Korea (G&K) - how should I play it?

[Yamian]

1) Key techs. What should I get first? Thould I beeline to Education for RAs?

2) Policies. The UA kinda suggests I should go for Freedom/Rationalism, but that's later in the game, should I rush it? Or should I start with something else (Tradition/Liberty)?

3) Wonders. PT seems quite straightforward. Anything else I should get?

4) What to do with Great Scientists? Settle or bulb key techs (to get important wonders/units)?

5) Are the UU any good? I'm kinda sceptical...

[Putmalk]

Get catapults, upgrade to Hwach'a. Enjoy one shotting cities. :/

No seriously, that is broken right now, the Hwach'a aren't supposed to get +200% from cities but they do when you upgrade them. You'll win any conquest using that strategy. xD

[Civologist]

I would rush HG use extra population to become citizens(+2 bpt each), plus you get a free garden in your capital. I would go down to tradition policy branch to facility a high food yield to support running specialists. I would then settle all your great scientists. After HG go for science buildings library/nc/oracle/pt...go for freedom finisher. While rushing HG build some archers for defense since its on the tech path. I used this to win diety science game in vanilla. HG is nerfed slightly but tradition is more powerful now and academies are much better.

[bhavv]

Tradition / Liberty / Rationalism / Freedom is the best for Korea, and if going for Culture add either Commerce or Patronage on top.

For religion, cathedrals give you an extra specialist slot, guruship adds 2 while working a specialist, and then everything else is up to you. I like the +20% combat near your own cities finisher which makes your UUs when more powerful defenders, tithe is also very strong when going tall, and for the pantheon if none of the tile boosting ones are going to help a lot then the +2 per trade route is very nice - work just a single specialist and you get +4 science, +2 production per city early on, plus more once you have secularism and start filling more specialist slots.

Look for high food city locations and go tall, after the right side of freedom and statue of liberty are combined, you can fill every specialist slot for insane BPT. In the early - mid game focus on getting at least 4 size 20+ cities to enable this. 1600-1700 AD is a good target date for right side of freedom, statue of lib and several huge cities ready to run in full specialist mode - and seeing 6 turns for future tech in 1700 AD is just lulz.

Oh yea, and it goes without saying - farm and settle great scientists around your capital, and try to get a mountainside capital too for an observatory. Unfortunately my multiple GP popping exploit from vanilla got fixed in G&Ks, so I can't have around 30 settled GPs for Korea anymore

[Khadroth]

I can't beat Tithe in my current Korea game. It's pretty much the whole reason I've been able to hold off early DoW's from Nappy and Wu while still maintaining a strong economy. Luckily I've been able to spread Taoism to not only all 4 adjacent city states (putting nice pressure on Monty's Buddhism) but also to Nappy now since he's failed to even found a pantheon.

Still can't get over my start either, got quite possibly the best imaginable.

Coastal city in the desert with a river flowing long-wise through my territory. 2 Cottons, Marble, and a 6 iron, the only thing it's missing is a mountain for the observatory, but I have that covered with my 2nd and 3rd cities (my 4th is surrounded by jungle, two rivers and gems, can't wait to slap trading posts down there). Nabbed GLib and Petra extremely fast. Only problems were I missed out on the food growth pantheon bonus since I took Desert Folklore, and my neighbors refuse to sign DoFs for RAs.

[Yamian]

Originally Posted by Putmalk

Get catapults, upgrade to Hwach'a. Enjoy one shotting cities. :/

No seriously, that is broken right now, the Hwach'a aren't supposed to get +200% from cities but they do when you upgrade them. You'll win any conquest using that strategy. xD

I thought you were exaggerating so I tried that... It's ridiculous... 199 damage... I was like WTF? Well... 26 + 200% = 78 meaning it's slightly weaker than artillery (28 + 200% = 84).

Anyway, if you want to fix that (make backup just in case you mess something up):
1) open assets\DLC\Expansion\Gameplay\XML\Units\ CIV5UnitPromotions.xml (without space) in notepad (or similar program).
2) find PROMOTION_CITY_SIEGE and look a few lines down
3) add line <LostWithUpgrade>true</LostWithUpgrade> above <IconAtlas>ABILITY_ATLAS</IconAtlas>
4) close and save

If you want to fix -1 visibility (hwach'a's inherit it from the catapults as well), search for PROMOTION_SIGHT_PENALTY instead (it's about 4 "blocks" up from city siege) and add the same line.

As usual, you are making those changes at your own risk and I'm not responsible if something gets broken.

[PAo_ReVoLT]

does korea get any special ability on RA?

[ifinnem]

Yeah you wanna grow tall with Korea and micro the boosts from their RAs to speed you on to Education quickly. You can get them to +200 bpt by turn 150 with only a few cities

GL is the best Wonder since it gives the UA boost but thats only something to do on Emperor or lower.

[PAo_ReVoLT]

Originally Posted by ifinnem

Yeah you wanna grow tall with Korea and micro the boosts from their RAs to speed you on to Education quickly. You can get them to +200 bpt by turn 150 with only a few cities

GL is the best Wonder since it gives the UA boost but thats only something to do on Emperor or lower.

so what exact ability of the korea is relate to the RA?

i thought they get a tech boost when construct building and wonder?

