RSG5 Emperor 20K

[Verarde]

lurker's comment: I like the black dot for now.

[splunge the 2nd]

The black dot works. I have a settler pair on the pink dot hill. Maybe the third will go east

[CKS]

I'm good with black and pink. For the third, I like blue.

I'm okay either way about restarting. I think this game is plenty winnable, but if it'd be more fun for everyone else to try again, that's fine.

[splunge the 2nd]

OK, turn 8. We have the necessary cities for the FP. Pyongyang is 10 away from the GL and switching wastes 52 shields. It's making 24 SPT, wasting 9 to corruption. We're cash poor. We can switch, wasting shileds, but get less corruption and take the oppurtunity to pop rush a library then start the GL all over, rejoining workers up to 12 or finish the GL and do it the other way.

Saving and quitting for the night.

[Spoonwood]

If you do restart, and still want to use the 2nd city instead of the 1st city (which I'm not sure I think best at this level even with max opponents), put the 2nd city at CxC or CxxC spacing from the capital and give the 2nd city the food bonuses. I've played plenty of (Sid) 20k games where I've had the city at CxC spacing from the capital and it has worked well.

I second del62's suggestion to turn huts off.

[splunge the 2nd]

Well I finished the turn set. Still winnable, I hope.

Spoiler:

Turn 81
Workers work. Start settler towards hills near Agustodorum. Not a great site, but allows CxxC, is defensible, inhibits spread of Celts into our hegemony without pressuring their cultural borders. Workers work. Exploring warrior triggers barbs from barb hut. Science to 40, lit in 1.


Turn 82
Barb dies on warrior, no loss. Barb knocks 1 health off of warrior then dies, warrrior promotes.
Learn Lit, Republic in with research at 70.
Change Pyongyang to GL in 17,Wonsan to library in 14
Warriros explore, workers work.

Turn 83
Seoul settler>library in 5
Namp'o Barracks>library in 14 but forest chop in 1 turn
Cheju warrior>worker
Settler heads SE.
Workers work and warriors explore.

Turn 84
Found Ulson on hills by Augustodorum, starts warrior
Workers work and warriors explore.
Sumeria and Ottomans are at war. Sumeria and Celts have horseback riding, we have lit monopoly. Sumeria has 2 slaves for sale. Tempting, but tehy want our full trasury for 1 or lit for 2 and can't risk the GL, especially if we plan the FP first.

Turn 85
Osman asks our exploring warrior to leave. We agree and move further into their territory.
Warrior kills barb in our territory.
Turn up lux to avoid riots in Pyongyang. Head warrior for 3rd MP, forgetting for the moment the 2 MP limit (oops)

Turn 86
OSman insists we move our warrior or it's war. We apologize.
Pusan settler>library (we can cahnge that if we're going no research with GL)
Hyangsan worker>worker
Settler heads to hills south by Cheju and Honsan and second settler heads to river on eastern border.

Turn 87
Cheju's not growing so change from worker to warrior (done in 1) and move it's warrior to site of hill city, meeting settler.

Turn 88
Gilgamesh gives us the boot.
Seoul library>rax (4)
Cheju warrior worker (5 and grow in 5)
Volcano blows killing a barb village!
Found In'chon warrior

Turn 89
Gilgamesh REALLY wants us out. We agree.
Found Pyongsang.
Switch Pyongyang to FP wasting 52 shields (ouch!)
Warriors explore. Gems at the south of pangea.
Move warrior from Namso to Seoul to avoid riot.
Celts and Sumerians know Republic and already know mapmaking. I trade mapmaking to Ottomans for horsebackriding and 2 gold (their whole treasury) before they learn it from someone else.

Turn 90
Pyongyang builds FP. Starts library in 2. To rush would cost 4 citizens and the associated unhappiness. Build it naturally. It now produces 21 uncorrupted shields per turn.
Workers work and warriors explore.

Odd thought. If we're starving for culture and really want to kill corruption, we could abandon Seoul and palace hop to our 20K city. It'd mean abandoning a large productive city, losing the benefit (other than culture and OCN) of the FP but I'd like folks' thoughts.
We could use some galleys at sea to meet the remaining civs, especially if we plan a no research, GL strategy. We ahve forests in the tiles of Pyongyang, if we time it, we could chop to help build colliseum rather than need to pop or cash rush.

