American War of Independence - Page 2

techumseh · Feb 13, 2011, 10:06 AM

I'm not sure what the difference between a playtest version and a final version that will be updated based on the comments of people who play it, is exactly, but I'll go along.

It's a solid scenario, fun to play and your best yet. Units are superb, as is the art and map generally. After the first year, the action is steady and interesting. I'm playing as the Americans in my second game. It's August, 1778 and I've just about defeated the British, moving on New York from north and south.

Here are my suggestions for your final final version.

1. Roads. Weren't there a few more roads, esp. in New England? I don't really know, just wondering.

2. Leaders. Leaders are too weak and too slow. I lost George Washington again when he attacked a single British regular unit and lost. They should move as cavalry.

3. Artillery capture. The artillery capture event is unrealistic and makes the Americans unstoppable as the human player. By July 1778 I had 88 artillery units. The next turn, including French reinforcements, I had 106 artillery units. I'm just blasting my way up the coast, from Philadephia to New York.

Since colonial cannon production was almost non-existant, the capture event makes sense. However it needs to be dialed back considerably. I suggest that you use the 'RandomTurn' trigger to limit it to a 1 in 3 chance, and cut the number of reinforcement cannon the Americans receive in half as well. Also you could use the 'Defender Only' modifier so that attacking British cannon are not captured.

4. The South. The south is boring for the first half of the game. I know it's based on the historical British strategy, but it lets the 13 Colonies move their entire army north until 1779. It would be more realistic if the American player didn't know when the British were actually coming, or where. More random loyalist action in the south would add to the fun, too.

Full-scale British intervention in the south depends in a couple of cases on capturing Charles Town and Savannah. These attacks are weak and can be easily stopped by the Americans, so the British don't get the reinforcements from capturing these cities. Would it be possible to strenghten the British attacks on Charles Town and Savannah?

5. The French. All French units actually belong to the 13 colonies. Why does the French civilization even exist?

Where is the French Navy? It was the loss of of naval superiority that cost the British the Battle of Yorktown, and ultimately the war. I think you could do a lot more with the naval side of the scenario, including adding river transport. And please, massively increase the movement of naval units.

6. Delayed Events. You have 41 delayed events. Each delay adds 284 bytes to the events, but you only have only 1773 bytes left, so that's only 6 delay events that have to be simultaneously triggered for some events to stop working.

You could economize on the delayed events for Ft. Ticonderoga if you used a single delay event trigger a flag, and the flag trigger the rest of the 'CreateUnit' events. You can also get a one turn delay by giving the attacker a new technology and using that as the trigger for your actual event.

7. Historical Simulation. This game tends toward a historical simulation in that all events are based exactly on what happened historically. It's a valid approach, but it limits strategic options and thus replay value. In "Operation Market-Garden", I used multiple events files with different reinforcement events for the Germans, so the British player didn't know where the counter-attacks were going to come from. When you begin the scenario, the program randomly selects one of the events files and loads it. It might work here, but obviously only if you make separate scenario versions for both the British and Americans.

That's it for now. On to New York! Liberty or Death!

techumseh · Feb 14, 2011, 11:57 AM

It's now May of 1779, and I have re-captured all the British cities in the thirteen colonies. However British infantry and artillery units appear each turn on Long Island, next to New York. Also some ships of the line are spawned every turn near NYC. I gather this is because events have given the Brits tech #39 (Battle of New York). Unless you use the 'JustOnce' modifier, using a tech as a trigger means the event reoccurs every turn. Is this what you want?

I assume that once the British have been expelled from the colonies, they would make peace, and vice-versa. Why not use the city control flags to end the game if one side or the other control all the flagged cities after a set turn, say in 1777? Anyway, I'm ending my game and declaring victory for the 13 colonies. Good work, I'll look forward to the final final version.

civ2units · Feb 14, 2011, 01:37 PM

Thanks a much for playing a campaign with the Americans.

Even though it´s the final version I see now that there are also some things which should be fixed or changed.