[Syntax Error]

RA is now based on your own bpt. If you have massive bpt, RA's get you more techs, sooner.

[GAGA Extrem]

My Korea strategy:
(OCC, culture victory, emperor)

Research:
writing -> (mining) -> mathematics -> theology -> education -> acoustics -> architecture -> metal casting -> machinery -> scientific theory -> electricity -> archeology -> radio -> plastics

Build order:
monument -> worker -> Great Library -> Hanging Gardens

SPs:
tradition -> aristocracy -> legalism -> monarchy or landed elite -> landed elite or monarchy -> oligarchy

The GL is more or less a key building for Korea, because of your UA you will get 2(?) free RA when it is finished PLUS a free tech PLUS a free library. I usually use that free tech to unlock Drama to get a free amphitheatre and hire an artist.

[ifinnem]

Originally Posted by PAo_ReVoLT

so what exact ability of the korea is relate to the RA?

i thought they get a tech boost when construct building and wonder?

Sorry I meant to say UA boosts - that still works like the vanilla RAs, ie median tech based when you build GL, Library, Uni, Oxford, PS and RL in the captial.
On lower levels you want to build the library then sell it and build GL for extra boost.

[ifinnem]

Originally Posted by GAGA Extrem

My Korea strategy:
(OCC, culture victory, emperor)

Research:
writing -> (mining) -> mathematics -> theology -> education -> acoustics -> architecture -> metal casting -> machinery -> scientific theory -> electricity -> archeology -> radio -> plastics

Build order:
monument -> worker -> Great Library -> Hanging Gardens

SPs:
tradition -> aristocracy -> legalism -> monarchy or landed elite -> landed elite or monarchy -> oligarchy

The GL is more or less a key building for Korea, because of your UA you will get 2(?) free RA when it is finished PLUS a free tech PLUS a free library. I usually use that free tech to unlock Drama to get a free amphitheatre and hire an artist.

HG is now kinda meh if you ask me, esp for Korea where you aren't really going Maths early otherwise. Its a lot of for 6 which you can get from a granary, CS allies etc.
I'd prefer to head straight for education and get those unis going. You can use HA or CBs for defense quite safely

[GAGA Extrem]

Originally Posted by ifinnem

HG is now kinda meh if you ask me, esp for Korea where you aren't really going Maths early otherwise. [...]

(1) 6 food = free specialists or hammers
(2) Free Garden = nice when using the early amphitheatre, great when not settled next to a river
(3) HG + granary + water mill + tradition % food bonus = nice

I agree that the HG are by no means a "must have" wonder, but I think Korea can afford to tech for them, thanks to the RA beakers from the GL. And for OCC, it is one of the two wonders (the other would be Petra) that can turn a horrible starting location in a decent one. That said, I usually skip the HG if I have a food rich starting locations (I remember a game with 6 wheat ).

[ifinnem]

Originally Posted by GAGA Extrem

(1) 6 food = free specialists or hammers
(2) Free Garden = nice when using the early amphitheatre, great when not settled next to a river
(3) HG + granary + water mill + tradition % food bonus = nice

I agree that the HG are by no means a "must have" wonder, but I think Korea can afford to tech for them, thanks to the RA beakers from the GL. And for OCC, it is one of the two wonders (the other would be Petra) that can turn a horrible starting location in a decent one. That said, I usually skip the HG if I have a food rich starting locations (I remember a game with 6 wheat ).

Yeah it can help a bad situation and is useful but I'm saying at that stage the opportunity cost is usually not worth it.

On your point 1, think of it this way
You spend like 20 turns building it during which time you get no benefit (compared to several smaller builds like military, settlers etc) and then even if you had 3 mines to work which you a) probably don't and b) probably won't as you'll grow, the hammers are not free until you paid off the investment which is another 30+turns.

That's 50 turns after you started building it, a long time in the early game... Also the extra specialists won't kick in till you have the slots, again a delayed benefit.

It would be interesting to compare Korea empires at T100, 150, 200 with or without the HG

[GAGA Extrem]

Originally Posted by GAGA Extrem

(OCC, culture victory, emperor)

You must have overlooked this little part. With OCC you need neither settlers, nor units.
If you plan to settle more cities, the HG is obviously not for you.

[Hambil]

If you go math early or late doesn't really matter much, as it's all part of the techs needed for Education. You will need it eventually. I personally haven't been slowed down in the long run by my experimenting with getting ToA and HG when I want to really push city growth. Of course, it's harder to get them the higher the difficulty level, and they can derail religion more than tech so watch that carefully.

[zyx]

Originally Posted by GAGA Extrem

The GL is more or less a key building for Korea, because of your UA you will get 2(?) free RA when it is finished PLUS a free tech PLUS a free library. I usually use that free tech to unlock Drama to get a free amphitheatre and hire an artist.

IIRC Korea doesn't get a RA free RA for the GL, only for the (free) library. At least in vanilla it was that way. Now that your output depends on your own bpt, I doubt that the free RA is that great. But okay, techs are cheap at this point.

[bhavv]

I think that Hanging Gardens has the most synergy with Korea. It still supports 3 extra specialists plus a free garden on top.