If we decide to restart, I think I'll play it out on my own and let you guys know the outcome.

[CKS]

We might want to jump the palace later, but right now it loses us the palace prebuild, which is the only reason for using a second city. 21 uncorrupted shields puts us in a good spot for building things.

While it hurts to see those 52 shields wasted, we've now got an extra 5-6 shields per turn, so we get them back very quickly.

Generally, no research with the GL doesn't get us the techs we need quickly enough. What we'll want to do is research as quickly as we can to theology, then printing press, then education, then to free artistry. We hope that we pick up some techs from the lower branch along the way (that's why we go education after printing press). We want to check the timing before starting printing press, though, because learning education about the time we finish a wonder lets us slot in a university right away. If the timing works out better doing education before printing press, we want to do that, even though we may lose out on some free techs.

[Raliuven]

Well, it may be time to vote if we continue the game or not. It may not be a stellar win but I don't like to drop a game. I will, however, abide by the group decision; I'll probably play this one to the end and post it later just for 'fun'.

I'm going to list the votes I think we have at this moment, correct me if I am wrong.

Raliuven (Keep)
CKS (???)
splunge the 2nd (???)
Elephantium (Restart)
Toxicman007 (MIA) (???)
TheOverseer74 (Restart)

Verarde, since Toxic is MIA do you want to fill his slot? Even if he returns we can always add another player.

I think we have two solid Restarts and I think that CKS is okay with either. I don't know that splunge has given a definate answer. It seems the strongest voice is for a restart. Maybe if we restart we can add Verarde to our roster.

If we restart I'll generate a new game. Take what we get? I'll wait for everyone to check in, until we reach a majority or 48 hours.

[CKS]

My vote is to continue on, but whichever we do is okay.

[Toxicman007]

Now that I'm back, I vote for a restart.

[splunge the 2nd]

I'm for continuing. I learn anytime I play.

By the way, I'm now day 6 without electricity at home (no fridge, lights, AC, cooking and especially no civ) and no releif in sight. If any fo you is an electric lineworker, feel free to stop by!

[TheOverseer714]

Where are you at? I know the hard core outages are slowly getting fixed, but 6 days? Yeesh! This heat has been murderous, I feel bad for you. I'll think cool thoughts your way...

[splunge the 2nd]

Got it back Thursday afternoon thank heaven.
I'm in NW suburban Baltimore

Anyone playing?

[TheOverseer714]

Let's see how things play out, This is winnable, just barely. Been doing some fast 20K games, Sumeria is very good in a decent start. I am finding Capital city 20K works better, I'd love to test the the beginning save of this game that way. I'll check to see if the 4000 BC save is posted.

[Raliuven]

Here is the 4000BC save.

It looks like a vote did not good. We are three for continuing and three for starting over. Without a clear mandate I say we stay the course and play. Perhaps the next few turnsets will change opinions one way or the other.

Just out of curiousity, why is it barely winnable? We just won't have the time to build up all the culture we need? Or is it just that it will be a long game?

**Sorry, can't upload it again - it is Start 4 from post #21. **

[TheOverseer714]

I think we may win it around the last 100 turns, so it will be a close call. 20K games need tons of early culture, which we lack. In a private game, I had Colossus, Oracle and GLib and still was an 1840 win. So lots and lots of turns, which can really drag.

[Raliuven]

I had to go back an look to see who is up:

Roster
Raliuven
CKS
splunge the 2nd (just played)
Elephantium (Playing)
Toxicman007 (on deck)
TheOverseer74 (waiting)

Elephantium it looks like you are up if I counted correctly.

[Elephantium]

I'm up?

D'oh!

I'll need a skip. Sorry I didn't say so sooner. I should have kept better track of the roster.

[Raliuven]

No problem. I think we were in limbo for a while on the vote. I know that Toxicman007 was supposed to be back yesterday so it would be to him.

Roster
Raliuven (waiting)
CKS
splunge the 2nd (just played)
Elephantium (skip)
Toxicman007 (Playing)
TheOverseer74 (on deck)

[Toxicman007]

I can play this evening or something.