[BTS] Like a Sir!

[pigswill]

Sorry, slightly enigmatic there perhaps. Stalin had a settler/archer on the same tile as our settler, we had a one turn advantage so settled there first. Otherwise Stalin would have got the copper city and would almost certainly be spamming axes instead of archers.

In terms of Orlean's placement. First point is that it has copper in the first ring, having a resource in the second ring can mean that an AI can settle 3 tiles from your city and get the resource in its first ring and its a pain trying to get the resource back. Second point is that Orleans is on the same river as Paris: instant trade route allows Paris to build axes asap. The role of Orleans is essentially to get copper online asap to stomp Stalin asap. Its not a great long term city but that's not its strategic function.

[vranasm]

after you're finished with stalin don't forget to build settler for the capital cottages to grow and spam cottages in area where the helper city will be (north)

you have enough land for 6 cities, problem here is which cities will be cultural. aside from capital they don't seem to have enough oomph.

Even the capital of stalin is crap (shouldn't AI capitals be always good?? maybe Cam got his answer why Stalin is usually sad face)

as for techs...put Alpha as placeholder and just accumulate gold until you finished Stalin and built your first library in capital. Then you reevaluate

Put espionage into HRE or India. Zara could be good option too, but would prefer either of HRE/India. India maybe a bit better.

open borders with HRE asap and cross fingers for his mish and adopt Budh.

Col for conf could be good target, but am afraid India/HRE will go there too. It's 2k BC you go into war, no time for oracling it and you probably would lose the race anyway.

Concentrate on Tao instead and cross fingers for 2 religions from AI.

Don't see many high food cities to run tons of GA's...look for 2-3 food bonus city somewhere and acquire it soon.

[woopdeedoo]

I don't like the pink spot. It grabs the horse but you lose the crabs out on the water. I keep Moscow where it is and settle 1E of the horses on the hill. Seriously.

The yellow filler proposed in post 29 can also help the cap work cottages on the floodplains, even though it loses out the fish and we can really get things going!

With regard getting an army up, yeah, chop chop the forests and use the two pop whip where you can. Let's take that sucker down!

[astre]

question: why alphabet when oracle is still to be built.
I'd go for priesthood asap to try to catch this wonder. (by polyteism of cource for litterature)

we are aiming for cultural, the major key points for cultural victory come from 3 factors: great artist production, religion and comerce production.

we need to catch as many religions as possible in our borders. Do we want to found some religions ?

[vranasm]

Originally Posted by astre

question: why alphabet when oracle is still to be built.

you will most probably miss out on it... 5 axes ~ 1 oracle. It's already 2k BC... on Monarch expect the date cca 1000-1200 BC, that means like 20 turns from now on?

[pigswill]

I did think about Oracle but I reckoned that if we were prioritising stomping Stalin we'd be too busy building axes. Religion is certinly a consideration. We could go alph>curr>CoL and hope CoL doesn't get Oracled by someone else. On the other hand that would delay aesthetics>music line which is another basic element of cultural.

edit: another option to consider could be to start PH line now, slow build axes until PH is in then Paris swop to Oracle with a few chops. It would delay the attack on Stalin and make it tougher (thus requiring more axes in the long run) but its certainly an alternative.

[astre]

we will need polyteism and the IA never trade for polyteism until all his wonder are built.
I propose we go for it intead of alphabet and decide at his point if we continue for priesthood or not.

for oracle cost, remember that we are industious and that marble is only 2 tiles away from our border.

[woopdeedoo]

I like math>currency>CoL (assuming it doesn't get Oracled). On the keeping/razing of cities, I would keep them both. We can get a decent cluster of cities going with FPs and Hills all over the place.

[Verarde]

Thanks for the discussion, everybody! Helps me out a lot!

I think I shall go with Mathematics>Currency>Code of Laws for the chopping, the money, and (hopefully) the religion. I shall keep Moscow and St. Petersburg, aim for that spot 1E of the horses, and that yellow filler spot once Stalin is taken care of.

Whip and chop, here we go! 10+ axes on their way!

[woopdeedoo]

Good Luck

[Verarde]

Oh, one more thing I want to ask. Shall I build Barracks in our cities for the XP?

[·Imhotep·]

Tough decision. City Raider increases the odds considerably, but a Barracks is expensive if you are not Agg. Thus it slows down the rush considerably. I'd go without and just use sheer numbers. If we could spare two workers - which we don't have - then we could use roads for a proper attack and cut the time for reinforcing to 1 turn. But one can't have everything. Just stomp him old style!

[astre]

I say barrack if possible.
it even the probabilities for a dierct attack.
without it, it is only 25% chance hit :/

[vranasm]

ask yourself if the barracks will spare you 1.8 axes in the war against stalin, depending on cultural it can or very likely not...so the question is attack date.

better attack date you get without barracks.

