally Posted by Schmiddie

I have finished and uploaded the graphics for all Danish Troops.

Very nice.

[Schmiddie]

Today is Easter Monday...therefore I uploaded some Graphic Updates regarding Denmark and especially England...

Come and discover... Happy Easter!

[Michael Vick]

Originally Posted by raystuttgart

Hi guys,

topic has been discussed before, but I would like to pic up discussion again.

I would really like to have 6 European Nations in total.

Especially because I would like to have even numbers of both Religions for later Releases, when we integrate Religions: Protestants and Catholics as major feature.

I know that most of you would not like Prussia.
(It is not historically correct considering Northern and Southern America, I know.)

I also would not like to do Russia because Russia was Orthodox, which does not fit to Protestant.
(A 3rd Religion would make things unnecessarily complicated. Please let us not do that.)

Sweden would theoretically be possible, but their time of Colonization of the New World was incredibly short and unsuccessful.

I suggest Denmark.
(Historically correct and Protestant. Both criterias fullfilled. Compared to Sweden, they were much more successful. )

Then we would have:

Catholics: Spain, Portugal, France
Protestants: Holland, England, Denmark

See here, I think, it would fit.
(Denmark had Greenland and even a Colony in the Caribbean for a while.)

People don't like Denmark exactly because of its nature as such a minor player in the New World. Those people are mainly fans of a "historic game", the ones that don't usually play on random maps, etc. I'm one of those, and while I definitely support the inclusion of Denmark in the mod, like Gomer_Pyle, I will probably keep Denmark out of my custom game.

I just don't want to see a big Danish colonial empire with a lot of cities that compares itself to the other main colonial empires. That is the reason why I don't want to put Denmark in my game, but I'm still glad that the decision was made to have them anyway just for all those that do want Denmark.

I wanted to suggest maybe including an option here for players that feel the same way as Gomer and I; What about say, in the custom game menu, having the option of including Denmark as a "one city challenge" civ? That would be ideal for the historic minded players, who don't want to see a big Danish Empire, but would appreciate the accuracy and historic flavor of having one Danish island in the Caribbean.

[raystuttgart]

Originally Posted by Michael Vick

I wanted to suggest maybe including an option here for players that feel the same way as Gomer and I; What about say, in the custom game menu, having the option of including Denmark as a "one city challenge" civ ?

Definite No to this.

[raystuttgart]

@team:

I am currently checking our old discussions and concept and I would like to ask this again:

Should we add more Major European Nations, than the current 6 we have ?
(In a later Release. Maybe Release 2.)

---------------

Reasons for me to ask this again:

1. I am currently pretty sure that we will never implement the concept of Minor European Civs / European Latecomers we once discussed.
(Efforts and risks of that concept are simply too high.)

2. There were several team members in favour of having even more European Nations.
(... but also some that were against.)

3. We would not have discussions / questions about "Could you not also add Nation X ?" that often.

4. Everybody who does not like to play with these Civs could simply deactivate them in "Custom Game".

---------------

I could imagine to also implement Sweden and Russia for example.

Both were Colonial Nations, so from a historical point, they would be ok to my opinion.

We would need to introduce a third Religion (Orthodox) for Russia, once we implement our Religion concepts, but I guess that would not add too much additional work.
It is probably also no real problem to have a distribution of Religions (across the Nations) that is a little unbalanced.
(So instead of 3 Catholics and 3 Protestants, we could also have 3 Catholics, 1 Orthodox and 4 Protestants.)

The biggest part of the work for adding more European Nations is to create the UnitArtStyles and Flags.
(Graphics for Leaderheads we could probably find.)

Without a graphical modder interested and available we could not add these new Nations anyways.
(At least not with the necessary quality.)

---------------

Just think about it.

[Androrc the Orc]

I believe Sweden is a better choice than Russia as a colonial power. The reason for that is that New Sweden was actually a settler colony (which is what colonies mostly represent in Civ4Col), while Russian America was, as far as I know, a series of trading posts and forts, and didn't have a significant amount of Russian settlers.

As the mechanics of the game are, Russian America would almost necessarily be getting a large quantity of settlers.

As such, I feel rather more enthusiastic about the addition of New Sweden and think that is the one that is more deserving of focus. Flags for New Sweden already exist, and anyhow flags are easy to make; I imagine many Swedish units have been made for Civilization 4 which could be used as UnitArtStyles. I'm not as confident about the leaderhead, but I imagine there is something that fits, too.

About the imbalance between catholic and protestant nations, I think that's solvable by enforcing a religious balance between randomly chosen nations. While we can't alter the random nation choice (it's in the EXE, not the DLL), the enforcement of the balance could be achieved by transforming the "imbalancer" into a nation, that is unused in that game, of the other religion, right after game initiation.

