RBW4 - It's a scary world out there

[Methos]

The world is a scary place and safety only lies at home.

Civ4 Version: Warlords
Difficulty: Monarch
Victory Condition: Domination
Team Civ: Mao (China) [Expansive/Protective]
Game Speed: Normal
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Pangaea
Variant Rules:

• Can never declare war, therefore can never sign DP or PA.
• Military units cannot leave our cultural borders. The only exception to this is when escorting a settler to its designated settle site.
• We cannot attack across our borders. In other words, we cannot attack a city that is adjacent to our borders.
• Must win through domination.

Our starting position:

As you can probably guess, this game is going to be won through culture. Remember, due to the variant rules our starting warrior must return to the settler.

Roster:

• Methos
• Kodii
• Bede
• KMadCandy Official Lurker
• 3Amoor
• sunrise089
• Mutineer

[Kodii]

Signing in

Early health, happiness, food and production looks very tasty. If we want the game to be less painful, we should probably beeline for the religions and maybe take the Oracle in the process.

[3Amoor]

Interesting start and rules , would like to play it.

[dawn]

What difficulty level?

[Methos]

Originally Posted by 3Amoor

Interesting start and rules , would like to play it.

First off, welcome to CFC!

Secondly, welcome to the SG.

Originally Posted by dawn

What difficulty level?

Monarch

Edit: Whoops, forgot to add the difficulty level. OP edited.

[berserks01]

Crap. I would like a spot to improve my culture victories, but my plate's kinda full. Guess I'll just lurk this one then.

[3Amoor]

Thanks Methos , this SGs looks as a pretty fun way of playing the game .

[Methos]

Originally Posted by berserks01

I would like a spot to improve my culture victories.

Just to clarify, we are going for a domination victory, not culture. We are merely using culture to achieve a domination victory. Also realize that we have to do so without attaining a culture victory. Should be interesting.

Originally Posted by berserks01

Guess I'll just lurk this one then.

Feel free to join in on the discussions.

[Methos]

Here's what I was thinking when I came up with this idea and feel free to argue against it. My idea was to use the Pyramids (Representation), Caste System (CoL), and a SE to achieve domination. We'll need the artist specialist to help push our borders and the extra from the specialist (SE/Representation) would help keep us up research wise. I can't see using cottages much, unless its in our capitol. All the artist specialist will help generate great artist, which we can use to culture bomb certain locations to help push our borders.

Originally Posted by Kodii

Early health, happiness, food and production looks very tasty. If we want the game to be less painful, we should probably beeline for the religions and maybe take the Oracle in the process.

What are our chances at getting one of the early religions? Due to the terrain and lack of Sailing we won't be able to work any tiles that grant us additional . So I'm unsure if we'll be able to compete with any AI's that start with Mysticism. I realize we need religion(s) to win this game. I'm just unsure it would be wise to go for the early ones at such a disadvantage.

Another question is where do we wish to settle? I'm inclined to take our starting position.

[KMadCandy]

interesting start. marble is great for a bunch of culture wonders to collect GAs. and a panama canal location even! i don't know if the land goes far enough for that to matter but it might be very nifty for defending sea food/exploring territory etc. almost no production tho. oh that corn might not be irrigatable either, i can't tell if that's a freshwater lake to the SW or not, but no rivers anywhere. your starting techs are mining and agriculture i think?

this'll be fun! i'm quite honored to be an official lurker, thank you for that

[sunrise089]

I have a few thought....

1) I really was tempted to think about signing up. I however decided one culturally themed SG was enough at the time, plus Kodii has had to put up with me in two games, and that's probably enough.

2) Outstanding early capital....mediocre late capital (but you will probably run Free Speech rather than Beaurocracy anyways. Too bad you aren't financial for all those water tiles.

3) Love that Blue Marble!

4) I would say you 100% need to go for the religions - it's on the Oracle path, and you do NOT want a nearby holy city if you can help it. I know it isn't guaranteed, but I would definitely still be trying.

EDIT: 4.5) You lucked out either way with that left body of water - either you have irragated corn, or a canal capital, which I don't think I've ever had. Too bad it isn't really a game type to make much use of a canal

5) I assume you have read Sulla's always peace culture game and the RB29 threads....are you sure this is winnable? The more I think about the fact that you can't attack tiles, plus the fact that you are on Monarch....seems rough. I'm just not sure how to handle an AI putting a large garrison in a border city. This game might be a textbook example of how effective/ineffective AI on AI wars can be.

Good luck guys!

[3Amoor]

Of course we would be running a SE system for the reasons u said earlier , its very hard to discover an early religion but i guess we can get Judism.

[Bede]

Checking in. Let's look around the neighborhood a bit before committing to a plan.

I like where the settler sits right now, as it gives a nice mix of land and water tiles and unless my grid eyeballs are out of sync with the terrain those are nice coastal flounder and not ocean cod hiding in Georges Bank.

[Kodii]

Since the game:

- is not Always Peace
- does not have handpicked AIs
- is on Monarch
- cannot attack the AIs

This game is definitely going to be a tough one (if not impossible). If I'm not mistaken, it is impossible to flip a city with a certain number of troops in it. Take a look at this regarding Hamburg.