I usually count for each archer 2 axes, 1 suicide, 2 mop up. sometimes you get lucky, sometimes unlucky.

It's monarch you will probably face 3-4 archers. Watch for "Staling switched to slavery" message, that one is totally crucial.

[chessplaya]

lurker's comment:
Looks like a great start! Good luck on that axe rush!

A couple questions:
1. Are you allowed to beg for tech/gold? I didn't see a rule prohibiting it, but to me it seems out of character, and a cheesy way to avoid a war. (although demanding tech/gold would be fine IMO)
2. Wouldn't yellow dot be better 1E (fish+hills)? Esp. if you also settle 1E of the horse (same dotmap). Or what am I missing?

[pigswill]

Can't beg/demand gold before currency iirc.

On the subject of city placement we shouldn't be thinking about any cities north of Moscow at the moment, we're better off grabbing a chunk in the middle and backfill the north later on. However there's a Jo waiting to be rushed and that'll keep us busy for the next set or two.

[woopdeedoo]

IMO we should get out the axes ASAP. We can get a barracks up after Stalin has been crushed. We will probably need more that 10 axes as I seem to recall counting 7 archers?

[woopdeedoo]

Originally Posted by chessplaya

A couple questions:
1. Are you allowed to beg for tech/gold? I didn't see a rule prohibiting it, but to me it seems out of character, and a cheesy way to avoid a war. (although demanding tech/gold would be fine IMO)

I would say only with AI's who are "on good terms" with us, ie. higher than "Cautious".

Originally Posted by chessplaya

2. Wouldn't yellow dot be better 1E (fish+hills)? Esp. if you also settle 1E of the horse (same dotmap). Or what am I missing?

IMO that city would be ok to get the fish but I don't like the hectic overlap with our capital.

[Verarde]

Originally Posted by woopdeedoo

IMO that city would be ok to get the fish but I don't like the hectic overlap with our capital.

Yeah, the overlap is a bit much. Even with its current location the overlap is already high, but I'll flow with it.

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I'll be playing today.

[Verarde]

Turn Set Report -- 2000 BC - 1400 BC


Pre-Turn - 2000 BC
Switch research to Mathematics @ 19 turns. 45 gold @ -1gpt.


IBT
Tacitus lets us know that out of seven civilizations total, we are the least advanced. Luckily, Stalin is number six.

Turn 1 - 1960 BC
Orleans: Axeman -> Axeman

IBT
Nada.

Turn 2 - 1920 BC
The Great Wall is built somewhere else.

IBT
Charlemagne offers us Open Borders. I accept.

Turn 3 - 1880 BC
I note that Stalin has another archer. That makes seven total. Five in and around Moscow, two in St. Petersburg.

IBT
Nada.

Turn 4 - 1840 BC
Paris: Axeman -> Axeman

IBT
Nada.


Turn 5 - 1800 BC
Stalin has Archer #8.
Whip an axeman in Paris.

IBT
Nada.

Turn 6 - 1760 BC
Paris: Axeman -> Axeman
Orleans: Axeman -> Axeman

IBT
Zara Yaqob offers us Open Borders. I accept.

Turn 7 - 1720 BC
A chop yields us
Paris: Axeman -> Axeman

IBT
Nada.

Turn 8 - 1680 BC
Nothin' goes down.

IBT
Nada.

Turn 9 - 1640 BC
Nothing.

IBT
Nada.

Turn 10 - 1600 BC
Paris: Axeman -> Axeman

IBT
Nada.
Stalin now has nine archers.

Turn 11 - 1560 BC
Chop nets us another axeman.
Paris: Axeman -> Axeman
I dial research back to 90% so that we stop losing money so fast. Mathematics due in 7 turns, with us having 28 gold losing 2 gpt.

IBT
Nada.

Turn 12 - 1520 BC
Nothing happens.

IBT
Nada.

Turn 13 - 1480 BC
Orleans: Axeman -> Axeman

IBT
Nada.

Turn 14 - 1440 BC
I whip another axeman in Orleans.

IBT
Nada.

Turn 15 - 1400 BC
Nothing happens, except a chop sets up another axeman to be ready next turn in Paris.


I had the Paris worker chopping the entire time. Had the Orleans worker cottage one flood plains, then begin roading to Paris for quicker transportation.

Stalin has nine visible archers. He is also taking one to the northwest with a Settler.

Holy Rome is Cautious.
Ethiopia is Pleased.
India is Cautious.
Russia is Cautious.

Mathematics is due in 3 turns. We have 18 gold @ -4 gpt. We may want to dial back research after Mathematics.

We have 10 axeman stationed in Orleans. We will definitely want more. A lot more.

And a screenshot of our situation:



The red circle is the Russian archer/settler combo. The green circle is the roading worker. The blue circle is the chopping worker.

And the save.