Unfortunatelly it´s very hard to create a historical accurate scenario and also making it funny and interesting for those who are knowing the historical facts. Because you are knowing what happened 250 years ago you had the possibility to prepare and fortify your cities until the British invasions starts.

On the other way it´s just the challenge to create such a scenario. I´m working on it and I hope I will finaly upload a perfect scenario some day.

I´m wasting too much event memory with needless entries. I should really think more economically.

I think starting the game in April 1775 doesn´t make sense as the main action starts over 12 turns later. Also I should include the Canada Invasion as it was in 1775 when the scenario starts in 1775.

However I think I will change the starting game in July 1776, with the Declaration of Independence. The New York campaign immediatelly at the beginning of the scenario marks the start of battles throughout the whole colonies

Interesting idea with the multiple events which you use in your "Market Garden" scenario. There will be definatelly two seperate scenarios (British and Americans) so I can use it.

How did you manage that the game automaticaly loads one of the event files at the start of the game?

Naval movement rates are increased. Leader units are also made stronger. Artillery spawning is disabled. I can´t believe that you´re controlling over 88 Artillery units. That´s definitely too much Artillery for this scenario.

France is only included as a Civ because I had enabled trading in the first playtest version.

I´m afraid that France declares war an you if the French units are controlled by the French Civ. You never know what the AI intends to do.

The New York units spawning should only work until the British conquers the city. After conquering the city the tech will be removed. It seems that the tech will brought back to the Brits after you liberated the city. A big bug which should be eliminated.

The British king accepts your victory

civ2units · Feb 14, 2011, 01:41 PM

Beside my American Independence War scenario I always had in mind to create a typically Civ2 game with a complete new tech tree, government switching and building an empire during the Napoleonic Wars.

I think this time period would be very interesting to use for such a scenario.

techumseh · Feb 14, 2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by civ2units

Thanks a much for playing a campaign with the Americans.

No problem. It was fun.

Quote:

I´m wasting too much event memory with needless entries. I should really think more economically.

I think you could cut some of it. Text messages take a lot of memory. You also have unnecessary duplication, eg. a flag action with every event triggered by the capture of a specific city - sometimes 6 or more events. You only need to attach it to one.

Quote:

I think starting the game in April 1775 doesn´t make sense as the main action starts over 12 turns later. Also I should include the Canada Invasion as it was in 1775 when the scenario starts in 1775.

However I think I will change the starting game in July 1776, with the Declaration of Independence. The New York campaign immediatelly at the beginning of the scenario marks the start of battles throughout the whole colonies.

I wouldn't start from scratch with a new map - you've put too much work into this. If you let people know the first few turns will be uneventful in the ReadMe, then it won't be a problem. But you do need a Readme for the final, final version.

Quote:

Interesting idea with the multiple events which you use in your "Market Garden" scenario. There will be definatelly two seperate scenarios (British and Americans) so I can use it.

How did you manage that the game automaticaly loads one of the event files at the start of the game?

This was a feature added with Fantastic Worlds. It was used in the Jules Verne scenario. You can vary the scn., txt., rules, and events files - perhaps some others, I forget. I couldn't find the reference in the manuals, perhaps it was in a scenario tip somewhere. Does anyone know where to find it?

Quote:

France is only included as a Civ because I had enabled trading in the first playtest version.

I´m afraid that France declares war an you if the French units are controlled by the French Civ. You never know what the AI intends to do.

Here's an idea. Use the French civ for the French navy. Keep the French army under the control of the Americans. There was little US influence on the French navy, and cooperation was sporadic. Variable events for both navies could produce unpredictable shifts in the control of the sea.

Quote:

The British king accepts your victory

Thank you, you tyrant. Sign the treaty.

Catfish · Feb 14, 2011, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techumseh

You also have unnecessary duplication, eg. a flag action with every event triggered by the capture of a specific city - sometimes 6 or more events. You only need to attach it to one.