[raystuttgart]

Originally Posted by Androrc the Orc

I believe Sweden is a better choice than Russia as a colonial power.

Yes, I think so too.

But it does not necessarily mean, that we need to stop after having added Sweden.
Of course however, we would go one nation after the other.

Originally Posted by Androrc the Orc

Flags for New Sweden already exist ...

True.

Originally Posted by Androrc the Orc

I imagine many Swedish units have been made for Civilization 4 which could be used as UnitArtStyles. I'm not as confident about the leaderhead, but I imagine there is something that fits, too.

If we want to add Sweden (or any other new Civ), we have to do it in the same quality as we did with the other Civs.
(Some units from CivForum download base will not suffice.)

We will need to find a graphical modder to create:

• UnitArtStyles for Land Units
• UnitArtStyles for Ships

Without a talented graphical modder being available and interested there will not be any more Civs in this mod ...

Originally Posted by Androrc the Orc

About the imbalance between catholic and protestant nations, ...

As I said, I don't think that some small imbalance considering amounts of Catholic and Protestant nations is problematic.

Also, if we add Sweden (Protestant) we could also add Scotland (Catholic) later on ...

I don't think we will really get into problems here.

---------------

Currently I just want to find out the following:
Does the team generally want to add more European Nations or not ?

[colonialfan]

I'm not opposed to adding another European civ, but the choice is quite limited now. The two best contenders are Sweden and Russia. One had colonies in North America for about twenty years and colonies in the Caribbean after the WOI, the other did not have a colony in North America until after the WOI. (see post #26) If I had to pick one, I would go for Sweden, but after that it would be my preference to stop with the European civs. We already have numerous native civs and I fear adding more civs to a limited size map might make things very crowded.

Also, Scotland during the timeframe of the game was largely Presbytarian (Protestant).

If the team decides for adding another civ, I'll start collecting all the needed bio and historical info.

[Schmiddie]

Hm, I could agree with Sweden and (maybe) Russia, but I would prefer not to add further civs (Scotland).

If we add a further nation, this will cause 1) a lot of graphic work 2) further balancing (e.g. founding father of this nation).

We should postpone thoughts about further nations after a Release 2 or 3....

[raystuttgart]

So ok, from the feedback I think, that we will probably include Sweden as next European Civ.

After Release 1:

colonialfan could start collecting the bios.
(Leaders, Generals, Cities, ...)

Also, we will need to collect good Leaderheads (2 colonial leaders + king).

Whenever Schmiddie signals that he is interested and got some time for the graphical part, we can start implementing.

But there is absolutely no need to hurry this.

[Robert Surcouf]

Originally Posted by Schmiddie

Hm, I could agree with Sweden and (maybe) Russia, but I would prefer not to add further civs (Scotland).

If we add a further nation, this will cause 1) a lot of graphic work 2) further balancing (e.g. founding father of this nation).

We should postpone thoughts about further nations after a Release 2 or 3....

I must say I agree... I don't know about adding new nations.
Why not? But I'd rather wait and see what our release 1 looks like.

[raystuttgart]

Originally Posted by Robert Surcouf

But I'd rather wait and see what our release 1 looks like.

Exactly.
We all agree, that adding another European Nation (Sweden) will not be a topic for Release 1.

[raystuttgart]

@colonialfan:
Could you start collecting the data needed for Sweden ?
(Leaders, Generals, Cities, Ships, ...)

I believe, after Release 1.2, this could be one of the first topics we could include.
(It is a nice addition to my opinion and it is relatively uncritical.)

[Shoobs]

In this discussion I am for Russia, hands down. We need a eastern power settling in the west of "America" so as to make the game play significantly more dynamic. Annd since you are against actual Eastern powers other than Russia.... Maybe you can make them have a "late" start? /shrug

I am not, however, for Sweden as Sweden is far too close to Denmark in terms of actual goals and culture ( England, France, Portugal, Spain, Dutch and Denmark are all fairly and significantly different ).

[raystuttgart]

Originally Posted by Shoobs

In this discussion I am for Russia, hands down.
...
I am not, however, for Sweden ...

The team has already agreed to introduce Sweden.
(And don't worry, they will be different to Denmark considering gameplay.)

At one point we might also introduce Russia.

[Shoobs]

Originally Posted by raystuttgart

The team has already agreed to introduce Sweden.
(And don't worry, they will be different to Denmark considering gameplay.)

At one point we might also introduce Russia.

My apologies, did not see how far the times changed in regards to the last post and the one previous.