As far as I know, nobody has attempted to win a game like this using an early specialist economy, so let's see how this unfolds. I'd still like to go for some religions though. Perhaps:

Mysticism -> Polytheism -> Masonry -> Judaism -> Priesthood

With things in between as necessary.

[Kodii]

Originally Posted by sunrise089

1) I really was tempted to think about signing up. I however decided one culturally themed SG was enough at the time, plus Kodii has had to put up with me in two games, and that's probably enough.

Oh, I've played more than 2 SGs with another person before. Plus, I don't get sick of people like you. Others however...

[Methos]

Originally Posted by KMadCandy

i'm quite honored to be an official lurker, thank you for that

No problem. Looking forward to your input.

Originally Posted by sunrise089

1) I really was tempted to think about signing up. I however decided one culturally themed SG was enough at the time, plus Kodii has had to put up with me in two games, and that's probably enough.

You're welcome to join in, as either a player or a lurker.

Originally Posted by sunrise089

2) Outstanding early capital....mediocre late capital

We can always jump the capitol later. I typically don't, but this game we might want to.

Originally Posted by sunrise089

4) I would say you 100% need to go for the religions - it's on the Oracle path, and you do NOT want a nearby holy city if you can help it. I know it isn't guaranteed, but I would definitely still be trying.

I see both of your alls points and I'm inclined to agree with you. Originally I had thought of shooting for Writing (OB) and CoL (Confused), the problem is that could take too long. Hinduism then? I believe we have the best chance at it.

Originally Posted by sunrise089

5) ....are you sure this is winnable? The more I think about the fact that you can't attack tiles, plus the fact that you are on Monarch....seems rough. I'm just not sure how to handle an AI putting a large garrison in a border city.

The game wouldn't be worth playing if it was going to be easy. Plus, it wouldn't be worthy of carrying the title 'RB'. BTW sunrise, I hope you stick around and take part in the discussion.

Originally Posted by 3Amoor

Of course we would be running a SE system for the reasons u said earlier , its very hard to discover an early religion but i guess we can get Judism.

If we miss out on Hinduism (or Buddhism, whichever one we go for), Judaism will hopefully be our plan B.

Originally Posted by Bede

Checking in. Let's look around the neighborhood a bit before committing to a plan.

Remember, due to the variant rules the starting warrior has to stick with the settler. Once our capitol is founded he can't leave our cultural borders. If we wish to scout the surrounding land, we'll need scouts to do it.

Originally Posted by Bede

I like where the settler sits right now, as it gives a nice mix of land and water tiles and unless my grid eyeballs are out of sync with the terrain those are nice coastal flounder and not ocean cod hiding in Georges Bank.

Seems like everyone is okay with settling in place, or at least I haven't heard anyone speak against it.

Originally Posted by Kodii

This game is definitely going to be a tough one (if not impossible). If I'm not mistaken, it is impossible to flip a city with a certain number of troops in it.

Again, what fun is it to play a game that your fairly positive your going to win? I admit, this is going to be tough and I've added to it to make it even harder, but it's sure going to be fun IMO. Hopefully we're all up to the challenge (and that includes are lurkers).

[Methos]

Originally Posted by Kodii

Oh, I've played more than 2 SGs with another person before. Plus, I don't get sick of people like you. Others however...

You're welcome to join in sunrise. It sounds like you have some excellent ideas! For now I'll add sunrise as an official lurker and hope he makes the jump.
Edit: If sunrise089 takes the bait, er...signs up, we've got ourselves a team. Otherwise, we need one more.

[Jerrymander]

Too bad you aren't playing as Qin, although Mao is my second favorite leader. (<3 Qin) The Oracle would be easy picking, as would the Great Library. :\
I would sign up, but I'll be without my computer for a month.
Good luck.

[Kodii]

Methos' plan for a SE works very nicely with going for religions. I suggest attempting to get Hinduism, then Judaism. Masonry comes along the way, allowing for the Pyramids and marble. Then, we can take Priesthood for the Oracle. As the Oracle is building, we can take filler techs and Writing, then take CoL with the Oracle. If we pop a prophet from the Oracle, we can use it to lightbulb Theology, and we'll be on a roll.

[Mutineer]

On monarch, hmm... If I undestand correctly unit protecting settler must stay with settler? and can not ligth the way? So, no fog busting? I am not sure this warriant is posible, because this rule will make for very slow moving settler, preventing initial land grab. I would suggest to permit unit to enter neitral land, as I do not see how it could be bad for intent of variant. Otherwize, exploring is imposible, unless you got religion and got missionary or use settler /worker for explore?

Well, variant seems does not pronhibit to intice AI figth each other, but it seems to pronhibit gifting of units...., because you have to enter an other civ borders in order to gift unit.

On a bright side, one seems can accept vassal, and as I did show in my games one does not need to take cities in order to convince civ to vassal to you.

I wander, Game conside Vassal cultural border allmost the same as your's. Does it mean that mil units can enter vassal cultural borders?

To be true, with out exploration and initial land grab I do not see it winnable.
Is scout a military unit?