I saw those when I checked his events in the other thread. They're unnecessary, but they don't affect stack space. Flags are stored as bitmasks within each 284-byte event block; in this case, tribe names are not stored as strings.

civ2units · Feb 16, 2011, 11:37 AM

I won´t make a new scenario from scratch as it is too much work to include the Canadian campaign. I will start the scenario in 1776, immediatelly after the Declaration of Independence.

This was also my idea, to give the French Civ all naval units and all French land units still controlled by the Americans. This should work fine.

I´ve looked at my old game cd´s and found the Fantastic World Disc. In the Jules Verne scenario some text files have as file format the ending ".ALT". I´m not sure what it means but I think it´s like you mentioned; That the game choose one of the different .ALT files when starting the scenario.

You´ve also used this in your Market Garden scenario.

I also noticed on Boco`s El Aurens scenario, that he made many changes on the Game.txt file. It would be great if he or someone else could explain, what is possible and how it works.

I think I go away from the fixed historical timeline and trying to make a more different scenario with the focus on different strategies to win the war.

For example JPetroski used a unit Munition (Air unit) and a Baggage Train (which has the flag "Can carry air units") as a Artillery unit. I like the idea and think it could also works on my scenario.

There will still some Light Artillery units available but for conquering cities with garrison units you needs a Artillery Train (or how it was called, I will check this)

I didn´t know the modifier "DefenderOnly". Good thing I will use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by techumseh

Thank you, you tyrant. Sign the treaty.

Yes Sir, but be sure that we will come back in twenty years and burning your Capital.

Cyrion · Feb 16, 2011, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by civ2units

For example JPetroski used a unit Munition (Air unit) and a Baggage Train (which has the flag "Can carry air units") as a Artillery unit. I like the idea and think it could also works on my scenario.

But be cautious: the AI is fully unable to use that kind of combo: it's for human player only!

micha6162 · Jun 07, 2012, 01:58 PM

Hello,
need help . I want to create a "American war of independence " mod for the game
"People General and Fairlines Icons are perfect for this. But i cant found him. Does anyone have its icons ?

Fairline · Jun 13, 2012, 10:56 AM

Micha: I have sent a reply to your and Robert's e-mail. I'd be happy to help as and when I get back into modding

civ2units · Jun 16, 2012, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micha6162

Hello,
need help . I want to create a "American war of independence " mod for the game
"People General and Fairlines Icons are perfect for this. But i cant found him. Does anyone have its icons ?

Maybe I can help you. Here you can find Fairlines AWI units:

American War of Independence Units

I´ve also modded the units a little bit, created special troops or regiments including their historical regimental flags. If you wish I can put them together and posting them here.

I´ve also modded the American CIvilwar units for getting state troops, regimental troops and special troops for a Western and an Eastern Theater.

I´m still working on these scenarios but I don´t have much time. So I don´t know when I will release them here.

Fairline · Jun 18, 2012, 12:49 PM

Hi c2u, good to see you

Micha is after People's General icons for an AWI campaign he's making rather than ToT units

civ2units · Jun 23, 2012, 09:28 AM

Oh, I don´t know how the People´s General icons are working.

Btw, me too, it´s great to see you back again here.

Are you currently working on some nice gfx updates?

I´m still working on my two big projects Revolutionary War and Civil War. Unfortunatelly time is very rare at the moment for finishing the scenarios.

Fairline · Jun 26, 2012, 11:09 AM

Thanks. Good to see you all again. I've not drawn anything for a year; it was partially realising this that made me want to pop back in to see what was going on.

Don't worry about the PeG icons - I've drawn them. There will me a mod for PeG-Napoleonic some time in the future with campaigns for both Brits and Yanks, so I'll keep you posted.

civ2units · Jun 27, 2012, 03:02 PM

Here are some American special troops which I modded a little bit including their historical regimental flags. Maybe they are useful for your PeG project.

I also made some special troops including thier regimental flags for Britain and France. If you wish I can upload them too the next days.

I´ve also tried to create some Native units, especially Cherokee and Shawnee Indians. But I can´t do this, painting new units are too difficult for me.

Fairline · Jun 28, 2012, 03:08 PM

Very nice flags, Seb. Unfortunately, PeG doesn't use icon flags, but they'll look great in ToT.

Jun 27, 2012, 03:02 PM	#35
civ2units Warlord Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 105	Here are some American special troops which I modded a little bit including their historical regimental flags. Maybe they are useful for your PeG project. I also made some special troops including thier regimental flags for Britain and France. If you wish I can upload them too the next days. I´ve also tried to create some Native units, especially Cherokee and Shawnee Indians. But I can´t do this, painting new units are too difficult for me. Attached Thumbnails

Feb 13, 2011, 10:06 AM	#21
techumseh Prince Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in the frozen north Posts: 303	I'm not sure what the difference between a playtest version and a final version that will be updated based on the comments of people who play it, is exactly, but I'll go along. It's a solid scenario, fun to play and your best yet. Units are superb, as is the art and map generally. After the first year, the action is steady and interesting. I'm playing as the Americans in my second game. It's August, 1778 and I've just about defeated the British, moving on New York from north and south. Here are my suggestions for your final final version. 1. Roads. Weren't there a few more roads, esp. in New England? I don't really know, just wondering. 2. Leaders. Leaders are too weak and too slow. I lost George Washington again when he attacked a single British regular unit and lost. They should move as cavalry. 3. Artillery capture. The artillery capture event is unrealistic and makes the Americans unstoppable as the human player. By July 1778 I had 88 artillery units. The next turn, including French reinforcements, I had 106 artillery units. I'm just blasting my way up the coast, from Philadephia to New York. Since colonial cannon production was almost non-existant, the capture event makes sense. However it needs to be dialed back considerably. I suggest that you use the 'RandomTurn' trigger to limit it to a 1 in 3 chance, and cut the number of reinforcement cannon the Americans receive in half as well. Also you could use the 'Defender Only' modifier so that attacking British cannon are not captured. 4. The South. The south is boring for the first half of the game. I know it's based on the historical British strategy, but it lets the 13 Colonies move their entire army north until 1779. It would be more realistic if the American player didn't know when the British were actually coming, or where. More random loyalist action in the south would add to the fun, too. Full-scale British intervention in the south depends in a couple of cases on capturing Charles Town and Savannah. These attacks are weak and can be easily stopped by the Americans, so the British don't get the reinforcements from capturing these cities. Would it be possible to strenghten the British attacks on Charles Town and Savannah? 5. The French. All French units actually belong to the 13 colonies. Why does the French civilization even exist? Where is the French Navy? It was the loss of of naval superiority that cost the British the Battle of Yorktown, and ultimately the war. I think you could do a lot more with the naval side of the scenario, including adding river transport. And please, massively increase the movement of naval units. 6. Delayed Events. You have 41 delayed events. Each delay adds 284 bytes to the events, but you only have only 1773 bytes left, so that's only 6 delay events that have to be simultaneously triggered for some events to stop working. You could economize on the delayed events for Ft. Ticonderoga if you used a single delay event trigger a flag, and the flag trigger the rest of the 'CreateUnit' events. You can also get a one turn delay by giving the attacker a new technology and using that as the trigger for your actual event. 7. Historical Simulation. This game tends toward a historical simulation in that all events are based exactly on what happened historically. It's a valid approach, but it limits strategic options and thus replay value. In "Operation Market-Garden", I used multiple events files with different reinforcement events for the Germans, so the British player didn't know where the counter-attacks were going to come from. When you begin the scenario, the program randomly selects one of the events files and loads it. It might work here, but obviously only if you make separate scenario versions for both the British and Americans. That's it for now. On to New York! Liberty or Death!

Feb 14, 2011, 11:57 AM	#22
techumseh Prince Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in the frozen north Posts: 303	It's now May of 1779, and I have re-captured all the British cities in the thirteen colonies. However British infantry and artillery units appear each turn on Long Island, next to New York. Also some ships of the line are spawned every turn near NYC. I gather this is because events have given the Brits tech #39 (Battle of New York). Unless you use the 'JustOnce' modifier, using a tech as a trigger means the event reoccurs every turn. Is this what you want? I assume that once the British have been expelled from the colonies, they would make peace, and vice-versa. Why not use the city control flags to end the game if one side or the other control all the flagged cities after a set turn, say in 1777? Anyway, I'm ending my game and declaring victory for the 13 colonies. Good work, I'll look forward to the final final version.

Feb 14, 2011, 01:37 PM	#23
civ2units Warlord Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 105	Thanks a much for playing a campaign with the Americans. Even though it´s the final version I see now that there are also some things which should be fixed or changed. Unfortunatelly it´s very hard to create a historical accurate scenario and also making it funny and interesting for those who are knowing the historical facts. Because you are knowing what happened 250 years ago you had the possibility to prepare and fortify your cities until the British invasions starts. On the other way it´s just the challenge to create such a scenario. I´m working on it and I hope I will finaly upload a perfect scenario some day. I´m wasting too much event memory with needless entries. I should really think more economically. I think starting the game in April 1775 doesn´t make sense as the main action starts over 12 turns later. Also I should include the Canada Invasion as it was in 1775 when the scenario starts in 1775. However I think I will change the starting game in July 1776, with the Declaration of Independence. The New York campaign immediatelly at the beginning of the scenario marks the start of battles throughout the whole colonies Interesting idea with the multiple events which you use in your "Market Garden" scenario. There will be definatelly two seperate scenarios (British and Americans) so I can use it. How did you manage that the game automaticaly loads one of the event files at the start of the game? Naval movement rates are increased. Leader units are also made stronger. Artillery spawning is disabled. I can´t believe that you´re controlling over 88 Artillery units. That´s definitely too much Artillery for this scenario. France is only included as a Civ because I had enabled trading in the first playtest version. I´m afraid that France declares war an you if the French units are controlled by the French Civ. You never know what the AI intends to do. The New York units spawning should only work until the British conquers the city. After conquering the city the tech will be removed. It seems that the tech will brought back to the Brits after you liberated the city. A big bug which should be eliminated. The British king accepts your victory

Feb 14, 2011, 01:41 PM	#24
civ2units Warlord Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 105	Beside my American Independence War scenario I always had in mind to create a typically Civ2 game with a complete new tech tree, government switching and building an empire during the Napoleonic Wars. I think this time period would be very interesting to use for such a scenario.

Jun 07, 2012, 01:58 PM	#29
micha6162 Chieftain Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1	Hello, need help . I want to create a "American war of independence " mod for the game "People General and Fairlines Icons are perfect for this. But i cant found him. Does anyone have its icons ?

Jun 13, 2012, 10:56 AM	#30
Fairline Warlord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: UK Posts: 290	Micha: I have sent a reply to your and Robert's e-mail. I'd be happy to help as and when I get back into modding

Jun 18, 2012, 12:49 PM	#32
Fairline Warlord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: UK Posts: 290	Hi c2u, good to see you Micha is after People's General icons for an AWI campaign he's making rather than ToT units

Jun 23, 2012, 09:28 AM	#33
civ2units Warlord Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 105	Oh, I don´t know how the People´s General icons are working. Btw, me too, it´s great to see you back again here. Are you currently working on some nice gfx updates? I´m still working on my two big projects Revolutionary War and Civil War. Unfortunatelly time is very rare at the moment for finishing the scenarios.

Jun 26, 2012, 11:09 AM	#34
Fairline Warlord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: UK Posts: 290	Thanks. Good to see you all again. I've not drawn anything for a year; it was partially realising this that made me want to pop back in to see what was going on. Don't worry about the PeG icons - I've drawn them. There will me a mod for PeG-Napoleonic some time in the future with campaigns for both Brits and Yanks, so I'll keep you posted.

Jun 28, 2012, 03:08 PM	#36
Fairline Warlord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: UK Posts: 290	Very nice flags, Seb. Unfortunately, PeG doesn't use icon flags, but they'll look great in ToT.

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